Repercussions for not renouncing PR status

[echo45]

Hi,

I did not fulfill the required 730 days RO to renew my PR status which expired in oct 2013.
I also did not apply to renew my PR status as I am quite sure it will not be approved.
Is it absolutely necessary for me to renounce my PR status or is it alright just to leave matters as it is.
Any idea how long will it take to get approval for an application to renounce PR status.

 

[zardoz]

Hi,

I did not fulfill the required 730 days RO to renew my PR status which expired in oct 2013.
I also did not apply to renew my PR status as I am quite sure it will not be approved.
Is it absolutely necessary for me to renounce my PR status or is it alright just to leave matters as it is.
Any idea how long will it take to get approval for an application to renounce PR status.

Are you in Canada, and if not, do you want to be in Canada? Normally, you can just leave things as they are. There is no penalty for having an expired PR CARD. Your PR STATUS doesn't expire. Only the CARD does.

 

[echo45]

Hi Zardoz,

Thank you for your reply.
I am not in Canada but thinking of visiting the country later this year.
Since there is no chance of getting a Travel Document, I understand from the CIC website that I will have to renounce my PR status to gain entry.
But citizens of my country (Singapore) does not need a visa to visit Canada. Will it be safe for me to just visit Canada later this year without applying to renounce my PR status. Will the Immigration Officer not allow me to enter the country and force me to take the next flight back.
Thanking you in advance.

 

[zardoz]

Hi Zardoz,

Thank you for your reply.
I am not in Canada but thinking of visiting the country later this year.
Since there is no chance of getting a Travel Document, I understand from the CIC website that I will have to renounce my PR status to gain entry.
But citizens of my country (Singapore) does not need a visa to visit Canada. Will it be safe for me to just visit Canada later this year without applying to renounce my PR status. Will the Immigration Officer not allow me to enter the country and force me to take the next flight back.
Thanking you in advance.

You should be able to make a visit but at Immigration in Canada, you may be reported for the failure to meet the residency obligation. You will be permitted to enter Canada, because at that point you are still a PR. They might offer you the option to renounce PR there and then. Just decline the offer and let due process continue. You may have only one shot however, as you may lose your PR status as the result of being reported. After that, you will be a "foreign national" visitor on future visits.

 

[MarioYYZ]

Or, you could apply for a TD anyway. Your status will be automatically revoked when your application for a TD is refused, and when you arrive in Canada you can enter as a visitor.

 

[david1697]

There are no repercussions for not renouncing PR status.
There is no law in existence that makes you "guilty" of not fulfilling RO or not renouncing PR.

Ivan Pavlov made experiments with animals in 1890's (you may have heard about 'Pavlov's Dogs'), and discovered what we describe as classical conditioning.
If you show meat to your dog and ring a bell , all the time, eventually your dog will salivate at the sound of the bell (and without presence of the meat).

Something similar is going on with PR RO and any repercussions associated with it. It's a case of classical conditioning.

The fact is: it's not the failure to meet RO that causes people legal trouble, it's something else ,such as misrepresentation of presence in PR renewal application, or in a Citizenship application, giving misleading or outright false answers to CBSA officer at the border to overcome RO and so on.
However, since these two things (failing to meet RO and criminal violations) often reported in the news stories together, eventually everyone gets the impression that there is something unlawful and criminal about not meeting RO per se, and that there could be "repercussions" for mere failure of RO or for not renouncing PR due to failed RO.

Rest assured that nothing terrible (such as jail-time, conviction of crime and etc.) will happen to you if you let yourself fail RO and never renounce your PR status. You will remain a PR de Jure , while de Facto you may be at risk of loss of your status anytime you attempt to do certain things (with loss guaranteed if you apply for Travel Doc from abroad, or other benefit, like PR Renewal from within, and highly likely if you are abroad and ever apply for admission at any port of entry and examined by CBSA officer).
In some cases, if upon discretion of CBSA you are allowed to enter Canada without being reported, despite failed RO, you can fully restore all the privileges by staying in Canada for 730 days.

CIC itself states that you don't have to renounce your PR status if you wish to visit Canada as a visitor, but you would save processing time at border if you formally renounced your status before returning to Canada, if you know your PR status is subject to revocation and you have no intention to contest it, but wish to enter Canada as a visitor.

 

[SUZROA]

There are no repercussions for not renouncing PR status.
There is no law in existence that makes you "guilty" of not fulfilling RO or not renouncing PR.

Ivan Pavlov made experiments with animals in 1890's (you may have heard about 'Pavlov's Dogs'), and discovered what we describe as classical conditioning.
If you show meat to your dog and ring a bell , all the time, eventually your dog will salivate at the sound of the bell (and without presence of the meat).

Something similar is going on with PR RO and any repercussions associated with it. It's a case of classical conditioning.

The fact is: it's not the failure to meet RO that causes people legal trouble, it's something else ,such as misrepresentation of presence in PR renewal application, or in a Citizenship application, giving misleading or outright false answers to CBSA officer at the border to overcome RO and so on.
However, since these two things (failing to meet RO and criminal violations) often reported in the news stories together, eventually everyone gets the impression that there is something unlawful and criminal about not meeting RO per se, and that there could be "repercussions" for mere failure of RO or for not renouncing PR due to failed RO.

Rest assured that nothing terrible (such as jail-time, conviction of crime and etc.) will happen to you if you let yourself fail RO and never renounce your PR status. You will remain a PR de Jure , while de Facto you may be at risk of loss of your status anytime you attempt to do certain things (with loss guaranteed if you apply for Travel Doc from abroad, or other benefit, like PR Renewal from within, and highly likely if you are abroad and ever apply for admission at any port of entry and examined by CBSA officer).
In some cases, if upon discretion of CBSA you are allowed to enter Canada without being reported, despite failed RO, you can fully restore all the privileges by staying in Canada for 730 days.

CIC itself states that you don't have to renounce your PR status if you wish to visit Canada as a visitor, but you would save processing time at border if you formally renounced your status before returning to Canada, if you know your PR status is subject to revocation and you have no intention to contest it, but wish to enter Canada as a visitor.

David, thank you for this lovely description of the PR status and not meeting RO. Could I ask your opinion of trying to find out if PR status is still valid by completing the VOS form, and could this cause problems?

I am returning to Canada this year, I landed in 1977 and left in 2002 with a 'Returning PR document,', that was to expire in 12 to 24 months. I have always visited as 'Visitor status' ever since, and not stayed as a returned PR since. I always presumed my PR had been revoked ( pavlovs dog mentality I guess), is there anyway I can find my status, other than at the border?
Thank you,
Suzroa

 

[Monet44]

i only found out that I was still a PR when I applied for an eta in order to transit through vancouver airport - I thought that my visa expired at the same time as my old passport - I found out different when asked the question have you ever had a visa - as I had nothing to hide or any other reason to say no - I said yes !!! Thus started this long involved issue - I did as I was asked and applied to renounce my PR - sent in all the documents and proof of my citizenship in a country that is considered visa exempt - New Zealand to be exact. I was contacted and asked to send a letter of explanation as to why I wanted to renounce I guess - I did that - even though I figured it was obvious - apparently not. Anyway - that was sent 7 days ago - so much for they will let you know in 72 hours - !! I am still waiting - as my flight I am meant to catch departs vancouver on August 2 and it is now July 14 - and I am starting to worry that they are not going to have this all done prior to my day of departure - I am thinking that it might be a smart move to cancel my plans and wait it out - hopefully for not too long. Its like I cannot come back but they wont let me leave either kind of deal.

 

[Bs65]

i only found out that I was still a PR when I applied for an eta in order to transit through vancouver airport - I thought that my visa expired at the same time as my old passport - I found out different when asked the question have you ever had a visa - as I had nothing to hide or any other reason to say no - I said yes !!! Thus started this long involved issue - I did as I was asked and applied to renounce my PR - sent in all the documents and proof of my citizenship in a country that is considered visa exempt - New Zealand to be exact. I was contacted and asked to send a letter of explanation as to why I wanted to renounce I guess - I did that - even though I figured it was obvious - apparently not. Anyway - that was sent 7 days ago - so much for they will let you know in 72 hours - !! I am still waiting - as my flight I am meant to catch departs vancouver on August 2 and it is now July 14 - and I am starting to worry that they are not going to have this all done prior to my day of departure - I am thinking that it might be a smart move to cancel my plans and wait it out - hopefully for not too long. Its like I cannot come back but they wont let me leave either kind of deal.

Did you renounce via paper or did you link the letter re the ETA to a MYCIC account and send the renounce form online ? The latter would be processed a lot quicker.

 

[Monet44]

oh I did it online - but noticed last night that even though I sent it all to them on July 4 - it had only just been "read" by them on the 14th - I guess they must be busy - so hopefully I will hear by next week.

 

[Nadia1234]

oh I did it online - but noticed last night that even though I sent it all to them on July 4 - it had only just been "read" by them on the 14th - I guess they must be busy - so hopefully I will hear by next week.

I am in the same position, permanent resident card expired (applied for an eta and have a flight this Saturday) and have received only an email saying that they require additional documents from me. When I go into the application there are no documents listed and no messages on my online account saying anything about permanent residence status or documents. Was this the same for you initially? Or did you straight away receive a email saying you couldn't apply as you were a PR?

 

[Monet44]

I left canada years ago even before they brought in permanent resident cards - and had no idea at all that i was still a PR. So when I booked my flight it was only at that time that I found I needed an eta - thinking that I would get one quickly I was not worried. I answered their questions honestly and said yes to the question had I ever had a visa - that is when everything stopped and I had to apply to have my PR renounced. Take a good look at the application you have to download it - fill it out and then send it to them on a secure site. You are not going to get it through by this Saturday - I had to cancel my flight and re book - I am flying out at the end of this month. Once I got it right - my PR was renounced very quickly and I got my eta the same day. Good luck.

 

[wouter]

I left canada years ago even before they brought in permanent resident cards - and had no idea at all that i was still a PR. So when I booked my flight it was only at that time that I found I needed an eta - thinking that I would get one quickly I was not worried. I answered their questions honestly and said yes to the question had I ever had a visa - that is when everything stopped and I had to apply to have my PR renounced. Take a good look at the application you have to download it - fill it out and then send it to them on a secure site. You are not going to get it through by this Saturday - I had to cancel my flight and re book - I am flying out at the end of this month. Once I got it right - my PR was renounced very quickly and I got my eta the same day. Good luck.

How long did the process for revoking your PR status take? I am in a similar situation. I have submitted the requested documents a more than a week ago through their online system and I havent heard back. My flight to Canada is in 2 days. I have tried contacting embassies and IRCC to get any information on what the processing times are for renouncing the PR status but nothing has come out of that.
any information is welcome. thanks

 

[Monet44]

in my case - I first applied around the beginning of July and I got my PR revoked on July 19th and I got my eta on the same day - as I said I cancelled my flight because I realized it might take longer than I had - but in actual fact I could have kept my original flight as I got it all through by the date I was due to fly out - but I am glad I cancelled because it took the worry that I might not get it in time away.

 

[Nadia1234]

I left canada years ago even before they brought in permanent resident cards - and had no idea at all that i was still a PR. So when I booked my flight it was only at that time that I found I needed an eta - thinking that I would get one quickly I was not worried. I answered their questions honestly and said yes to the question had I ever had a visa - that is when everything stopped and I had to apply to have my PR renounced. Take a good look at the application you have to download it - fill it out and then send it to them on a secure site. You are not going to get it through by this Saturday - I had to cancel my flight and re book - I am flying out at the end of this month. Once I got it right - my PR was renounced very quickly and I got my eta the same day. Good luck.

Thank you, can I ask you how you discovered your permanent residency number after all that time? I've been making phone calls all evening and getting no where