Study Permit Refusal with family (SOWP and TRV) and 10 years study gap

[conestogaapplicant]

Hello all,

I would like to hear your thoughts about my refusal.

My study permit application refused on 24 March 2021. I applied as a family for 3 people at the same time with the same application for my wife SOWP and for my child TRV. Looks like 4 pages detailed Study plan did not work for approval. I believed my profile is strong since I hold 2 US visas and had lived in the US for 1,5 year.

I ordered the GCMS notes for the whole family on 25 March and still waiting for it. I want to reapply but not sure how to address the refusal reasons. I had applied through a licensed RCIC Consultant for my first application.

These days, I heard many families with SOWP got rejected for this “Limited employment prospects” reason.

My GPA is 2.59 out of 4 and can not afford MBA which costs 50k. I think to reapply with Conestoga College again because I paid to the first-semester fee already. Changing college will take time and I don’t want to wait 2-3 months.

Should I change course? I guess changing the course is not good for the second application. My goal is to combine 2 courses for 1 year and get 3 years of PGWP.

APPLICATION 18 JANUARY 2021
BIOMETRIC COMPLETED 22 JANUARY 2021
BVL 24 MARCH 2021
REFUSAL 24 MARCH 2021

GCMS ORDERED 25 MARCH 2021 (still waiting)

My profile is

Conestoga College – Project Management (1-year post-graduate May 2021)
Non-SDS
Age 35 with 10 years study gap
2-year Tourism and Travel Management College degree and 4-year Business Administration Bachelor degree
No employment gap for the last 10 years.
Working in the hospitality and travel industry as an Assistant Operations Manager for the same company for the last 4 years.
Express Entry expired on April 2021. (It was active when I applied)
Funds – over the minimum for 3 people - accounts under my & my wife's names
Showed property and vehicle under my name
IELTS – 6,5 overall (L8 / R6,5/ W6/6)

• I am not satisfied that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay, as stipulated in subsection 216(1) of the IRPR, based on your family ties in Canada and in your country of residence.

I have no ties to Canada. My parents live in the same city with me and mentioned them they need my care in SOP. Showed property and vehicle under my name

• I am not satisfied that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay, as stipulated in subsection 216(1) of the IRPR, based on the purpose of your visit.

I know MBA would be better for career progression but applied for an Post Grad diploma and mentioned in SOP as how it would benefit me

• I am not satisfied that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay, as stipulated in subsection 216(1) of the IRPR, based on the limited employment prospects in your country of residence.

I have no significant employment gap for the last 11-12 years. But I did not show an employment letter from my current company that says they will hire me after my studies. Will that work?

 

[Naturgrl]

A 4 page SOP....way too long.

1. Family Ties - The issue is you applied for your whole family (wife, child) so you have no ties to your country of residence. At 35, your parents aren’t a tie.
2 & 3. After a degree and diploma, why do you need to take a project management course in Canada and spend thousands of dollars? A PM course can be completed online, anywhere. How does it even help your career? Wouldn’t taking the program in your home country allow you to work and study at the same time. A job offer is okay but you don’t need to go back for it. Your profile looks like you are trying to immigrate by taking a one year PM program.

 

[conestogaapplicant]

A 4 page SOP....way too long.

1. Family Ties - The issue is you applied for your whole family (wife, child) so you have no ties to your country of residence. At 35, your parents aren’t a tie.
2 & 3. After a degree and diploma, why do you need to take a project management course in Canada and spend thousands of dollars? A PM course can be completed online, anywhere. How does it even help your career? Wouldn’t taking the program in your home country allow you to work and study at the same time. A job offer is okay but you don’t need to go back for it. Your profile looks like you are trying to immigrate by taking a one year PM program.

Thank you for the reply.

How many pages SOP maximum do you think is good? Now with the second application, I need to explain 3 refusal reasons on the new SOP. I wouldn't want to miss some points.

About family ties.. I know parents are not a strong tie for adults but since I had applied with my wife and kid, I needed to write something to prove I will be back. Also, I showed my flat and vehicle. How to improve?

Agree about Project management can be done online. As you know for these Covid days, almost all courses are online. I had explained how abroad education will add value to my career progression but seems like it didn't work. I also mentioned that in my home country (Turkey), it is important and will make me selective for employers. Is a 2-year program better than a 1-year program from a VO perspective?

 

[Simba112]

Thank you for the reply.

How many pages SOP maximum do you think is good? Now with the second application, I need to explain 3 refusal reasons on the new SOP. I wouldn't want to miss some points.

About family ties.. I know parents are not a strong tie for adults but since I had applied with my wife and kid, I needed to write something to prove I will be back. Also, I showed my flat and vehicle. How to improve?

Agree about Project management can be done online. As you know for these Covid days, almost all courses are online. I had explained how abroad education will add value to my career progression but seems like it didn't work. I also mentioned that in my home country (Turkey), it is important and will make me selective for employers. Is a 2-year program better than a 1-year program from a VO perspective?

2 year program would somehow make a difference as long as it shows progression from your background, current occupation and prospect from your study plan. I agree with other member’s points, proof of flat or vehicles is not sufficient as strong social tie back home. You can immigrate and dispose those assets. 1yr Project Management with 10 years education gap and career in hospitality made officer reach that conclusion including moving a family for 1 year program that can be completed online especially during pandemic.
As you requested notes, you can reapply and addresses those concern. Changing program and reapply may prove officer’s decision, or may not.

 

[Sheena87]

I think one of the major reasons for your refusal was the fact that you applied for all your family members too, which made the VO think that you are trying to immigrate. When you reapply, remove their names. Later, you can apply for them too.

 

[canuck78]

The fact that you have already had an express entry file indicates that you want to immigrate. What are your job description for the past 5 years? Does the PM make sense? Are you the only or primary breadwinner? If so it doesn't make a lot of sense to return to school and pay international fees at this stage of your life. Your GPA wasn't extremely strong in your previous studies which doesn't help. How much liquid funds did you show? Given you have a family not draining all your finances to study in Canada will be considered. There is no actual set amount needed to include your family so I'm not sure what amount you are referring to.

 

[conestogaapplicant]

2 year program would somehow make a difference as long as it shows progression from your background, current occupation and prospect from your study plan. I agree with other member’s points, proof of flat or vehicles is not sufficient as strong social tie back home. You can immigrate and dispose those assets. 1yr Project Management with 10 years education gap and career in hospitality made officer reach that conclusion including moving a family for 1 year program that can be completed online especially during pandemic.
As you requested notes, you can reapply and addresses those concern. Changing program and reapply may prove officer’s decision, or may not.

Thank you for the reply.

After 1 year program, I was going to make an extension for another 1 year. I believed 1-year programs suit better for mature students because we do not pause our careers for a long time and come back home. Will changing the course to the 2-year program for the second application make VO more suspicious? Like I am not even sure which program I want to study. I declared that I intended to take my family with me especially during the pandemic.

How to prove a strong tie to back home? Assets are disposable for sure and parents are not a reason for mature students.

I sent a deferral request to Fall 2021. I keep waiting for the notes.

 

[conestogaapplicant]

I think one of the major reasons for your refusal was the fact that you applied for all your family members too, which made the VO think that you are trying to immigrate. When you reapply, remove their names. Later, you can apply for them too.

Thank you for the reply.

In beginning, I was planning to apply SP first and after approval rest of the family. I've heard there is a high risk of not getting my wife to SOWP and TRV for child so we decided to apply together as a family. Also, CIC asks to apply together since the pandemic started?

On my original SOP, I wrote something about being family together. Not applying visa to family would be a strong tie to home for sure. If I remove them for the second application, is it advisable? Don't they have access to the old applications?

 

[wonderbly]

If you are planning to do 2 x 1-year programs anyway, you'll be gone from home for 2 years . So why not just go for a 2-year program which might give you better odds?

To show strong ties whilst taking your family with you, you need to show more than a flat and vehicle. Do you have businesses registered in your names? Any other rental properties? Did you get a letter from your employer that they will have a position waiting for you, befitting your newly acquired qualification?

Honestly, after so many years of employment, doing a 1 year cert course in PM won't cut it. Rather go for a Master's program, MBA or similar.

 

[conestogaapplicant]

The fact that you have already had an express entry file indicates that you want to immigrate. What are your job description for the past 5 years? Does the PM make sense? Are you the only or primary breadwinner? If so it doesn't make a lot of sense to return to school and pay international fees at this stage of your life. Your GPA wasn't extremely strong in your previous studies which doesn't help. How much liquid funds did you show? Given you have a family not draining all your finances to study in Canada will be considered. There is no actual set amount needed to include your family so I'm not sure what amount you are referring to.

Thank you for the reply.

With the second application, I will not be holding an Express entry profile anymore. Past 5 years, I worked as Operations Supervisor and Assistant Operations Manager. I was between Global Business Management and Project Management and I've gone for PM. It fits with my employment and educational background. There is a set amount of 17k for 3 people (10k for SP + 7k for wife + 3k for child) according to the CIC for 1-year living expenses. 16k for 1-year college fee. I showed 45k liquid so it covers both. I am not sure this amount would be good enough for a 2-year program for Visa Officer.

 

[Laguna55]

At the end of the day, you are using education as a means to immigrate

 

[canuck78]

Thank you for the reply.

With the second application, I will not be holding an Express entry profile anymore. Past 5 years, I worked as Operations Supervisor and Assistant Operations Manager. I was between Global Business Management and Project Management and I've gone for PM. It fits with my employment and educational background. There is a set amount of 17k for 3 people (10k for SP + 7k for wife + 3k for child) according to the CIC for 1-year living expenses. 16k for 1-year college fee. I showed 45k liquid so it covers both. I am not sure this amount would be good enough for a 2-year program for Visa Officer.

Your EE profile remains on file. There is no stated amount for 3 people except in Quebec. 45 K is not enough for a family of 3 for a 2 year program. Given that you are already an operations supervisor it doesn't make a lot of sense to return to school. It doesn't provide a clear path to career advancement and essentially wipes out all your savings as a family. GCMS notes should provide more details.

 

[GandiBaat]

Contrary to other folks, I believe that you are practically reading tea leaves here. None of the reasons mentioned are actually very strong.

I give you my and my wife's case. I applied for PR in 2014 (end) which did not go through because PR process reached it limit in terms of people. I was suggested to apply again via Express Entry. I never did that. Instead in 2017 I applied for a closed work permit tied to a major employer and it went through. My guess is that its the employer which made the difference. Fast forward to 2021, my wife applied for Study permit and it was approved again. Not complaining, but I see no pattern to it. There are only two things that are different from her profile and yours.

1. She is repeating her engineering masters. We will think if we want to take it to Phd as well. Its a 1.5-2 year degree. It was pretty economical as well.
2. Her university is a bit better known as is a research based univ.

So, I guess, you should try targetting a masters degree (not necessarily MBA) and target a university that is well known and economical. I have put across a debrief of my experience, if you wish take a look at it.

 

[conestogaapplicant]

If you are planning to do 2 x 1-year programs anyway, you'll be gone from home for 2 years . So why not just go for a 2-year program which might give you better odds?

To show strong ties whilst taking your family with you, you need to show more than a flat and vehicle. Do you have businesses registered in your names? Any other rental properties? Did you get a letter from your employer that they will have a position waiting for you, befitting your newly acquired qualification?

Honestly, after so many years of employment, doing a 1 year cert course in PM won't cut it. Rather go for a Master's program, MBA or similar.

I am just thinking to do 2 x 1-year programs but I applied for a 1-year Study permit because I have 1 year PM letter of acceptance. I thought it would be easy to convince VO with a 1-year program.

No businesses nor rental properties. I only got a working reference letter from my current employer. With the second application, I will definitely get a letter that includes a job offer with an upper management position waiting for me.

Changing DLI will take so much time for me. I sent PM deferral to Conestoga for PM September 2021. If GCMS notes say something about the program, I will change it for sure.

 

[conestogaapplicant]

At the end of the day, you are using education as a means to immigrate

I believe most of the applicants choose to study in Canada for immigration purposes.