Religious Marriage Certificate

[reddy1205]

Hi,

I have a friend who had church marriage recently in India and had registered their marriage with Marriage Registrar in India under Hindu Marriage Act, 1955.

My question is that the Marriage Certificate says that the marriage is done as per hindu rituals but the marriage was done as per christian rituals in a Church.

So while applying for spousal PR sponsorship, if we upload church marriage photos, will it be a problem for not providing any hindu marriage ritual photos etc....? Please provide the suggestions, thank you.

 

[canuck78]

Hi,

I have a friend who had church marriage recently in India and had registered their marriage with Marriage Registrar in India under Hindu Marriage Act, 1955.

My question is that the Marriage Certificate says that the marriage is done as per hindu rituals but the marriage was done as per christian rituals in a Church.

So while applying for spousal PR sponsorship, if we upload church marriage photos, will it be a problem for not providing any hindu marriage ritual photos etc....? Please provide the suggestions, thank you.

Would suggesting including a brief explanation in case there is any confusion.

 

[reddy1205]

Would suggesting including a brief explanation in case there is any confusion.

but will they consider if we provide hindu marriage certificate..?

 

[canuck78]

but will they consider if we provide hindu marriage certificate..?

They should if you explain why you received the certificate although you had a church wedding. Not well versed in registering marriages in India. Are there other options in terms of types of wedding registration?

 

[reddy1205]

They should if you explain why you received the certificate although you had a church wedding. Not well versed in registering marriages in India. Are there other options in terms of types of wedding registration?

I was thinking about registering church marriage as per Indian Government law (same like how we register Hindu marriages with Marriage Registrar) and if so how can we do that for church marriages..?

 

[reddy1205]

They should if you explain why you received the certificate although you had a church wedding. Not well versed in registering marriages in India. Are there other options in terms of types of wedding registration?

Is this church certificate valid?
Image

 

[abff08f4813c]

Is this church certificate valid?
Image

My understanding is that this is not enough by itself, you need to follow the process described in https://canada.blsattestation.com/marriage-certificate-attestation.php to get the Government of the Republic of India to attest that the documents are true and valid.

but will they consider if we provide hindu marriage certificate..?

My understanding is that Canada's IRCC will not understand such distinctions, and won't care about them. If you can get the required attestation (which is basically the Government of the Republic of India promising to the Government of Canada that the certificate is real) then IRCC will accept it, otherwise no.

I was thinking about registering church marriage as per Indian Government law (same like how we register Hindu marriages with Marriage Registrar) and if so how can we do that for church marriages..?

Yeah, so I'm also not familiar with how this works in India. This may be something you need to resolve with the Indian Government first.

You might actually have a problem - according to https://courtmarriagemumbai.com/blo...stering-their-marriage-and-how-to-avoid-them/ you can't register a Christian Church marriage under the Hindu marriage act, and it seems that a marriage incorrectly registered is not legally valid in India, as per https://www.indiamike.com/india/mar...u-act-indian-supreme-court-t67885/#post618217

These links do explain how to properly register a Christian Church marriage.

To summarize, if you can get the attestation done successfully then IRCC shouldn't give you any issues. But you might run into problems obtaining that attestation if the marriage wasn't registered properly in India - but that's solely under India, so asking on a forum like indiamike might be a better place to ask for advice on how to get that sorted out.

 

[canuck78]

My understanding is that this is not enough by itself, you need to follow the process described in https://canada.blsattestation.com/marriage-certificate-attestation.php to get the Government of the Republic of India to attest that the documents are true and valid.

My understanding is that Canada's IRCC will not understand such distinctions, and won't care about them. If you can get the required attestation (which is basically the Government of the Republic of India promising to the Government of Canada that the certificate is real) then IRCC will accept it, otherwise no.

Yeah, so I'm also not familiar with how this works in India. This may be something you need to resolve with the Indian Government first.

You might actually have a problem - according to https://courtmarriagemumbai.com/blo...stering-their-marriage-and-how-to-avoid-them/ you can't register a Christian Church marriage under the Hindu marriage act, and it seems that a marriage incorrectly registered is not legally valid in India, as per https://www.indiamike.com/india/mar...u-act-indian-supreme-court-t67885/#post618217

These links do explain how to properly register a Christian Church marriage.

To summarize, if you can get the attestation done successfully then IRCC shouldn't give you any issues. But you might run into problems obtaining that attestation if the marriage wasn't registered properly in India - but that's solely under India, so asking on a forum like indiamike might be a better place to ask for advice on how to get that sorted out.

Why do you insist on responding to old posts over and over again?

 

[abff08f4813c]

Why do you insist on responding to old posts over and over again?

A bad combo of staying up too late and doomscrolling leading to blurry eyes and misread dates.

That said - while I generally try not to post in threads inactive for years, if it's only been a handful of months or so I think it's tad more reasonable. I hope the minor disruption is worth having the answer documented in the forums (where future folks in similar situations can find the answer via search), and there's some tiny chance that the OP might come back and see it, too.

 

[saimah ali]

Hello everyone,


I need some guidance regarding my spousal sponsorship case.


I am a Pakistani citizen and my wife is a Canadian citizen (Indian origin). We met online and later met in Saudi Arabia, where we both were physically present together.


At that time, our nikah was performed through an online religious process (via video call with a molvi in Pakistan), while both of us were physically together in Saudi Arabia with witnesses.


After the nikah, we stayed together in Saudi Arabia for about 8 days, spent time together, and have full proof including:

• Travel records
• Photos and videos
• Family involvement
• Communication history

Our marriage has also been legally registered in Pakistan:

• Nikah Nama issued by authorized registrar
• Marriage Registration Certificate (MRC) issued by NADRA

My concern is:
Would this be considered a proxy marriage under Canadian immigration rules, even though both of us were physically present together at the time and the marriage was later consummated?


Has anyone had a similar case or experience?


Any guidance would be really appreciated.


Thank you.

 

[abff08f4813c]

Unfortunately I think I have some bad news for you.

At that time, our nikah was performed through an online religious process (via video call with a molvi in Pakistan), while both of us were physically together in Saudi Arabia with witnesses.

Our marriage has also been legally registered in Pakistan:

Would this be considered a proxy marriage under Canadian immigration rules, even though both of us were physically present together at the time and the marriage was later consummated?

So this part is a little confusing, it's not clear to me if IRCC will ask if it's valid as per Saudi Arabian law - that they consider the marriage to have taken place in Saudi Arabia - or Pakistanian law - and they consider the marriage to have taken place in Pakistan.


But here is how IRCC defines a proxy marriage, https://ircc.canada.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1081&top=14

> If one or both parties are not physically present at the ceremony, we won’t recognize the marriage.

So if IRCC says the marriage took place in Pakistan, then it's pretty clear to me that this is a case where both parties were not present for the marriage ceremony - only the molvi was there, and both parties attended by video call. Thus it's a proxy marriage.

Now, if IRCC says the marriage took place in Saudi Arabia, then you have a much stronger case for a non-proxy marriage, as the definition of proxy marriage doesn't mention anything about an officiant attending virtually. However, that might require some paperwork from Saudi Arabia stating that they recognize the marriage and that they agree it took place in Saudi Arabia (as opposed to a certificate saying they recognize a Pakistan-registered marriage).

Even then it's a bit iffy since, while the federal law doesn't seem to explicitly prohibit the use of a virtual officiant, I can't find a Canadian province that explicitly allows it. Quebec does not as per https://monasalehinotaire.com/can-you-have-your-civil-marriage-officiated-remotely-in-quebec/ and Ontario similarly requires the officiant to be physically present with the couple and witnesses as per https://forms.mgcs.gov.on.ca/datase...-413a-b32b-548c2e9970b9/download/on00459e.pdf


Now if you can find a Canadian province or territory that allows the officiant to perform the marriage virtually AND you can get the paperwork convincing IRCC that the marriage took place in Saudi Arabia, then I'd guess that you have a good chance to get the marriage recognized for immigration purposes.

If not - have you lived together in any one place for a minimum of one year? If so you can still come in together as common-law partners. (From a personal and religious point of view, I'd say that in such a case, the two of you are obviously married as husband and wife, and it's just a legal technicality that you need to get recognized under an alternative scheme for immigration purposes, but this is not a statement that you two are in fact unmarried - it's about whether a marriage meets the requirements to be recognized, but an unrecognized marriage can and is still very real from a personal and religious perspective.)

 

[armoured]

> If one or both parties are not physically present at the ceremony, we won’t recognize the marriage.

So if IRCC says the marriage took place in Pakistan, then it's pretty clear to me that this is a case where both parties were not present for the marriage ceremony - only the molvi was there, and both parties attended by video call. Thus it's a proxy marriage.

Now, if IRCC says the marriage took place in Saudi Arabia,

Overall I agree with your approach, although I admit I don't know and would note that the "both parties" not physically present at the marriage could refer to as both being represented by another person (the literal sense of proxy). Hence it could equally come down to question of whether the 'ceremony' took place where the officiant is, or where the objects of the ceremony.

I could argue either point, really - and it comes down to it's a legal question (is it allowed ot have the objects outside the country, etc).

I think the better solution would be to get married again in a place where both are present. Whether that's practical - different question.

Can't resolve the practical question? Hire a lawyer.

 

[abff08f4813c]

Agree with all your advice here.

although I admit I don't know and would note that the "both parties" not physically present at the marriage could refer to as both being represented by another person (the literal sense of proxy).

I consider this pretty settled. Because of COVID, California and a few other US states went ahead and allowed marriage over zoom - where both parties attended at the time, but at least one did it over a zoom call.

This thus comes up a lot since some of these folks then try to immigrate to Canada together but aren't treated as legally married, as explained in https://www.migrationlawgroup.com/post/can-i-sponsor-my-partner-after-marrying-on-zoom

The original IRCC link I had, while perhaps being blurry on the definition of the word proxy specifically, is also pretty clear overall: https://ircc.canada.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1081&top=14

> Does IRCC recognize marriages conducted by proxy, telephone, internet and fax?
> No. We don’t recognize these types of marriages.

I'd say a video call clearly fits in either the telephone or internet categories, so at least in my mind this seems pretty much a settled question.