Son staying in UK, but IRCC still claim he is dependant and need his details

[Runick]

Hi, apologies for the long subject line, this shouldn't be complicated but apparently it is.

I'm already working in Canada through LMIA, with my wife (Spousal Visa) and Daughter, 19 years old but only on a Visitor Record so can neither work, nor go to college.

My son is 21 1/2 years old, and is serving in the British Army, quite happily and on a good wage. He has no interest in coming Canada.

I am applying through AIPP and have my Provincial nomination already,My lawyer firm are demanding all his information and records, and him to sign everything on my Federal application for PR. They state that as he is under 22 years old he is dependant and has to be on the application. Everything i have read that defines a dependant child is someone who is financially dependant on me. I cannot get any of his paperwork as he refuses (i agree with him too...), but my lawyer insists it's needed as IRCC will refuse the application otherwise.

Is this the correct interpretation of a child who DOES NOT want to come to Canada?

My daughter is now leaving Canada because she has had no life to speak of for a year now since moving here.
I would normally ring someone at IRCC but they seem to be extremely difficult to get hold of if you do not have an application number.

any help would be fantastic, cheers

 

[Miraclejj]

Hi, apologies for the long subject line, this shouldn't be complicated but apparently it is.

I'm already working in Canada through LMIA, with my wife (Spousal Visa) and Daughter, 19 years old but only on a Visitor Record so can neither work, nor go to college.

My son is 21 1/2 years old, and is serving in the British Army, quite happily and on a good wage. He has no interest in coming Canada.

I am applying through AIPP and have my Provincial nomination already,My lawyer firm are demanding all his information and records, and him to sign everything on my Federal application for PR. They state that as he is under 22 years old he is dependant and has to be on the application. Everything i have read that defines a dependant child is someone who is financially dependant on me. I cannot get any of his paperwork as he refuses (i agree with him too...), but my lawyer insists it's needed as IRCC will refuse the application otherwise.

Is this the correct interpretation of a child who DOES NOT want to come to Canada?

My daughter is now leaving Canada because she has had no life to speak of for a year now since moving here.
I would normally ring someone at IRCC but they seem to be extremely difficult to get hold of if you do not have an application number.

any help would be fantastic, cheers

A very simple answer for you: Yes, your lawyer is correct. If your son insists to refuse to sign any application, your application will be refused. And the only option for you is to apply your PR after your son turns to 22 yrs old. Then, he officially will be no longer your dependent.

 

[Runick]

Thanks for the swift answer Miraclejj, I can't believe that Canada is that broken and inflexible. In the UK we have some fairly robust data protection laws, which only allow anyone to gain and hold information if it is essential for the role they are playing. It seems Canada haven't quite caught up with the modern world just yet...They are asking for some extremely unnecessary information.

So here's a follow up question if you don't mind. Why does the IRCC website use the words "A child who depends on their parent for financial and other support. To qualify as a dependant, your child must meet the age limit and requirements of the applicable definition below". I don't want him to be declared dependant, and he certainly isn't dependent on me for financial support.

 

[Miraclejj]

Thanks for the swift answer Miraclejj, I can't believe that Canada is that broken and inflexible. In the UK we have some fairly robust data protection laws, which only allow anyone to gain and hold information if it is essential for the role they are playing. It seems Canada haven't quite caught up with the modern world just yet...They are asking for some extremely unnecessary information.

You are very wrong, Sir. Although I cannot say for sure that Canada's privacy protection by law is supreme than UK, but it should be on par with UK. The information CIC asked from your son has its reasons, they gotta make sure who they deal with. And if you don't trust the lawyer who is handling your case, you may well prepare and submit your application directly to CIC. And I am 100% sure CIC won't share your sons information with any third parties that who are not essential.

 

[scylla]

Thanks for the swift answer Miraclejj, I can't believe that Canada is that broken and inflexible. In the UK we have some fairly robust data protection laws, which only allow anyone to gain and hold information if it is essential for the role they are playing. It seems Canada haven't quite caught up with the modern world just yet...They are asking for some extremely unnecessary information.

So here's a follow up question if you don't mind. Why does the IRCC website use the words "A child who depends on their parent for financial and other support. To qualify as a dependant, your child must meet the age limit and requirements of the applicable definition below". I don't want him to be declared dependant, and he certainly isn't dependent on me for financial support.

Some people have been successfuly in getting dependents dropped from their applications by proving that they cannot get the paperwork, medical, etc. required to include this dependent in their application. There are some examples of this in the Express Entry section if you look around.

Note that your wife qualifies for a spousal open work permit if you hold a NOC A, B or 0 skill level role.

Your daughter would need a study permit to attend university or college and would have to pay international student fees. If she is attending school full time, she can work part time (up to 20 hours a week off campus).

 

[Runick]

if you want an example of unnecessary information, try this. I served in the British military for 25 years. They have my service discharge papers and all my work history since. Yet I'm told they insist that i provide them with names of my units and Commanding Officers for all my 25 years since 1987. That is unnecessary. My son is currently on operational service, they are asking for his unit and Commanders name.... not only is that unnecessary, but it's actually against the official Secrets act in the UK, as well as good old common sense.

 

[scylla]

You are very wrong, Sir. Although I cannot say for sure that Canada's privacy protection by law is supreme than UK, but it should be on par with UK.

I would actually agree that the UK's privacy laws are stricter than Canada's. We don't have anything quite like GDPR or the Data Protection Act.

 

[Runick]

Some people have been successfuly in getting dependents dropped from their applications by proving that they cannot get the paperwork, medical, etc. required to include this dependent in their application. There are some examples of this in the Express Entry section if you look around.

Note that your wife qualifies for a spousal open work permit if you hold a NOC A, B or 0 skill level role.

Your daughter would need a study permit to attend university or college and would have to pay international student fees. If she is attending school full time, she can work part time (up to 20 hours a week off campus).

Thank you Scylla for your answer. I have asked my lawyer to present the application as you have suggested but she keeps asking for his information again, as if i could magically get paperwork from a soldier 8,000 miles away . My wife does indeed have the open spousal visa, but my daughter can't study on a visitor record. The difference in fees btw between international and Resident is astronomical. $22000 as opposed to $7000 for the course she wanted to do.
I imagine few cases are the same and the level of inflexibility astounds me for a country desperate to bring in high calibre people.

 

[Miraclejj]

if you want an example of unnecessary information, try this. I served in the British military for 25 years. They have my service discharge papers and all my work history since. Yet I'm told they insist that i provide them with names of my units and Commanding Officers for all my 25 years since 1987. That is unnecessary. My son is currently on operational service, they are asking for his unit and Commanders name.... not only is that unnecessary, but it's actually against the official Secrets act in the UK, as well as good old common sense.

I really respect all service men and women for their country, it requires courage and sacrifice, Solute both you and your son!
But on the other hand, you are requesting the privilege to immigrate to Canada, please respect the law of this generous and beautiful country and its sovereignty by submitting any necessary information that our government has asked for. You are not the only previous service man tried to immigrate to Canada, I still remember I read on this forum that there was a gentleman from Sweden was previously in service and he submitted his records too. It took a long time for him to go through, because the bureau of Sweden servicemen delayed to response CIC's information verification request.
As regarding your son's information, you might need to submit an explanation letter to CIC regarding his operational service, they might grant to it that your son doesn't need to disclose any further information other than his name, birthday or any non essential information. All in all, UK and Canada are allies.

 

[scylla]

Thank you Scylla for your answer. I have asked my lawyer to present the application as you have suggested but she keeps asking for his information again, as if i could magically get paperwork from a soldier 8,000 miles away . My wife does indeed have the open spousal visa, but my daughter can't study on a visitor record. The difference in fees btw between international and Resident is astronomical. $22000 as opposed to $7000 for the course she wanted to do.
I imagine few cases are the same and the level of inflexibility astounds me for a country desperate to bring in high calibre people.

Many of us on this forum have had to get paperwork from people and/or from offices who are on the other side of the globe, in many cases across multiple countries, as part of our own immigration journeys. It's totally doable and your situation isn't by any means difficult or unique because of this - it's actually relatively easy for you since you're taking about the UK which is a country with no war/conflict, a stable government, and extremely reliable (1st world) courier services. Your issue is the fact that your dependent son doesn't wish to provide information to support your immigration application. That's pretty much it.

I fully appreciate the difference between domestic and international tuition. Just making sure you're aware of the options.

 

[Copingwithlife]

Thank you Scylla for your answer. I have asked my lawyer to present the application as you have suggested but she keeps asking for his information again, as if i could magically get paperwork from a soldier 8,000 miles away . My wife does indeed have the open spousal visa, but my daughter can't study on a visitor record. The difference in fees btw between international and Resident is astronomical. $22000 as opposed to $7000 for the course she wanted to do.
I imagine few cases are the same and the level of inflexibility astounds me for a country desperate to bring in high calibre people.

Any other issues you’d like to bring up about the country you CHOSE to immigrate too ?

 

[Runick]

Any other issues you’d like to bring up about the country you CHOSE to immigrate too ?

Wow, you are so welcoming...
I was invited over as a skilled worker to help your economy. My family left a very lovely home and good employment to do that. Now, due to the inflexible bureaucracy which is being defended on here, my daughter has neither been able to work nor study and has decided to leave your beautiful country. If you can defend a 19 year old girl coming here for a good life and being left out in the cold by the system, then good on you, you're very liberal and I'm sure you're extremely comfortable with the government asking for information which is in no way relevant, especially for someone from a foreign country who has no interest in coming here.

I asked a question about an interpretation of a dependent Child. one which is quite clearly at odds with the real words used by IRCC and i notice you haven't tried to explain the definition interpretation. You guys can continue with the conversation if you like, Miraclejj kindly gave me the answer and Scylla jumped in with relevant info too. cheers folks.

 

[canuck78]

Wow, you are so welcoming...
I was invited over as a skilled worker to help your economy. My family left a very lovely home and good employment to do that. Now, due to the inflexible bureaucracy which is being defended on here, my daughter has neither been able to work nor study and has decided to leave your beautiful country. If you can defend a 19 year old girl coming here for a good life and being left out in the cold by the system, then good on you, you're very liberal and I'm sure you're extremely comfortable with the government asking for information which is in no way relevant, especially for someone from a foreign country who has no interest in coming here.

I asked a question about an interpretation of a dependent Child. one which is quite clearly at odds with the real words used by IRCC and i notice you haven't tried to explain the definition interpretation. You guys can continue with the conversation if you like, Miraclejj kindly gave me the answer and Scylla jumped in with relevant info too. cheers folks.

You are arguing that your 21 year old son shouldn’t have to give his information yet you also complaining that your daughter can’t get domestic fees. You have to pick one side. Canada changed the sponsorship age so that university aged children could be sponsored and remain in Canada. Young adults may not always know what they want out of life at 19-21 and some may be adamant that they will never move to Canada. A few years from now they may change their mind that is why Canada makes it very hard not to sponsor all your children. There has been too many cases where later on children decide they want to come to Canada.

In terms of military information, like a list of your supervisors, is important to make sure you are actually being honest about your military roles and you weren’t part of another division. The UK is an ally but many others applying to immigrate with a military background may not have the best intentions. That is why anyone who served in the military must given more background information.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Hi, apologies for the long subject line, this shouldn't be complicated but apparently it is.

I'm already working in Canada through LMIA, with my wife (Spousal Visa) and Daughter, 19 years old but only on a Visitor Record so can neither work, nor go to college.

My son is 21 1/2 years old, and is serving in the British Army, quite happily and on a good wage. He has no interest in coming Canada.

I am applying through AIPP and have my Provincial nomination already,My lawyer firm are demanding all his information and records, and him to sign everything on my Federal application for PR. They state that as he is under 22 years old he is dependant and has to be on the application. Everything i have read that defines a dependant child is someone who is financially dependant on me. I cannot get any of his paperwork as he refuses (i agree with him too...), but my lawyer insists it's needed as IRCC will refuse the application otherwise.

Is this the correct interpretation of a child who DOES NOT want to come to Canada?

My daughter is now leaving Canada because she has had no life to speak of for a year now since moving here.
I would normally ring someone at IRCC but they seem to be extremely difficult to get hold of if you do not have an application number.

any help would be fantastic, cheers

Get a notarized declaration from your son stating that as a legal adult, he refuses to provide any information for your PR app. Complete a notarized declaration yourself stating that you understand your son will be excluded from the Family Class and you will never be able to sponsor him. IRCC should accept this.

Wow, you are so welcoming...
I was invited over as a skilled worker to help your economy. My family left a very lovely home and good employment to do that. Now, due to the inflexible bureaucracy which is being defended on here, my daughter has neither been able to work nor study and has decided to leave your beautiful country. If you can defend a 19 year old girl coming here for a good life and being left out in the cold by the system, then good on you, you're very liberal and I'm sure you're extremely comfortable with the government asking for information which is in no way relevant, especially for someone from a foreign country who has no interest in coming here.

I asked a question about an interpretation of a dependent Child. one which is quite clearly at odds with the real words used by IRCC and i notice you haven't tried to explain the definition interpretation. You guys can continue with the conversation if you like, Miraclejj kindly gave me the answer and Scylla jumped in with relevant info too. cheers folks.

Your daughter is also a legal adult and was not "left in the cold" by Canada. Her choice to come here when she wasn't able to work or study. Canada is generous in allowing her to still be included in your PR app even though she is an adult.

 

[zardoz]

Wow, you are so welcoming...
I was invited over as a skilled worker to help your economy. My family left a very lovely home and good employment to do that. Now, due to the inflexible bureaucracy which is being defended on here, my daughter has neither been able to work nor study and has decided to leave your beautiful country. If you can defend a 19 year old girl coming here for a good life and being left out in the cold by the system, then good on you, you're very liberal and I'm sure you're extremely comfortable with the government asking for information which is in no way relevant, especially for someone from a foreign country who has no interest in coming here.

I asked a question about an interpretation of a dependent Child. one which is quite clearly at odds with the real words used by IRCC and i notice you haven't tried to explain the definition interpretation. You guys can continue with the conversation if you like, Miraclejj kindly gave me the answer and Scylla jumped in with relevant info too. cheers folks.

Were you "invited" by the Government of Canada?