Question about citizenship from grandfather born in Toronto (1916)

[curiouscpt]

Hi all,

I have some questions about Canadian citizenship by descent.

After some research, I am still not clear about my situation so thought I would ask here.

My grandfather was born in Toronto in 1916 to British immigrant parents.
The family left for South Africa some years later, while he was still a young boy.
The birth was registered in Ontario.

My grandfather (now deceased) had South African citizenship but never claimed Canadian citizenship.

My father was born in South Africa in 1950. He has South African citizenship but never claimed Canadian citizenship.

I was born in South Africa in 1980 and have South African citizenship.

My questions:
1. Is my father able to claim Canadian citizenship?
2. Am I able to claim Canadian citizenship? (wether my father does, or not)

Any advice much appreciated.
Thank you!

 

[scylla]

1. Your father can most likely claim citizenship.
2. You most likely cannot since your father's birth wasn't registered with Canada before you were born.

 

[curiouscpt]

Thanks for your speedy reply.

"Most likely" sounds as if there is still some possibility of a positive result for Question 2?

Would you recommend the best course of action is for me to apply and see what happens?

Thank you.
Regards

 

[scylla]

Before you can try anything your father has to apply for and obtain proof of citizenship. There is nothing you can do until he does that.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/proof.asp

I actually don't think there is any possibility for you. However because I'm not 100% on all of the rules, I used "most likely".

 

[screech339]

As mentioned above, I think the only way you can claim citizenship is if your father claimed citizenship first. Once that is done, only then can you claim canadian citizenship by descent through your father. You cannot claim citizenship by jumping a generation over your father.

If you want Canadian citizenship, you need to get on the ball and get your father to apply for Canadian citizenship.

 

[alphazip]

Hi all,

I have some questions about Canadian citizenship by descent.

After some research, I am still not clear about my situation so thought I would ask here.

My grandfather was born in Toronto in 1916 to British immigrant parents.
The family left for South Africa some years later, while he was still a young boy.
The birth was registered in Ontario.

My grandfather (now deceased) had South African citizenship but never claimed Canadian citizenship.

My father was born in South Africa in 1950. He has South African citizenship but never claimed Canadian citizenship.

I was born in South Africa in 1980 and have South African citizenship.

My questions:
1. Is my father able to claim Canadian citizenship?
2. Am I able to claim Canadian citizenship? (wether my father does, or not)

Any advice much appreciated.
Thank you!

There are a number of factors to consider. First, for your grandfather to have become a Canadian citizen in 1947, despite having departed for South Africa, he could not have become a "foreign" citizen. Foreign was defined as non-British, so since South Africa was part of the British Empire at the time, your grandfather would still have been a British subject in 1947. Therefore, since your grandfather was a Canadian, your father would have inherited Canadian citizenship through him, but only if his birth was registered with Canadian authorities within two years. I assume it was not. As of 1977, the Citizenship Act allowed adults whose births were not registered to make a "delayed registration of birth abroad", which your father could have done until that right was abolished in 2004. Assuming he did not register his birth with Canada (which would have made him a citizen retroactive to his birth), he would not have been a Canadian citizen when you were born in 1980.

As of 2009, a new law returned Canadian citizenship to most persons who had lost it (by, for example, taking a foreign citizenship between 1947 & 1977) AND gave it to their children in the first generation. (Another refinement taking effect this year will give citizenship to Canadian-born persons who lost British-subject status before 1947, and to their children in the 1st generation.) Due to these new laws, your father is a Canadian citizen now, but because you are 2 generations removed from a Canadian-born person, you are not a Canadian citizen. If your father had known that he could have registered his birth before 2004, you could have been...but not now.
Whether or not your father applies for a citizenship certificate (he is already a Canadian citizen, but he needs proof to, for example, apply for a passport) will not affect your right to Canadian citizenship, because (as scylla noted above) he was not a Canadian citizen when you were born.

 

[screech339]

There are a number of factors to consider. First, for your grandfather to have become a Canadian citizen in 1947, despite having departed for South Africa, he could not have become a "foreign" citizen. Foreign was defined as non-British, so since South Africa was part of the British Empire at the time, your grandfather would still have been a British subject in 1947. Therefore, since your grandfather was a Canadian, your father would have inherited Canadian citizenship through him, but only if his birth was registered with Canadian authorities within two years. I assume it was not. As of 1977, the Citizenship Act allowed adults whose births were not registered to make a "delayed registration of birth abroad", which your father could have done until that right was abolished in 2004. Assuming he did not register his birth with Canada (which would have made him a citizen retroactive to his birth), he would not have been a Canadian citizen when you were born in 1980.

As of 2009, a new law returned Canadian citizenship to most persons who had lost it (by, for example, taking foreign a citizenship after 1947) AND gave it to their children in the first generation. (Another refinement taking effect this year will give citizenship to Canadian-born persons who lost British-subject status before 1947, and to their children in the 1st generation.) Due to these new laws, your father is a Canadian citizen now, but because you are 2 generations removed from a Canadian-born person, you are not a Canadian citizen. If your father had known that he could have registered his birth before 2004, you could have been...but not now.

Whether or not your father applies for a citizenship certificate (he is already a Canadian citizen, but he needs proof to, say, apply for a passport) will not affect your right to Canadian citizenship, because (as scylla noted above) he was not a Canadian citizen when you were born.

Technically the OP can get citizenship by descent through his father even though his father is also citizenship by descent as well. Since the OP was born before 2009, the new 1st/ 2nd generation limitation won't apply to him in acquiring citizenship. Once the OP get citizenship, his children will also get citizenship through him if they were born before April 2009.

This is example why the citizenship laws was changed. Because his grandfather was born in Canada, 3 generations (father, OP and OP's children) after the grandfather can get citizenship by descent without stepping foot in Canada.

 

[alphazip]

Technically the OP can get citizenship by descent through his father even though his father is also citizenship by descent as well. Since the OP was born before 2009, the new 1st/ 2nd generation limitation won't apply to him in acquiring citizenship. Once the OP get citizenship, his children will also get citizenship through him if they were born before April 2009

As a citizen by descent myself, I can tell you that your statement is incorrect. The right to Canadian citizenship by descent was capped at the 1st generation born abroad in 2009. The OP is the second generation born abroad. The only exception for a person in this category is if he was already a citizen on April 17, 2009. For him to have already been a citizen, he would have had to have been born to a person who was a Canadian citizen when the OP was born in 1980. The Citizenship Act in effect when the father was born in 1950 required that his birth be registered with Canadian authorities within two years. Are you saying that requirement can be ignored?

 

[screech339]

As a citizen by descent myself I can tell you that your statement is incorrect. The right to Canadian citizenship by descent was capped at the 1st generation born abroad in 2009. The OP is the second generation born abroad. The only exception for a person in this category is if he was already a citizen on April 17, 2009. For him to have already been a citizen, he would have had to have been born to a person who was a Canadian citizen when the OP was born in 1980. The Citizenship Act in effect in when the father was born in 1950 required that his birth be registered with Canadian authorities within two years. Are you saying that requirement can be ignored?

I wasn't aware of this small differences. Thanks for the clarification. I thought (wrong of course) that those born before April 2009 would not have to follow the new citizenship rule, thus citizenship by descent can go for generation until those born after April 2009.

 

[alphazip]

In my longer answer to the OP, I mentioned a "delayed registration of birth abroad", which was available until 2004. Because my Canadian-born father did not register my birth, I registered it myself as an adult, and thereby became a Canadian citizen retroactive to my birth. Therefore, if I had children, they would also have been Canadian citizens. Even if I hadn't registered my birth, I still would have become a citizen in 2009, but then my children would NOT have become Canadian citizens, because of the 1st generation limit.

The subject is quite complicated, but different examples of who does/does not get citizenship under the 2009 changes can be found here: http://www.nriinternet.com/NRIimmigration/CANADA/News_Immigration/2009/14_April-17_Law.htm

 

[curiouscpt]

Thank you for all of your replies.

Another thought I had:

Should my father be successful in his claim for Canadian citizenship, would that bring any potential benefit regarding gaining residence on this basis in Canada myself?

i.e. Since I am not able to apply directly for citizenship by descent, is there any advantage to having a Canadian citizen parent that may, for example, permit me as the child to enter Canada on that basis with a view to gaining permanent residence and/or citizenship after the prescribed period of residence?

Thank you!

 

[scylla]

Should my father be successful in his claim for Canadian citizenship, would that bring any potential benefit regarding gaining residence on this basis in Canada myself?

i.e. Since I am not able to apply directly for citizenship by descent, is there any advantage to having a Canadian citizen parent that may, for example, permit me as the child to enter Canada on that basis with a view to gaining permanent residence and/or citizenship after the prescribed period of residence?

Nope - zero benefits. You'll have to qualify and apply for PR and citizenship just like anyone else.

FYI - you must become a PR first before you can become a citizen. You cannot become a PR through residency - you must meet the criteria of one of the programs in the following link, apply and be accepted: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/apply.asp