Should I lie about the salary of my last job in the interview?

[mrbeachman]

I just googled if maybe I was crazy to think that it is highly immoral or unethical to ask a T4 from a potential employee.

It seems like I am quite normal in assuming that recruiter like torontosm is a scummy recruiter. Anyway, read for yourself. A Canadian forum.

Just remember... if you ever encounter a recruiter like torontosm, just walk away.

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/prospective-emploer-asks-t4-before-making-offer-1008596/

It is funny that a recruiter like torontosm is preaching about "loose morals", hence I urge every potential immigrant to learn a very important word. The word is "hypocrite" and Canada is full of them.

Kind Regards

 

[on-hold]

I just googled if maybe I was crazy to think that it is highly immoral or unethical to ask a T4 from a potential employee.

It seems like I am quite normal in assuming that recruiter like torontosm is a scummy recruiter. Anyway, read for yourself. A Canadian forum.

Just remember... if you ever encounter a recruiter like torontosm, just walk away.

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/prospective-emploer-asks-t4-before-making-offer-1008596/

It is funny that a recruiter like torontosm is preaching about "loose morals", hence I urge every potential immigrant to learn a very important word. The word is "hypocrite" and Canada is full of them.

Kind Regards

I just want to point out that this is a major difference between the States and Canada (which one person on your link pointed out). In the States, there is a common assumption that the employer can basically do anything they want; in Canada, not so much. A closely related point to this is in America, at least, companies very often have policies that if you work there, you can't disclose how much you earn to other employees -- this is basically to prevent people who do equal work from discovering that one of them makes far less than the other. Often, these disparities begin because one comes from a job that pays less, has to disclose it, and finds themselves unable to negotiate effectively.

At heart, it's a social difference. There are far fewer people in Canada who support this form of authoritarianism -- just look at the comments on the thread. In the U.S., their ratio would be reversed. It's the same reason that here in Canada you sometimes read about police officers being charged with serious crimes for on-the-job infractions, something that is very rare in America. There is no real law you can point to, it's simply a matter of culture.

 

[torontosm]

I just googled if maybe I was crazy to think that it is highly immoral or unethical to ask a T4 from a potential employee.

It seems like I am quite normal in assuming that recruiter like torontosm is a scummy recruiter. Anyway, read for yourself. A Canadian forum.

Just remember... if you ever encounter a recruiter like torontosm, just walk away.

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/prospective-emploer-asks-t4-before-making-offer-1008596/

It is funny that a recruiter like torontosm is preaching about "loose morals", hence I urge every potential immigrant to learn a very important word. The word is "hypocrite" and Canada is full of them.

Kind Regards

You clown, I'm not a recruiter. I work for a very large and well established global company and was speaking about our practices when hiring. We don't normally ask for T4's, but would in the case we encountered people who were frivolous with the truth like yourself.

 

[mrbeachman]

You clown, I'm not a recruiter. I work for a very large and well established global company and was speaking about our practices when hiring. We don't normally ask for T4's, but would in the case we encountered people who were frivolous with the truth like yourself.

Like I said, I urge everyone to learn the word hypocrite. Lying and morally bankrupt scummy employers like torontosm are dime a dozen in Canada.

Employers can check your salary by asking you to present your T4 or other proof of income prior to extending an offer. The firm I work for does this regularly, particularly when the stated salary appears suspect.

 

[zardoz]

To get back to the very first question... If a new employer catches you in a "lie" during the interview, why should they trust you not to "lie" when it suits you, during your employment with them.
Choosing to "refuse to disclose" is however, a completely different ball-game.

I work with/for people that, if they EVER catch you in a "lie", it's game over... Period.

You can have disclosed all sorts of unpleasant things about yourself and your history, and that's OK. Because you didn't lie, they can work with that and trust you.

 

[torontosm]

Like I said, I urge everyone to learn the word hypocrite. Lying and morally bankrupt scummy employers like torontosm are dime a dozen in Canada.

You are accusing me of being morally bankrupt while the entire premise of your arguments on this thread is that it's OK to lie. Perhaps you should take your own advice and look up the word "Hypocrite". Fools like yourself who think that rules don't apply to them are a dime a dozen everywhere, and never seem to be able to progress in life.

Lie if you want, but you will eventually get caught. And ALL employers reserve the right to terminate employees for misrepresentation.

 

[on-hold]

This idea that any lie is an absolute wrong is a bit misplaced -- there are many things that an employer could ask about, that make sense from their point of view, that in my opinion an applicant would be justified in lying about, or declining to disclose. Many of these would cause prejudice with the refusal to answer, and a lie would simply be a more appropriate response to the request. In my opinion, examples could include:

- marital status
- disability status, outside ability to perform the job
- pregnancy status
- sexual orientation
- gender/transgender switch
- credit history (might depend on the job and the reason for lying, haven't thought about it extensively)
- health
- country of birth
- appearance (at the initial application stage, requesting a photo)


For each of these, it's easy to imagine situations in which the person being interviewed would have strong and valid reasons for feeling that the question is out of line. Personally, I think that it is far more appropriate for an employer to ask about salary expectation -- the idea that they ask about past salary, and then need to see a T4 in order to 'test' the applicant, is a bit absurd. You could apply that standard of privilege to any question at all: "I need to see a picture of your wife", "Your credit history isn't important, but I need to see if you were truthful about it", "I don't care if you're an immigrant, but I'd like to check that you were really born in Canada like you say", and so forth. Of course, for situations like federal employment where there is a statutory requirement to check some of these, it's OK.

 

[torontosm]

This idea that any lie is an absolute wrong is a bit misplaced -- there are many things that an employer could ask about, that make sense from their point of view, that in my opinion an applicant would be justified in lying about, or declining to disclose. Many of these would cause prejudice with the refusal to answer, and a lie would simply be a more appropriate response to the request. In my opinion, examples could include:

- marital status
- disability status, outside ability to perform the job
- pregnancy status
- sexual orientation
- gender/transgender switch
- credit history (might depend on the job and the reason for lying, haven't thought about it extensively)
- health
- country of birth
- appearance (at the initial application stage, requesting a photo)


For each of these, it's easy to imagine situations in which the person being interviewed would have strong and valid reasons for feeling that the question is out of line. Personally, I think that it is far more appropriate for an employer to ask about salary expectation -- the idea that they ask about past salary, and then need to see a T4 in order to 'test' the applicant, is a bit absurd. You could apply that standard of privilege to any question at all: "I need to see a picture of your wife", "Your credit history isn't important, but I need to see if you were truthful about it", "I don't care if you're an immigrant, but I'd like to check that you were really born in Canada like you say", and so forth. Of course, for situations like federal employment where there is a statutory requirement to check some of these, it's OK.

I fully agree with you that declining to disclose personal information is perfectly acceptable. However, I maintain that blatantly lying about anything is wrong.

As for "testing" the applicant, many firms do reference checks which are exactly that.

 

[lpc19800]

Just to add my two cents here
I AM a corporate recruiter (ie I am not earning commission when I hire someone and recruit solely for my employer).

One the subject of lying about salary:
- if you feel under paid then I would still recommend disclosing your current salary and explaining why you feel underpaid. A good recruiter/HR person would ask you what you feel is a good salary - anything over about 10-15% should be justified with a sensible answer (I'd include information on market research you've done and other positions you've applied for). One person I spoke to very recently was very obviously taken advantage of when he transferred with his company to the US and paid way below what is expect. His expectations were a little on the high side but for the most part, were justified.
- companies ask about salary to make sure that if offer stage is reached there isn't a disconnect and that your expectations can be matched.
- I would never recommend being untruthful about salary - I've never and would never request a t4.

I agree that people should be paid on the merits of their ability to perform a job and that previous salary should have no bearing but 1) companies are always wanting to cut costs - why pay someone $50k when they are earning $40k and would happily join for $45k. Yes I question internal equity and problems getting raises in the future but unfortunately that's not always considered by management. 2) there are some scenarios where taking into account previous salary is actually useful 3) companies also want to benchmark competition and market rates

On the subject of other questions:
- in ontario it's illegal to ask about marital status, disability, sexual orientation etc as it's classed as discrimination. Lying about something such as this should never happen as the question shouldn't be raised - either directly or indirectly.
If I want to relocate someone from out of province or overseas, I cannot even ask them who would be relocating with them as this could solicit an answer about family background - even though it's an entirely practical question which I know has no bearing on a hiring decision, it's still considered a discrimination risk.
- note that I am unsure about other provinces but other countries where I have worked are similar in this approach.

Good luck with whatever you decide

 

[mrbeachman]

I've never and would never request a t4.

Thank you.

Because it is a disgusting thing to do.

 

[enkins87]

If you can be sure, that your new employment has no connection to your old, that go for it...but don't exaggerate it, as they will check it then definetly

 

[buliwyf]

As a general rule:

1. It is not ideal for Employers to ask for your T4, or your previous salary.
2. It is not ideal for a potential Employee to lie about his/her previous salary.

Either way, the interviewer and interviewee should NOT be talking about this topic.