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Question for experts- finger prints

hany_sams

Star Member
Mar 20, 2010
68
2
Hi expert,
I wonder why Fingerprint processing time may vary between individuals, so my question is that do they do security screening only for canada or for all the countries you lived in in the past four years( new rule should be 6 years)? If they do, is it only for the people asked to provide fingerprints or everybody?. I'm trying to understand the pattern as people's timeline for fingerprint processing is completely different specially if fingerprint is requested after test.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,289
3,052
hany_sams said:
Hi expert,
I wonder why Fingerprint processing time may vary between individuals, so my question is that do they do security screening only for canada or for all the countries you lived in in the past four years( new rule should be 6 years)? If they do, is it only for the people asked to provide fingerprints or everybody?. I'm trying to understand the pattern as people's timeline for fingerprint processing is completely different specially if fingerprint is requested after test.
I am NO expert.

But I will offer the following observations:

The reasons for requesting fingerprints vary. Verification of identity is one common reason, and why this is an issue itself can vary. It may be merely a matter of another Immigration, Refugees, and Citizenship (IRCC) client having the same, or very similar name, and date of birth, and IRCC needs to verify the particular client/PR. Sometimes there are other factors or circumstances requiring verification of the individual's identity.

Fingerprints for purposes of conducting security checks are also common. Here too, however, identity may be issue, thus the reason can again be simply a matter of distinguishing one particular individual from another. Or it can be there is a name hit in a wide range of databases which are more extensive than the relatively simple name-based criminal record database which reflects arrests, charges, and dispositions (convictions). Thus, for example, one among many, a name hit in a database containing suspects or even merely persons of interest to law enforcement, could lead to a fingerprint request so that RCMP (or in a context more focused on national security than law enforcement, CSIS) can run its programs on the fingerprints to see if there is a positive match, and this is not limited by name criteria.

My sense is that the more simple the reason for the request, such as to just clarify one individual distinct from another, the less delay there is caused by the fingerprint request itself.

Otherwise, again my sense, generally those individuals for whom IRCC identifies a reason to request their fingerprints are more likely to have some complicating factor in their case, and the length of processing time will vary more due to those complicating factors than due to the processing of the fingerprint results.

What I mean by the latter is that those applicants issued a fingerprint request also tend to be at higher risk for delays anyway. Thus, it is not necessarily the processing of the fingerprints which causes the delay. And what those factors are, causing the delay, will have the bigger impact on how long the delay is.

My guess is that if IRCC requests fingerprints for a question internally processed within IRCC, that probably tends to cause the least amount of delay. If the request for fingerprints derives from a referral to RCMP, that probably entails more delay than an internal IRCC one, but probably significantly less than the notoriously slow CSIS. But again, within each of these, other factors including the reason for the request can vary with varying effects on the timeline.



Prohibitions and six years versus four years:

Sorting out the impact of a criminal record and eligibility for citizenship can be a bit complicated.

The reason some things reach back six years is that time spent incarcerated, or on parole or probation, does not count toward physical presence time. The relevant time period for assessing physical presence is six years. So IRCC looks for history going back six years, and of course the referral to the RCMP thus requests information going back that far. This relates mostly to section 21 in the Citizenship Act which prescribes periods which cannot count toward physical presence.

There is also the specific prohibtion for having been convicted of an indictable offence, which now (per Bill C-24) extends to equivalent convictions in foreign jurisdictions, and which now (again per Bill C-24) goes back four years. This prohibition is prescribed in section 22(2) in the Citizenship Act.


Nature and scope of criminal and security checks:

Mostly this is confidential information not disclosed to the public. We know that IRCC refers applicants to both the RCMP and CSIS for background checks. The nature and scope of those is not public information. The fingerprint request can, as I understand things, derive from either of these. As I noted above, my sense is that which agency wants the fingerprints can influence the effect on processing time, CSIS based requests tending to take the longest.


Foreign jurisdictions:

So far, it appears that IRCC seeks and relies on official police checks or clearances from other jurisdictions, rather than pursuing independent research or investigation, when it appears that the applicant has been in a foreign jurisdiction a total of six months or more within the preceding four years. The applicant is required to submit the police certificates or clearances, much like those applying for PR must submit.

This is distinguishable from potential security checks involving inquiries or investigations abroad. This is more likely based on some security related information the government has regarding the PR and which IRCC, the RCMP, or CSIS deems warranting further examination and consideration. Again, what they do in this regard is not disclosed to the public and is indeed carefully guarded information. If CSIS gets involved in this regard, the length of delay can be very long. In the past some of these cases have lingered in the system for many years. These sorts of cases are, perhaps, the most common citizenship application related mandamus cases. Here too, the delay is not so much about the fingerprint request, but about the issue which IRCC, the RCMP, or CSIS has deemed warranting further examination and consideration.
 

hany_sams

Star Member
Mar 20, 2010
68
2
Re: finger prints after test: what additional checks are required?

Another question folks,
I understand that FOSS, CSIS and RCMP checks are initiated by the Nova Scotia Office and then file is transferred to local office. So basically, those entities should be initiating all the required bacgorund, security and criminality checks early on in the process and once all clearances are done, local office sends test invitation. My question is, if full clearance is a prerequisite for test, why local office asks sometimes for fingerprint after test and what kind of additional verification will still be required after fingerprint submittion? And by whom?
I'm Vancouver office by the way and here is my timeline
Application: April,2015
Test: July 2015
FP: August/September 2015
Ecase: in process
DM and oath: waiting

I have never left canada since landing and have Middle East origin
 

Canadiandesi2006

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Mar 6, 2014
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Re: finger prints after test: what additional checks are required?

hany_sams said:
Another question folks,
I understand that FOSS, CSIS and RCMP checks are initiated by the Nova Scotia Office and then file is transferred to local office. So basically, those entities should be initiating all the required bacgorund, security and criminality checks early on in the process and once all clearances are done, local office sends test invitation. My question is, if full clearance is a prerequisite for test, why local office asks sometimes for fingerprint after test and what kind of additional verification will still be required after fingerprint submittion? And by whom?
I'm Vancouver office by the way and here is my timeline
Application: April,2015
Test: July 2015
FP: August/September 2015
Ecase: in process
DM and oath: waiting

I have never left canada since landing and have Middle East origin
Considering you got security clearance completed, FP submitted now its matter of weeks. Knowing CIC Vancouver is doing great job, fast processing you can expect good news in coming weeks. Wish you all the best. Ahlan wa Sahlan ;D
 

hany_sams

Star Member
Mar 20, 2010
68
2
Thanks a lot Canadiandesi2006... Ahlan wasahlan
But I already submitted fingerprint end of August ( almost 5 months now) and no news. Test is done in July though), I don't know what kind of additional verification is being done now? Not sure if I'm on the back burner or this is normal. I have almost read most of the cases similar in nature in this forum, and from their timelines I inferred that my case is really delayed not sure why, I was hoping to find an answe here :)
 

turboracer

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Jul 20, 2011
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hany_sams said:
Hi expert,
I wonder why Fingerprint processing time may vary between individuals, so my question is that do they do security screening only for canada or for all the countries you lived in in the past four years( new rule should be 6 years)? If they do, is it only for the people asked to provide fingerprints or everybody?. I'm trying to understand the pattern as people's timeline for fingerprint processing is completely different specially if fingerprint is requested after test.
they do lots of security checks may b ur fingerprint matched with some one for safe side they did it
 

Canadiandesi2006

Champion Member
Mar 6, 2014
1,126
41
Visa Office......
Scarborough, Toronto
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Oct 2015 (Re-applied)
hany_sams said:
Thanks a lot Canadiandesi2006... Ahlan wasahlan
But I already submitted fingerprint end of August ( almost 5 months now) and no news. Test is done in July though), I don't know what kind of additional verification is being done now? Not sure if I'm on the back burner or this is normal. I have almost read most of the cases similar in nature in this forum, and from their timelines I inferred that my case is really delayed not sure why, I was hoping to find an answe here :)
Have you requested your ATIP report lately, it give good indication what is happening. Accordingly you can decide your next course of action.

After you satisfy the eligibility criteria the other thing could be cross border trips to USA. You may as well consider getting the travel history from CBSA, Canada and US homeland security and keep it ready.

If due to any reason the CIC put put as non-routine application which they have been doing to gain 36 + months processing time, consider withdrawing and re-applying under the new rules (After carefully considering all factors, eligibility, travel history etc).

The biggest issue with CIC is they does not communicate anything.....and keep candidates guessing for years, that's terrible.
 

hany_sams

Star Member
Mar 20, 2010
68
2
If security and criminality checks are required to complete before the test, why local office requests fingerprints sometimes after test? I understand the applicant should only be invited to test when clearances are complete..any thoughts guys?
 

Canadiandesi2006

Champion Member
Mar 6, 2014
1,126
41
Visa Office......
Scarborough, Toronto
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Oct 2015 (Re-applied)
hany_sams said:
If security and criminality checks are required to complete before the test, why local office requests fingerprints sometimes after test? I understand the applicant should only be invited to test when clearances are complete..any thoughts guys?
That's a million dollar question, what logic CIC follows.

Last few years been quite terrible, after taking years to process the applications, they sent RQ's and after receiving responses. They invited candidates for Citizenship test. Then after a year on back burner called processing, they were assigned to Citizenship Judges.

CJ admits they dont have time to review so many documents. Further they says, even if they approve, the CIC will contest their decision.

Bottom line - what is the logic, if CIC determined to contest CJ decisions, why they had assigns cases to CJ in the first place, they should reject it. That makes CJ roles redundant, let candidates go straight to Federal Courts instead of wasting their and CIC time and resources for so long.