Spousal sponsorship

[AramCrystal]

I'm really not sure. So if we do outside of Canada I have to wait for all of the paper work to be done before I can move up and work in Canada?

 

[AramCrystal]

Would it be best if I just got this 1 year work permit and moved up while we do outside inside of the country paper work?
I'm just worried about finding a job on a temporary work permit, I have a bachelors degree in Fiance would a bank hire someone on a temporary 1 year work permit?

 

[Betina]

I'm really not sure. So if we do outside of Canada I have to wait for all of the paper work to be done before I can move up and work in Canada?

I'm pretty sure you will have to wait until it's all done. However, you can come and go as you wish (work in the US, visit Canada).

With an inland application you can't leave Canada until the process is over: if you leave and are refused re-entry on any ground, your application is terminated. Also, from what I know, a refusal inside Canada does not give rise to a right of appeal.

 

[AramCrystal]

We don't want to be apart from each other so would it be best to go up on a 1 year work visa and hope in 6-8 months I get the open work visa?
Or should we stay in the US while the process is going on and her visa might laps?

Outland takes 12 months and inland all together takes 12-16 right?

Whats the best way to do it we don't want to get in any kind of trouble a lawyer told us letting her visa laps if we are married is waved.

We are so confused and upset we did the whole visit each other every month or so for a year we can't do it again its too hard.

 

[cathy1984]

hi everyone..as i browse and read it all the forms of APPLICATION OF SPONSOR FAMILY CLASS..ive notice in SPONSORSHIP AND AGREEMENT UNDERTAKING it stated that if principal applicant will approve and enter in canada..he/she will get first TEMPORARY RESIDENT PERMIT then after 3 years she/he will become permanet resident..so it means she/he need work permit to find job here in canada and cant able to get benefits like permanet resident..im so sad about this?cant somebody have full knowlwdge about this and explain it to me..thanks,,

 

[Leon]

hi everyone..as i browse and read it all the forms of APPLICATION OF SPONSOR FAMILY CLASS..ive notice in SPONSORSHIP AND AGREEMENT UNDERTAKING it stated that if principal applicant will approve and enter in canada..he/she will get first TEMPORARY RESIDENT PERMIT then after 3 years she/he will become permanet resident..so it means she/he need work permit to find job here in canada and cant able to get benefits like permanet resident..im so sad about this?cant somebody have full knowlwdge about this and explain it to me..thanks,,

You have misunderstood something. Nobody is given TRP status unless they are considered inadmissible but with H&C grounds. If somebody manages to stay on a TRP status for 3 years, they become eligible to apply for PR.

A person who is not inadmissible will get PR as soon as their processing is completed. The only new rule is that if your relationship has not been ongoing for at least 2 years and you don't have children, then you will initially get a temporary PR status for 2 years. After 2 years, your renewal depends on if you are still with your partner. This rule was added to fight marriage fraud.

 

[Hungary]

Hi everyone and Leon


I thought I might find someone here with the same problem as mine.

My Husband wants to sponsor me and the kids.
We submitted our sponsorship app to CPC M this July. We got a letter from them, saying, that I've already entered Canada as a PR before. Which is true, only it was 20 years ago, when I was a 9 year old child, being sponsored on my Mom's behalf by her ex Canadian husband.
The marriage didn't work out so after a year we packed and she brought me back. For 19 years I didn't go back, just this April to visit my Husband for a month.

So now they told us in the letter to submit a TOTALLY different application to the VO my country belongs , Vienna. The application form is the Travel Document for PR abroad. IMM5524 with a LOT of supporting documents, which will be a LOT of money to translate, certify and send.
I definitely lost my PR , and I do NOT them consider it on Humanitarian and compassionate grounds, because that would definitely last for months, maybe even years. Who knows?!
While my Sponsorship app is sitting in CPCM , not being touched and all the supporting documents will expire after a while and we are just stuck, not getting ahead and I am getting more and more frustrated, sad and hysterical
So there is absolutely no need for me to submit my lost PR application with all the required documents when all I need from Vienna is a confirmation letter saying that I did lost it and I do not want to try getting it back - this way I could send this confirmation letter from Vienna to CPC M and they would go on with our sponsorship.

But I have NO idea how to tell this to Vienna , They don't know anything about me yet, our sponsorship app never arrived to Vienna as I said.
Can somebody please give me some good advice? Or a real experience would be helpful.

 

[computergeek]

Hi everyone and Leon


I thought I might find someone here with the same problem as mine.

My Husband wants to sponsor me and the kids.
We submitted our sponsorship app to CPC M this July. We got a letter from them, saying, that I've already entered Canada as a PR before. Which is true, only it was 20 years ago, when I was a 9 year old child, being sponsored on my Mom's behalf by her ex Canadian husband.
The marriage didn't work out so after a year we packed and she brought me back. For 19 years I didn't go back, just this April to visit my Husband for a month.

So now they told us in the letter to submit a TOTALLY different application to the VO my country belongs , Vienna. The application form is the Travel Document for PR abroad. IMM5524 with a LOT of supporting documents, which will be a LOT of money to translate, certify and send.
I definitely lost my PR , and I do NOT them consider it on Humanitarian and compassionate grounds, because that would definitely last for months, maybe even years. Who knows?!
While my Sponsorship app is sitting in CPCM , not being touched and all the supporting documents will expire after a while and we are just stuck, not getting ahead and I am getting more and more frustrated, sad and hysterical
So there is absolutely no need for me to submit my lost PR application with all the required documents when all I need from Vienna is a confirmation letter saying that I did lost it and I do not want to try getting it back - this way I could send this confirmation letter from Vienna to CPC M and they would go on with our sponsorship.

But I have NO idea how to tell this to Vienna , They don't know anything about me yet, our sponsorship app never arrived to Vienna as I said.
Can somebody please give me some good advice? Or a real experience would be helpful.

Actually, you have not lost your permanent residency and that is the crux of the issue CPC-M is raising. Complicating this is that you have children (presumably with a different man as the father) and they are not permanent residents of Canada.

If we were just talking about you I would say "get on a plane and go 'visit' your husband" - once you are in Canada, you begin to accrue time towards the 730 day residency obligation. After two years in Canada you can apply for a new PR card and it will (as a matter of law) be granted to you. But that won't work for your children because they don't have status in Canada and THAT is problematic.

Your case is complicated - you really would benefit from using the services of a good immigration attorney because of that. But knowing that many people come to these forums because they don't have that option I'll suggest what I see as your choices.

(1) You could return to Canada and start living with your husband here. If you don't have your Record of Landing, you should order a copy of it, as that should be enough to register for provincial health services - note that you should not apply for a PR card until you have been in Canada for 730 days in the previous five years. Otherwise, you risk triggering a residency obligation investigation. After two years (e.g., when you are in compliance with the residency obligation) you and your husband can apply to sponsor your children for permanent residency. The only potential snag here is that you have to get back into Canada and if a CBSA officer figures out you are a PR and not in compliance with the residency obligation you could be reported - but you have a pretty good story and if it gets to that I suspect you can convince them not to report you.

(2) You can apply for a PRTD and argue for H&C considerations (you didn't have a choice as a child, you didn't even know it was an option to return and now that you have learned it is an option you would like to return to Canada at this first opportunity to do so). If granted (which should take a couple of months) you and your husband would sponsor your children for PR and you should apply for a new PR card as soon as you get to Canada (in this case, the 730 day obligation has been waived by the visa office, so CPC-S will issue you a new five year PR card).

(3) You can ask the VO for a form to formally renounce your permanent resident status - the form must come from the visa office, it isn't on the CIC website. There are two versions, you want the one for a PR who has not satisfied the residency obligation. Once they process that form (it's an unusual form so you should figure 4-6 months) you will no longer be a permanent resident and can then be sponsored by your husband.

Note: if you go for option (2) and the VO refuses to grant you the PRTD AND you don't appeal the refusal within 30 days you will also cease to be a permanent resident and this becomes case (3).

Also, because you have been in Canada within the past 12 months, even if you are refused a PRTD, you have the right to enter Canada for an appeal of that decision (this is the odd case where they grant you a 12 month expiration PR card while you are challenging the negative determination). You'd have the right to attend the appeal hearing.

I'm not in your shoes so I cannot tell you which option is the best one for you, but I'd say that (1) is probably the least painful if you can live with it. If your goal is to be living with your husband as soon as possible, that's going to achieve that the most quickly.

 

[keesio]

Actually, you have not lost your permanent residency and that is the crux of the issue CPC-M is raising. Complicating this is that you have children (presumably with a different man as the father) and they are not permanent residents of Canada.

If we were just talking about you I would say "get on a plane and go 'visit' your husband" - once you are in Canada, you begin to accrue time towards the 730 day residency obligation. After two years in Canada you can apply for a new PR card and it will (as a matter of law) be granted to you.

Oh wow, I had no idea. I just assumed that if you become a PR and then leave and do not fulfill your residency obligations, you lose your PR and that is it (and you have no status in Canada anymore). I didn't realize that you are still considered a PR.

 

[computergeek]

Oh wow, I had no idea. I just assumed that if you become a PR and then leave and do not fulfill your residency obligations, you lose your PR and that is it (and you have no status in Canada anymore). I didn't realize that you are still considered a PR.

Many people confuse PR card expiration with loss of PR. But if your passport expires, you don't lose your citizenship (for example) and the same thing applies with permanent residency in Canada.

This situation (child PR of Canada removed from Canada) arises regularly and actually people who try to get a PRTD quickly (usually in their late teens or early 20s) are generally granted the PRTD - they basically get a shot at meeting the residency obligation on their own.

My spouse's parents are PRs of Canada but neither one has been in Canada in more than five years. But they remain permanent residents of Canada, though if they were to come to Canada and present themselves as PRs they would be served with removal orders at the border; service of a removal order or refusal of a PRTD starts a 30 day clock ticking - you either appeal the decision OR you leave Canada and cease to be a permanent resident.

For PRs from visa exempt countries, the usual "trick" is to enter as a visitor. CBSA probably won't notice they are PRs at that point and will admit them. However they get into Canada, as long as they aren't under investigation or a removal order, the time they spend in Canada actually counts towards their permanent residency obligation. So after two years they are in the clear.

She has another option I didn't mention. Her husband can come live with her for two years. Once she has accumulated 730 days of time with her husband anywhere in the world she is also back in compliance with the residency obligation (because time spent with a Canadian spouse/partner outside Canada counts for purposes of the residency obligation) and could then safely come to Canada and sponsor her children at that time.

 

[keesio]

Many people confuse PR card expiration with loss of PR. But if your passport expires, you don't lose your citizenship (for example) and the same thing applies with permanent residency in Canada.

...

My spouse's parents are PRs of Canada but neither one has been in Canada in more than five years. But they remain permanent residents of Canada, though if they were to come to Canada and present themselves as PRs they would be served with removal orders at the border; service of a removal order or refusal of a PRTD starts a 30 day clock ticking - you either appeal the decision OR you leave Canada and cease to be a permanent resident

....

It sounds like you would still technically be considered a PR only because they didn't officially revoke it. And if you are outside Canada and try to go back to Canada and they find out you are a PR and failed the residency requirements, then they would then get a removal order and you have to leave and lose it (unless you win your appeal). Is this more or less correct?

 

[Leon]

It sounds like you would still technically be considered a PR only because they didn't officially revoke it. And if you are outside Canada and try to go back to Canada and they find out you are a PR and failed the residency requirements, then they would then get a removal order and you have to leave and lose it (unless you win your appeal). Is this more or less correct?

If you admit that you do not meet the residency requirements, they could offer you to renounce your PR and enter as a visitor. If you claim that you had H&C grounds or you do not admit that you do not meet the residency requirements, they have two options, either let you in or report you for not meeting the requirements and then let you in.

If they report you, you can appeal for your PR but you may lose the appeal, especially if you fail to prove solid H&C grounds for having to stay outside Canada.

If they let you in anyway without reporting you, you can put your PR status back in good standing by staying for 2 years.

They do not always report people even though it is clear they don't meet the requirements. Immigration officers are also human beings. Sometimes they might have compassion to a persons situation or sometimes they might be a bit lazy and feel like turning a blind eye.

 

[Hungary]

Oooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh my God!!!!!!!! I am in SHOCK, I don't even know what to think now or say or do I am
confused and SHOCKED about all of this. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
THANK YOU for your answer, hoooowww do you know all of this?!

I don't really understand how on Earth would I be allowed to stay for 2 years, the maximum is 6 month. I do know there is an option to extend my visit, but I must tell why do I want that and in case we cannot show up our sponsorship being in process there is no other reason I can show to CIC give me the extension. I assume I cannot say I am tricking the system and want to gather the two years to get my PR back, can I?

And I kind of faint if I just think back, that in April they could have easily find out that I have been a PR and they could've turn me back with the two years old twins after the 14 hours flight
For sure I don't dare to fly back again to ask for the 6 months stay because this case they will look deeper into my case and they won't let me in. I am shy and I am VERY honest and faithful person, and I do understand that I "have the right" to visit and stay there for 6 months, but we know well, that a CBSA Officer has the right to turn me away and there is no way I could win. They either let me in or not. So this , with two 2,5 years old kids won't work

Husband cannot come to me, if he could I would have already told him to move here and live here with me. We would be very happy here in Hungary, this all immigration stuff and trying to deal with the system , this is painful and stressful and pretty annoying.

I would ask the VO Vienna for PRTD - which I highly doubt they would give, so I would have to ask for the H&C, BUT they just don't share the processing time at all........ there is only one I've found on the CIC webpage, H&C INSIDE Canada (which I know not my case) but tit shows 30-42 MONTHS............... so based on this, I don't think that it would be so much less outside. Even half of it would be TOO MUCH.
Okay I do not know what to do......
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

But anyways Thanks again Computergeek for your help it was VERY useful!

 

[Leon]

And I kind of faint if I just think back, that in April they could have easily find out that I have been a PR and they could've turn me back with the two years old twins after the 14 hours flight

They can not turn you back if you can prove that you are a PR. They can however turn you back if you come to visit Canada, even if you are visa exempt, if they are not sure of your intentions, think you will overstay etc.

The reason why a PR who enters Canada even as a visitor can stay for 2 years is because they are still a PR and they remain a PR unless their PR is revoked. They have the right to stay in Canada. If immigration will come after them because they think they are a tourist who overstayed is another matter.

 

[computergeek]

I don't really understand how on Earth would I be allowed to stay for 2 years, the maximum is 6 month.

That would be true if you were a foreign national, but you are not - you are still a permanent resident. There is no maximum for a permanent resident. That is my point - once you are back in Canada, you may remain (legally) as long as you like. You cannot get a new PR card because you are not in compliance, but your non-compliance "resolves" after you have the required 730 days.

And I kind of faint if I just think back, that in April they could have easily find out that I have been a PR and they could've turn me back with the two years old twins after the 14 hours flight

They cannot refuse you the right of entry at the border. You are a permanent resident of Canada. You have a right of entry as a matter of law. The most they can do is serve you with a removal order. In that case you must leave Canada within 30 days. So if you plan your trip to be 30 days or less, you'd comply anyway, your husband could then sponsor you (after 30 days) and you move on with your life.

Who is the father of your children? Your husband? If so, and your husband is a Citizen, your children would be citizens by descent and don't need to be sponsored anyway. The chance of even being written up at that point is dropping (Canadian husband and kids, lapsed PR - the most they can do is force you to go through a lot of BS paperwork because you'd get your PR back anyway.)

My suggestion is strengthened by this additional information: make another "visit" to Canada. Once you are here, just stay here. If you aren't reported, don't worry about it. If you ARE reported, the appeal on H&C grounds would be done inside Canada anyway and I think you have a pretty strong H&C case at this point, particularly given all they can really do is make you go through lots of paperwork just to get back to where you are now.

Remember, as a permanent resident of Canada you cannot be refused at the border. They can write you up, but they have to let you into Canada. The only real open question in my mind is the status of your children. If they are Canadian by descent, your path forward seems pretty clear and much faster than anything else.

Oh, and the PRTD process would probably take 2-3 months to a refusal so figure 4 to 6 months before a new sponsorship could be made. Given your situation, I don't see how losing your PR at this stage is the best path forward. If it happens, so be it and you can deal with it. But if it doesn't happen, then you can move on with your life in Canada much faster.