Rejected CEC application - basis for appeal?

[Suddenly Susan]

not al all lol. i believe this is not a question about bowp or cec, this is a question about how the interpret implied status. i personally have a reason to believe they don't count any experience gained during implied status towards 12 month excperience. i know what regulations say and it would make perfect sense to consider implied status as an extension of your work permit to count it but i don't think they share the same logic. apparently they extend your status during this time but you cant use it to gain anything from it because too many ppl would abuse it. i had a similar experience about using implied status as an extension of my wp but cc said NO u cannot use this period for the purpose for applying for something else

 

[LPS]

not al all lol. i believe this is not a question about bowp or cec, this is a question about how the interpret implied status. i personally have a reason to believe they don't count any experience gained during implied status towards 12 month excperience. i know what regulations say and it would make perfect sense to consider implied status as an extension of your work permit to count it but i don't think they share the same logic. apparently they extend your status during this time but you cant use it to gain anything from it because too many ppl would abuse it. i had a similar experience about using implied status as an extension of my wp but cc said NO u cannot use this period for the purpose for applying for something else

These are two separate issues though:

(a) When you're applying for BOWP, or to extend a work permit, does implied status count as a 'valid permit'? Clearly it doesn't, otherwise people could game the system by making repeated frivolous work permit applications, chaining periods of implied status together and thereby maintaining their status indefinitely.

(b) Does work experience gained during periods of implied status accrue toward the required work experience for CEC? The standard here is that work not be done during unauthorized periods of work, and implied status is not 'unauthorized'.

 

[Suddenly Susan]

yea it all makes perfect sense but the applicant did get refused despite what you all think it's illogical. infact they are quoting similar reasons that they gave me from call center in my case: you didn't have a work permit period. so u explain that. i personally learnt that their logic is different from our online forum logic. im not saying that's how it should be or that it makes sense or that its fair. it doesnt make sense and its not fair but that's how they do it and thats it...
i searched help with lawers too but despite obvious rules from statutes they still no lawyer couln't answer my simple question: if my wp is extended by law how can they not take it under consideration??? they keep saying it's up to the officer. how can it be up to officer if it says it is extended?!?!?!?! i just had to face the fact that i guess that is not a simple question and that its not fair and it doesnt make sense BUT THEY DO IT THEIR WAY!!!

 

[LPS]

The rules on the subject could be clearer, I think we can agree on that.

I hope the OP does make an appeal and provides an update on the outcome!

 

[Suddenly Susan]

i agree with that. i come from legal profession and know for a fact that practice is not always consistant with statutes. sad but true some authorites apply rules literally while others think outside the box by seeking the purpose of each rule and ask if purpose can be achieved applying a different rule. have tons of examples. all in all i too hope he appeals so we can see what grounds they hold for their logic...deep inside i hope this decision was brought by a newbie so it can easily be abolished because that would mean hope for more of us

 

[MrB]

I think anonimo might be right. I posted several questions about using implied status between 2 periods to apply for bowp (you can check my previous postings) and eventually called the call center. They told me NO they won't consider it because my work permit expired and the ob 485-a says you need to have a valid work permit. I did quote all those nice articles from irpr, obs and processing manuals and asked how can my permit be expired when it says it is extended by law??? all they say is your work permit expired without knowing to explain why they choose to apply provisions of the ob restrictively instead of applying irpr literally. End of story. but they did emphasize that call agents don't make decisions so i guess it all depends on the particular officer. gluck with whatever you do

There are a different set of rules for BOWP.

 

[MrB]

Unfortunately I think the VO was right. During implied status you do have the valid working status but you don't have the valid wp. They actually want u to have a valid WP, NOT JUST WORKING STATUS. Work permit is not the same as working status.

As per 87.3./1/c of IRPR "the foreign national must have had temporary resident status during their period of work experience and any period of full-time study or training." During implied status, you don't have the temp.res.status used in this context. You have the right to continue working under the same conditions but your status is pending. It is 'in the air'. If basically don't have it. You get PARTIAL benefits during this phase (continue work under same conditions) but you also don't have health insurance in some provinces and I don't think you can use this period to gain any benefits later. This is not the period authorised to work (that they talk about in this context) but it is a period between 2 periods which only gives you SOME rights under certain conditions (that u submitted app for extension and same employer..yada yada.
I might be wrong but I don't think you can use the period between 2 work permits to gain any rights, this is basically just a bridge between those 2 periods.

Working status is not the same as work permit. Implied status period gives you the benefits of a working status but NOT of the work permit.

What does "working status" even mean? It's simply means you are permitted to work during a period of time under the law. There's no legislation that backs what you say about not being able to use it to "acquire benefits". So until then we can all state our opinions but the law available is the standard and based on the law, implied work status will qualify.

 

[MrB]

These are two separate issues though:

(a) When you're applying for BOWP, or to extend a work permit, does implied status count as a 'valid permit'? Clearly it doesn't, otherwise people could game the system by making repeated frivolous work permit applications, chaining periods of implied status together and thereby maintaining their status indefinitely.

(b) Does work experience gained during periods of implied status accrue toward the required work experience for CEC? The standard here is that work not be done during unauthorized periods of work, and implied status is not 'unauthorized'.

Very well said!

 

[MrB]

yea it all makes perfect sense but the applicant did get refused despite what you all think it's illogical. infact they are quoting similar reasons that they gave me from call center in my case: you didn't have a work permit period. so u explain that. i personally learnt that their logic is different from our online forum logic. im not saying that's how it should be or that it makes sense or that its fair. it doesnt make sense and its not fair but that's how they do it and thats it...
i searched help with lawers too but despite obvious rules from statutes they still no lawyer couln't answer my simple question: if my wp is extended by law how can they not take it under consideration??? they keep saying it's up to the officer. how can it be up to officer if it says it is extended?!?!?!?! i just had to face the fact that i guess that is not a simple question and that its not fair and it doesnt make sense BUT THEY DO IT THEIR WAY!!!

Be careful how you take what the call centre tells you, they are not experts in the law, neither are immigration officers. The best way to think of immigration officers are like the police, they can enforce the law due to the nature of their jobs. But when you consider the interpretation, application and understanding of the law, Lawyers and Immigration consultants are far superior in this field. That's why the applicant should appeal, so his legal counsel can argue what the law says and that it supersedes the V.O's discretion.

 

[Pippin]

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/cec-application-to-cppottawa-under-implied-status-t119821.0.html

In this posting is a person who WAS approved CEC on implied status. RanjithP evidently managed to succeed. Hope this helps.
LATE ENTRY: Implied Status was NOT involved in this case. All experience earned during work permit. Sorry for the red herring everyone.

 

[anonimo]

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/cec-application-to-cppottawa-under-implied-status-t119821.0.html

I don't think this is related to the subject matter. The person in this link sent his app while he was on implied status but he says nothing on whether he gained experience during it. U can send your app from wherever u want n during any kind of status as long as earned experience with the proper authorization.

 

[clodaoc]

Thank you for all the comments/advice. I will be calling the phone number provided on my rejection email tomorrow and questioning the decision made by the person who dealt with my application. A new concern has just arisen. If they say I need to reapply I don't think I can even do that anymore. The following link says as of yesterday NOC 1221 can't be used anymore.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/backgrounders/2013/2013-11-08.asp

That is the code I used for my work while in Canada. It has literally gone from bad to worse.

Also i'm not in Canada now so I can't use http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/atip/requests-personal.asp to apply for my case notes.

 

[clodaoc]

Honestly I don't know if I can start over with a new code. 1221 fit my job perfectly.

 

[clodaoc]

Hi everyone, i'm trying to get my points together for when I call the Ottowa office tomorrow. I am currently based in the UK so will be calling Canada tomorrow evening my time. My concern is, although you have all provided amazing advice and I am so grateful for the comments....does the new rule that states NOC 1221 is no longer acceptable mean my option is now limited to just appealing the case? I am no longer in a position to reapply?? Or...because of the unfortunate timing (I received my rejection email on the 7th, the rule about NOC 1221 no longer being allowed came out on the 8th) i will be able to reapply?

Yesterday my biggest upset was the fact I might have to put my life on hold another year and half or however long it takes for an application to go through the processing stage. Now my biggest worry is I can't even apply again. I helped so many friends with their applications over the past few months under code 1221 and they will have no problem with their PR being processed. But now i'm the one who can't get back to Canada. I just want to get back to Vancouver and let things go back to normal!

How much is "appealing" this going to cost??

 

[SenoritaBella]

1. When were you told that your implied status had ended?
2. Did you tell your boss and immediately stop working that day?
3. You applied under the foreign worker stream - did your employer get a positive LMO(labor market opinion) from Service Canada for you when you applied for extension of your work permit?
4. It does not sound like they did.
5. From what the call centre told you, it will seem CIC rejected your work permit application sometime between when you sent it and when you called the call centre.
6. If that was the case, you did not have implied status after expiration of your work permit or from date of the rejection letter. The officer states August 12th, which is after expiration of your old permit.
7. If indeed you did not have implied status, you shouldn't have been working anyway and doing so would make you ineligible for CEC.
8. Sadly, you may not have received the letter but the decision was noted in CIC's database.
9. If all the above is true, then it would be hard to show that the visa officer processing your CEC application made an error in applying the law.

Apply for GCMS notes for both your work permit application(that was rejected) and the permanent resident application.

Thanks for the responses so far. To answer all of your questions:

1) I was on implied status for that long due to an error on their side (their meaning the people dealing with work permits etc...) I ended up having to phone the CIC helpdesk number and asked what the situation was as I had applied for an extension to my work permit in August 2012 and by November I still hadn't heard anything. I was then told over the phone a letter had been posted to me a few weeks previous. I never received this letter and was then told it was sent by regular mail which i find quite strange for such an important letter! It was then decided over the phone that my implied status ended there and then and I had to go tell my boss I needed to finish work that day.

2) I was looking to extend my work permit but stay in the say job with the same employer. I had been working for that company for 2 years.

3) Here is the information taken straight from the emailed letter I received:

I have now completed the assessment of your application for a permanent resident visa as a member of the Canadian Experience Class and have determined that you do not meet the requirements for immigration to Canada.

According to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations, applicants in the Canadian Experience Class are assessed on the basis of the pass/fail requirements set out in subsection R87.1(2). The assessment of these criteria determines whether a worker with Canadian experience will be able to become economically established in Canada. The criteria are:

· knowledge of English or French,

· Canadian skilled work experience,

· Canadian educational credentials (for the Post-Graduation Stream only).

Your application was assessed based on the occupation(s) which you identified as part of your skilled work experience in Canada: Project Analyst

I am not satisfied that you meet the Canadian work experience requirement because you have not obtained sufficient full-time equivalent Canadian work experience within the 36 months preceding the date the application was made.

Any periods of self-employment or unauthorized work will not be included in calculating the period of work experience.

The period of work from 2012/08/12 to2012/11/13 when you were employed at (taken out for privacy) could not be included in the calculations of eligible work experience as you did not hold a valid work permit during that time. I note that your work permit expired on 2012/08/11.

The period of eligible Canadian work experience was calculated to be approximately 3337 hours, 563 hours short of the 3900 hours required by the Temporary Foreign Worker stream of the program. I note that you have not indicated a Canadian educational credential, and therefore cannot be considered under the Post-graduation stream of the program.

Subsection 11(1) of the Act states that a foreign national must, before entering Canada, apply to an officer for a visa or for any other document required by the Regulations. The visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the officer is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. Subsection 2(1) specifies that unless otherwise indicated, references in the Act to “this Act” include regulations made under it.

Following an examination of your application, I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of the Act and Regulations for the reasons explained above. I am therefore refusing your application.

Thank you for the interest you have shown in Canada.