Some American and British applicants seem to have a sense of entitlement to exceptional treatment when it comes to applying to immigrate to Canada

[ybjianada]

I came to Canada as a PR in 2018 through Express Entry (FSW stream). I am now a Canadian citizen. For each step of my immigration journey, I carefully familiarized myself with the requirements set by IRCC and complied with all of them. At no point did I consider any of the rules or requirements of IRCC to be unreasonable or that somehow I should be entitled to any special treatment from IRCC for any reason.

About 2 weeks ago, I heard an interview on CBC with an American doctor practicing in Toronto. He voiced frustrations about the setback in his efforts to obtain PR status. Interestingly, he admitted that all the problems he encountered were as a result of his own mistakes. This is the link to the CBC story (you will see a writeup about the interview, as well as the interview audio itself): https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/...ncy-9.7055152?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us

Below is a summary of his situation/complaint:

- He and his family moved to Toronto (from North Carolina) in July 2023 on a five-year Work Permit, and he started to work at a clinic.

- Shortly after moving to Canada, he bought a house as a foreigner, and had to pay a foreigner levy of 25% (note that in Ontario, this amount can be refunded if the buyer obtains PR status within 4 years from the date of purchase. This point was not at all mentioned in the interview or the article, but I feel it needs to be pointed out here).

- In 2023, he started to look into applying for PR but realized he did not have enough CRS (Comprehensive Ranking System) points (age being an unfavorable factor in his case). So he applied to Ontario's provincial nomination program (OINP)to boost his points. However, because of his inadequate preparation of documentation (notarization of his educational certificates was unacceptable to IRCC), he missed the deadline for submitting documentation and was then rejected. He lodged an appeal but has not heard from OINP. At this point of the interview, he sarcastically said "But Ontario needs doctors".

- In Fall of 2024, he received an Invitation to Apply from IRCC (it is not clear through which stream), and he submitted his PR application.

- However, his application was rejected because of his own mistakes. The mistakes included: selecting the wrong credentials in the application form and submitting his wife's educational certificate without the authentication required by IRCC, even though those requirements are clearly spelt out by IRCC.

- At this point of the interview, the host asked him how he felt. He said he was very "angry" while acknowledging that it was all his fault. He lamented not having the chance to correct his mistake: “It was my fault,” admits Antil. "Right away I knew what I had done wrong and I knew how easy the fix would have been. But you’re not given that option"

- He talked about how this process made him frustrated and that he will warn other American doctors about the potential pitfalls.

Here is what I think about his case:

- First, check your privilege. As an American doctor, he was able to seamlessly obtain a license from the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario to practice in the province. This is in contrast to doctor immigrants from some other countries who cannot obtain a license to practice in Canada and have to work low-skilled jobs to make a living. This is not at all acknowledged in the interview or the article.
- Second, in the interview, he repeatedly talks about how he loves Canada and wants to live here long term (he already has a five-year Work Permit), without also admitting that a likely strong motivation is to obtain a refund of the 25% foreigner house levy within the 4-year limit set by Ontario. This is understandable, but it needs to be acknowledged. And the decision to buy a house while still on a Work Permit was entirely his own (encouraged undoubtedly by Realtors).
- Third and most importantly, IRCC puts all applicants on an equal footing as far as documentation requirements are concerned. If you make a major mistake, your application is rejected and you are not provided with a chance to correct the mistakes. While seemingly inflexible, this procedural practice applies to everyone, and this element of equality is what I admire IRCC for. While most people in Canada (including myself) welcome American doctors to move to Canada and obtain PR status, I do not think anyone should demand special treatment when it comes to complying with documentation requirements set by the Canadian government. No Americans, or doctors, or American doctors should feel they are entitled to exceptional treatment when it comes to IRCC's rules, requirements, and procedures.

This American doctor's story reminds me of another case I heard a while back in 2013 about a British woman (fittingly) named Karen Strachan who complained to the media that she had to submit documentation for English proficiency in her citizenship application: https://globalnews.ca/news/447334/b...-because-govt-wants-proof-she-speaks-english/

She was unable to submit her high school diploma as evidence of English proficiency, and she was unwilling to take a test as another means to satisfy the language requirement. So she complained to the media. I suppose her rationale was that as a woman from the UK, she should be exempted from this requirement. However, IRCC once again puts everyone on an equal footing and requires documentary proof of language proficiency from everyone, regardless of their racial background or country of origin. The then immigration minister Jason Kenny said the following about this case:

“I’m sorry this lady has to go through this experience but she ought to have done the test like everyone else,” he said.

“I’ve looked at the idea of exempting people who were born in English and French-speaking countries but it was pointed out to me there are large numbers of people in those countries that don’t speak English or French.”

This is what I admire IRCC (and the Canadian government) for. Everyone is treated equally under the law. You are not given special treatment because of your race, ethnicity, country of origin, etc. And it is the most important reason I chose to live in this country.

 

[armoured]

- In 2023, he started to look into applying for PR but realized he did not have enough CRS (Comprehensive Ranking System) points (age being an unfavorable factor in his case). So he applied to Ontario's provincial nomination program (OINP)to boost his points. However, because of his inadequate preparation of documentation (notarization of his educational certificates was unacceptable to IRCC), he missed the deadline for submitting documentation and was then rejected. He lodged an appeal but has not heard from OINP. At this point of the interview, he sarcastically said "But Ontario needs doctors".

- In Fall of 2024, he received an Invitation to Apply from IRCC (it is not clear through which stream), and he submitted his PR application.

- However, his application was rejected because of his own mistakes. The mistakes included: selecting the wrong credentials in the application form and submitting his wife's educational certificate without the authentication required by IRCC, even though those requirements are clearly spelt out by IRCC.

- At this point of the interview, the host asked him how he felt. He said he was very "angry" while acknowledging that it was all his fault. He lamented not having the chance to correct his mistake

It seems to be extremely difficult for doctors to check their privilege.

The real comical thing (IMO) in this case is after screwing up his first application by not following the instructions, and having a lot of money at stake (both employment and the house fee) this individual didn't just hire someone to at least check his application.

I think many people can do their files and applications themselves. But a very important skill in life is knowing when it is better to use someone else's skills. Having screwed up someone important once, when you also have the money - hire a professional.

She was unable to submit her high school diploma as evidence of English proficiency, and she was unwilling to take a test as another means to satisfy the language requirement. So she complained to the media. I suppose her rationale was that as a woman from the UK, she should be exempted from this requirement. However, IRCC once again puts everyone on an equal footing and requires documentary proof of language proficiency from everyone, regardless of their racial background or country of origin. The then immigration minister Jason Kenny said the following about this case:
“I’m sorry this lady has to go through this experience but she ought to have done the test like everyone else,” he said.

“I’ve looked at the idea of exempting people who were born in English and French-speaking countries but it was pointed out to me there are large numbers of people in those countries that don’t speak English or French.”

I'm of two minds on this. I overall agree that taking the English proficiency test is largely a breeze and for most native speakers is nothing more than a fee and an afternoon of their time.

That said: it's not an insubstantial fee* and for some individuals is clearly a bit ridiculous. (I read one article with a complaint by a professor of English Literature with several published books.) It seems to me providing an exemption with some simple criteria would not be hard - and they could incentivize applicants to write the test by 'capping' the points for language if you don't sit the test.

The other side that I'm well aware of though: it would end up costing the govt money in administration and appeals, and this is the side people who complain about this don't consider. They'd have to study, have some framework, have staff to administer these exemptions, overhead costs and inevitably face complaints about why 'my' English experience and evidence isn't good enough but so-and-sos is. It's not 'free' to make exemptions.

So that's the side I don't think people consider. We all agree (I think) that language requirements are important. We might even agree that some people obviously will pass, and the test is a formality/inconvenience/cost. But if some people think they 'deserve' a pass, then a whole bureaucracy and standards have to be 'stood up' and operated (at non-zero cost).

Leading to ... maybe it is just easier to have everyone write a test? (And also accept that some people are going to complain, no matter how clear and relatively painless that particular requirement is?)

*I've paid it for a family member for citizenship - great English and had studied here in English, had other English tests but not the ones accepted, etc., - so for a few mismatches to formal requirements we decided easier for them just to sit the test and not worry about whether the proof would be accepted.

 

[Shmiler]

You lost me with the "check your privilege" and "Karen" remarks - puerile nonsense.

What exactly was the point of your story, other than to indulge in a bit of whining?

Would you like me to dig up thousands of comparable cases involving applicants of other nationalities who have complained about the process?

For the avoidance of doubt, I am neither British nor American.

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

You lost me with the "check your privilege" and "Karen" remarks - puerile nonsense.

What exactly was the point of your story, other than to indulge in a bit of whining?

Would you like me to dig up thousands of comparable cases involving applicants of other nationalities who have complained about the process?

For the avoidance of doubt, I am neither British nor American.

If anyone from any other nationality said the same thing, we would criticize them the same way. My nationality gets kicked left-and-right and I see it happen everyday. OP could've skipped the mention of nationality, but that's the only thing wrong with it. When I saw that the doctor failed to do his paperwork right 3 times and this made it to the news, I was like "what was IRCC supposed to do, hand him out PR and citizenship?" -> there's a due process that he needs to follow. End of the story.

 

[Copingwithlife]

As soon as I saw the story in the CBC I moved on .

It was just another CBC woe is me story about people who can’t follow the rules , don’t qualify , or in this case can’t fill in forms properly and they think the rules shouldn’t apply to them and they should magically get PR
What CBC doesn’t realize it just hurts there agenda of “ immigration for all “

Btw if that was my Doctor I’d be triple checking everything the goof did if I had an appointment with them

 

[ybjianada]

Would you like me to dig up thousands of comparable cases involving applicants of other nationalities who have complained about the process?

The difference is whether mainstream Media in Canada would give voice to those applicants (non-White, or from a non-Western country) to complain about IRCC's established rules and procedures.

Usually, when the mainstream media publicize those cases, it is because something extraordinary has happened, such as the processing taking significantly longer than IRCC's own processing timeline.

Would CBC publicize a case of a non-White or a non-Western person being rejected by IRCC for failing to follow simple instructions?

Would the Global News publicize the case of a non-White or non-Western person refusing to satisfy the language requirement (for citizenship purposes) simply because he or she thinks exemption should be applied to them (even though not according to existing rules and regulations)?

 

[ybjianada]

OP could've skipped the mention of nationality, but that's the only thing wrong with it

I would have to disagree. In fact, I also wanted to mention their ethnicity (white) in the title, but I ran out of the word limit. The thing is these folks (doctors or not) already enjoy intangible privilege in Canada by being a member of the majority race. I remember once being on an escalator in Vancouver, not doing or saying anything, and someone turned to me and said "So many foreigners here. It's disgusting". I bet a white person would be much less likely (if at all) to experience such xenophobia or racism in Canada.

I don't resent them (US/UK/white immigrants to Canada) for this. But it is when they also want to claim exemption from black-and-white rules that the rest of us have to comply with, and somehow the mainstream media choose to give voice to such expressions of exceptionalism, I find it too much.

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

I would have to disagree. In fact, I also wanted to mention their ethnicity (white) in the title, but I ran out of the word limit. The thing is these folks (doctors or not) already enjoy intangible privilege in Canada by being a member of the majority race. I remember once being on an escalator in Vancouver, not doing or saying anything, and someone turned to me and said "So many foreigners here. It's disgusting". I bet a white person would be much less likely (if at all) to experience such xenophobia or racism in Canada.

I don't resent them (US/UK/white immigrants to Canada) for this. But it is when they also want to claim exemption from black-and-white rules that the rest of us have to comply with, and somehow the mainstream media choose to give voice to such expressions of exceptionalism, I find it too much.

>So many foreigners here. It's disgusting

That was as sad thing to encounter. But, I'd emphasize that you don't resort to the same bigotry/discrimination that you yourself faced. Just not going to help you at all.

>I bet a white person would be much less likely (if at all) to experience such xenophobia or racism in Canada.

W.E.I.R.D. population (read more about it) are much more likely to be better in those operating standards and when it comes to the general level of acceptance as compared to non-W.E.I.R.D. population that most of us non-western immigrants are a part of.

>and somehow the mainstream media choose to give voice to such expressions of exceptionalism, I find it too much

Odd by all standards that the news publication gave that so much amount of noise - perhaps a political angle there.

>The thing is these folks (doctors or not) already enjoy intangible privilege in Canada by being a member of the majority race.

If you volunteer at hospitals, food banks, events, etc and see just how badly some of them are suffering, you'll forget their privilege. There are so many things there that are worth understanding.

 

[ybjianada]

That was as sad thing to encounter. But, I'd emphasize that you don't resort to the same bigotry/discrimination that you yourself faced. Just not going to help you at all.

I would like to hope you did not interpret what I posted as stemming from bigotry or discrimination. If nothing else, I explicitly said in my original post that I welcome American doctors.

W.E.I.R.D. population (read more about it) are much more likely to be better in those operating standards and when it comes to the general level of acceptance as compared to non-W.E.I.R.D. population that most of us non-western immigrants are a part of.

True. But I hope you are not trying to imply that therefore I as a non-white person have no right to point out racism or xenophobia when I encountered it.

If you volunteer at hospitals, food banks, events, etc and see just how badly some of them are suffering, you'll forget their privilege. There are so many things there that are worth understanding.

I don't think I want to engage in the exercise of totting up the amount of "suffering" or "happiness" experienced by white versus non-white folks in Canada, and draw any conclusions based on it. My comment re: "intangible privilege" was narrowly focused on the encounter of racism, which you have to grant is experienced mostly by non-white folks.