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RO requirement for applying citizenship

MrskT

Member
Oct 4, 2015
17
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Hi immigration expert, I am a university student and I have a valid PR card issued early this month valid until Oct 2020. I have lived in Canada continuously from July 7, 2013 until now for more than 800 days. I am thinking of applying for citizenship originally next year but now the rule is 4/6 years. So, I have to wait until Aug 2017 because I am out of Canada most days from July 2010-2013 before returning permanently in on July 7, 2013.

My questions are:
- Can I apply by Aug 2017 assuming I do not go out for significant period and can fulfill 4 years in 6 years, because there is rule that I have to stay at least 183 days in each calendar year counting towards the 4 years. So if I want to start counting from July 7, 2013 to August 7, 2017. I have lived here more than 4 years, but in 2013, I stayed less than 183 days.

- I plan to take a master degree overseas after August 2017, if I apply for citizenship by then, can I go out of Canada during the processing of my citizenship application? I heard it will take many months.

Pls kindly help to brighten my understanding. I am eager to be a citizen but I would like to also pursue a study outside the country and gain some working experience somewhere else before finally returning again.
 

Valhalla

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MrskT said:
Hi immigration expert, I am a university student and I have a valid PR card issued early this month valid until Oct 2020. I have lived in Canada continuously from July 7, 2013 until now for more than 800 days. I am thinking of applying for citizenship originally next year but now the rule is 4/6 years. So, I have to wait until Aug 2017 because I am out of Canada most days from July 2010-2013 before returning permanently in on July 7, 2013.

My questions are:
- Can I apply by Aug 2017 assuming I do not go out for significant period and can fulfill 4 years in 6 years, because there is rule that I have to stay at least 183 days in each calendar year counting towards the 4 years. So if I want to start counting from July 7, 2013 to August 7, 2017. I have lived here more than 4 years, but in 2013, I stayed less than 183 days.

- I plan to take a master degree overseas after August 2017, if I apply for citizenship by then, can I go out of Canada during the processing of my citizenship application? I heard it will take many months.

Pls kindly help to brighten my understanding. I am eager to be a citizen but I would like to also pursue a study outside the country and gain some working experience somewhere else before finally returning again.
Okay, you are mixing residency requirements to apply for citizenship AND to not loose your permanent resident status... very simple, under the new rules you are eligible to apply for Canadian citizenship only after of four (4) years as a PERMANENT RESIDENT, which means, sometime October, 2019 you might be able to apply.
 

MrskT

Member
Oct 4, 2015
17
1
Hi Valhalla, mayI clarify, why September 2019. I have been PR since Dec 2007. I just recently got my PR card renewed. However, I have not lived 4 years in the past 6 years for now. So, isn't it possible for me to apply by August 2017 if I have lived in Canada for 4 years in the past 6 years. Thank you...
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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MrskT said:
Hi immigration expert, I am a university student and I have a valid PR card issued early this month valid until Oct 2020. I have lived in Canada continuously from July 7, 2013 until now for more than 800 days. I am thinking of applying for citizenship originally next year but now the rule is 4/6 years. So, I have to wait until Aug 2017 because I am out of Canada most days from July 2010-2013 before returning permanently in on July 7, 2013.

My questions are:
- Can I apply by Aug 2017 assuming I do not go out for significant period and can fulfill 4 years in 6 years, because there is rule that I have to stay at least 183 days in each calendar year counting towards the 4 years. So if I want to start counting from July 7, 2013 to August 7, 2017. I have lived here more than 4 years, but in 2013, I stayed less than 183 days.

- I plan to take a master degree overseas after August 2017, if I apply for citizenship by then, can I go out of Canada during the processing of my citizenship application? I heard it will take many months.

Pls kindly help to brighten my understanding. I am eager to be a citizen but I would like to also pursue a study outside the country and gain some working experience somewhere else before finally returning again.
MrskT said:
Hi Valhalla, may I clarify, why September 2019. I have been PR since Dec 2007. I just recently got my PR card renewed. However, I have not lived 4 years in the past 6 years for now. So, isn't it possible for me to apply by August 2017 if I have lived in Canada for 4 years in the past 6 years. Thank you...
I am NO immigration expert. I can, however, offer the following:

CIC web sites to look at:

1. CIC page regarding eligibility, titled: Determine your eligibility - Citizenship

2. CIC page with more information about applying for citizenship

3. CIC page with links to forms to use

4. CIC page with Guide for applying for citizenship

The minimum amount of physical presence in Canada is FOUR years within six; this means 1460 days actually physically present in Canada. Emphasis on days present NOT period of residence.

In addition to the minimum presence overall (the 4/6 rule), the applicant must also have been physically present 183 days in each of four calendar years within the six years preceding the date of applying.

Be aware that requirements are always subject to change.

Your numbers:

If you returned to Canada July 7, 2013 and only travel outside Canada briefly, under the current requirements (which, again, are always subject to change), you could meet the 4X183 rule sometime in 2017 (after you have been present in Canada for at least 183 days in 2017), based on 183+ days presence in 2014, 2015, 2016, and finally in 2017.

You also have to meet the 1460 days in Canada part. If you returned July 7, 2013, and never left you could meet this part by July 8, 2017. Thus, for however many days you are outside Canada in the meantime, add that number beyond July 8, 2017 and that is the earliest date you can meet the presence requirements.

It is a good idea to wait to apply with a margin over the minimum. In the past many have thought a week or three is plenty. A month or more seems like a better idea to me.

There are additional requirements as well, including compliance with tax filing obligations, intent to reside, no unfulfilled conditions, knowledge of Canada, language, among others such as those related to having no criminal convictions or charges. And again, these could change.
 

MrskT

Member
Oct 4, 2015
17
1
Dear Dpenabill, thank you for answering. I am thinking of applying sometimes in October 2017 to enaure I have 1 month more at least than 1460 days. I am curioua if I have to be in Canada during the time my citizenship is being assesed. The issue is I plan to take a master degree overseas for a couple years. Can I do that during my citizenship file is in process? Of course not continuous two years. I want to be citizen soon.
 

neutral

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MrskT said:
Dear Dpenabill, thank you for answering. I am thinking of applying sometimes in October 2017 to enaure I have 1 month more at least than 1460 days. I am curioua if I have to be in Canada during the time my citizenship is being assesed. The issue is I plan to take a master degree overseas for a couple years. Can I do that during my citizenship file is in process? Of course not continuous two years. I want to be citizen soon.
Now there is a clause about your intent to reside in Canada, so going to study a master could be a problem, yes.
 

MrskT

Member
Oct 4, 2015
17
1
Hi Neutral, so if I apply for citizenship, I have to be in Canada during the period of the application? I can not even go out of Canada? Is there any rule stating how many days max I can be out during the application period? Thank you.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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MrskT said:
I am thinking of applying sometimes in October 2017 to enaure I have 1 month more at least than 1460 days. I am curioua if I have to be in Canada during the time my citizenship is being assesed. The issue is I plan to take a master degree overseas for a couple years. Can I do that during my citizenship file is in process? Of course not continuous two years. I want to be citizen soon.

MrskT said:
Hi Neutral, so if I apply for citizenship, I have to be in Canada during the period of the application? I can not even go out of Canada? Is there any rule stating how many days max I can be out during the application period? Thank you.
Ordinarily it is probably premature to try planning years in advance for when-to-apply. Stuff happens. And the rules can change in the meantime.

But of course long-term planning is often necessary for those pursuing advanced degree programs in particular fields.

There is no clear or reliable guideline about going abroad while the application is pending. There is no restriction which prohibits travel abroad. But even under the old law, residing abroad while the application is pending could be problematic. Not that residing abroad was a disqualification. It has been more about how CIC scrutinizes applicants who CIC has identified as living abroad, working abroad, spending extended periods of time abroad, or otherwise is an applicant CIC perceives to have applied-on-the-way-to-the-airport.

And as already noted, the requirements which took effect in June this year include a requirement that the applicant intend to continue residing in Canada if granted citizenship. This is new. None of us can really say how CIC will approach applying this requirement. Speculation has varied wildly. Minister Alexander (probably to be replaced soon) and CIC generally have intimated a formal affirmation of intent will suffice, but it seems almost certain there will be more to it than that.

Among the more salient issues which Bill C-24 (the SCCA) generally, and the so-called intent to reside clause in particular, was intended to address was the perceived problem sometimes described as applicants applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport. And, as already noted, even for those applicants who applied before the intent to reside clause took effect, CIC has long tended to elevate the scrutiny, impose RQ, delay processing, and perhaps go so far as to dig deep in search of reasons to deny citizenship, if it appeared the applicant was living abroad while the application was pending. Not always. No where near uniformly. Some have been affected far more severely than others. Not randomly or capriciously, but not easily predictable either.

My guess is that the intent to reside clause was mostly implemented to target applicants who go abroad while the application is pending. Its literal meaning suggests that residing abroad while the application is pending is practically precluded, since a person cannot intend to continue residing anywhere other than where they are currently residing. My sense is that the term "continue" was explicitly included so that CIC could deny any applicant who is identified as residing abroad.

There are no fixed parameters for what constitutes residing abroad. There are no specified instructions or guidelines from CIC as to what it will consider to constitute no longer intending to continue to reside in Canada.

And it could be a long time before there are any reports about how this goes, let alone enough to draw some conclusions about CIC's approach, since as yet there are probably relatively few applications being processed under the new requirements (for the vast majority of PRs approaching eligibility for citizenship, the increase in minimum presence in Canada and elimination of credit for non-PR time, essentially bumped the filing of new applications for an additional year at minimum).

In two weeks Canada will elect a new Parliament. Whether the trends of the last many years will continue is an unknown. The Liberals and the NDP have both vowed to repeal parts of Bill C-24. And if either of them forms the next government, there are bound to be some changes in how CIC approaches things. But this is all very unpredictable. The election is a horse race with no horse pulling ahead, no horse even managing to get into stride. And CIC is a huge bureaucracy, and bureaucracies tend to have great inertia, meaning that whatever trends there are will likely continue for some time regardless of who forms the next government.

If Canadian citizenship is important to you, probably prudent to make a concerted effort to plan staying in Canada for at least a year beyond the prospective date of applying. It is worth remembering that there are other logistical concerns attendant going abroad while the application is pending. CIC tends to give short notice for tests and interviews, and for the oath. The consequences for missing a scheduled event can be draconian, and under current policy the fact that the applicant was abroad is explicitly rejected as a reason for excusing a failure to appear when scheduled.
 

MrskT

Member
Oct 4, 2015
17
1
Dear Dpenabill, I understand your point. I plan to apply as soon as I am qualified and will wait until it is approved. There is a statement saying that we can apply for urgent application if there is reason that will cause us disadvantage by not getting citizenship soon enough. Do you know what is that reason to be that is acceptable for the CIC to approve urgent application?

Going for vacation for 1 month or two should be considered acceptable I assume, while waiting to be a Canadian citizen?
 

neutral

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MrskT said:
Hi Neutral, so if I apply for citizenship, I have to be in Canada during the period of the application? I can not even go out of Canada? Is there any rule stating how many days max I can be out during the application period? Thank you.
Of course you can go out, we are free to travel but one thing is to travel abroad and other thing is to live abroad.

No, the clause talks about intent to reside, so it's subjective, not objective.
 

neutral

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MrskT said:
Dear Dpenabill, I understand your point. I plan to apply as soon as I am qualified and will wait until it is approved. There is a statement saying that we can apply for urgent application if there is reason that will cause us disadvantage by not getting citizenship soon enough. Do you know what is that reason to be that is acceptable for the CIC to approve urgent application?

Going for vacation for 1 month or two should be considered acceptable I assume, while waiting to be a Canadian citizen?
What you are asking is in the CIC web page: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/become-urgent.asp

Examples of when we may process an application for citizenship urgently:

You can't apply for a job or could lose your job because you are not a Canadian citizen.
You cannot go to a Canadian school, college or university because you are not a Canadian citizen.
You need to travel because of death or serious illness in the family and cannot get a passport in your current nationality.
You received a decision on a previous application for citizenship that you successfully appealed to the Federal Court.

I don't see nothing about studying a master abroad...
 

MrskT

Member
Oct 4, 2015
17
1
Thank you Neutral. Btw, do you know what job requires only canadian citizen? Is it government job? I am still studying and only have student part time job now. I do not know what job I can not apply if I am not citizen yet.
 

Leon

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As far as I know, the only jobs where you might have to be a citizen would be government jobs.

However, instead of looking for loopholes, just accept the rules and stay in Canada during your processing time. The world will not end if your studies get delayed by 1 or 2 years. During these 1-2 years, you could be gaining valuable work experience or doing other studies.
 

MrskT

Member
Oct 4, 2015
17
1
Hi Leon, I am not looking for loopholes, just curious about jobs that are not for PRs. I have not looked for serious jobs yet but I would like to work for the governments eventually if I have the opportunity. Thank you for responding. Appreciate your perspective.

Neutral, thank you. Will be useful for me too.