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PRTD requested additional documents

Lovelycomplex

Star Member
Oct 21, 2014
182
17
Visa Office......
Mexico
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Nov 7th 2014
Doc's Request.
Jan 26th 2015-Marriage Certificate request
AOR Received.
Feb 11Th 2015 AOR2 AG 5th 2015-pgr
File Transfer...
SA- Feb 12Th 2015
Med's Done....
Medicals received on Ecas
LANDED..........
25/11/2015
Hello, I'm applying for PR card renewal since December while i was in canada but then had to travel abroad and i applied in january for PRTD to be able to be back in canada since PR just expired a few weeks ago.

The PRTD office just send me an email asking me for the following documents below, I already send today because I don't want to delay the process.


This refers to your application for a Permanent Resident Travel Document. The documents you have provided are insufficient to assess you file. In order for us to continue the processing of your application, we require the following documents:

- A copy of each page of each passport used between 2016 and 2021 where the page number and stamps (if present) are clearly visible. Send empty pages as well.

- Proof to support your declared time in Canada between 2016 and 2019 such as but not limited

to: pay slips, flights tickets, bank statement showing in-Canada transactions, etc. You need to provide documents that covers the entire declared time.

Please note:


Please provide documents that you have not yet submitted and that cover the entire period.
Please submit your written submission along with supporting documentation (translated into English or French) by

responding directly to this email within thirty (30) days of the date of this letter. Failure to do so may result in the refusal of your application.




------


The question I've always lived with at relatives, and ex partner place so never had a rental or utilities under my name, except for phone bill, my car that i bought in 2017 and my insurance.
So I sent them the bank statements of my credit card which shows in Canada purchases like LCBO, petro, even canada wonderland lol.
I send them almost all months since 2016. Is this enough proof? I'm also self-employed so no pay stubs.
I have accumulated more than 1000 days (I also applied for citizenship at the same time as PR)
Could they reject my application?
I comply the days for residency obligations but i'm scared to not have enough proof of that.

also do i need to translate the passport stamps?
i have to so many countries since i travel a lot.
what happens if PRTD is refused but then PR is approved?

thank you
 
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
5,389
2,381
The question I've always lived with at relatives, and ex partner place so never had a rental or utilities under my name, except for phone bill, my car that i bought in 2017 and my insurance.
So I sent them the bank statements of my credit card which shows in Canada purchases like LCBO, petro, even canada wonderland lol.
I send them almost all months since 2016. Is this enough proof? I'm also self-employed so no pay stubs.
I have accumulated more than 1000 days (I also applied for citizenship at the same time as PR)
Could they reject my application?
I comply the days for residency obligations but i'm scared to not have enough proof of that.

also do i need to translate the passport stamps?
i have to so many countries since i travel a lot.
what happens if PRTD is refused but then PR is approved?
It is impossible to assess how much at risk your status is, other than to recognize that yes, of course, the visa office *can* deny the application for a PR TD. Remember, a PR outside Canada not in possession of a valid PR card is PRESUMED to not have valid PR status. The burden is on the PR to prove the facts demonstrating compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.

There's train load of "should have done this, done that, and that" in what you describe, and maybe "one or two what were you thinking questions" as well (going abroad in circumstances where you would need to get a PR TD to return to Canada, when you have a rather difficult to document address and employment in Canada history, is probably the big one, especially since you had already made a PR card application and were aware of what IRCC asks for when RO compliance needs to be established), but that is of course all past tense. That part is a done deal. Now you are here. Or, rather, figuratively here at this perhaps difficult spot but not here geographically.

That is, you are located abroad, applying for a PR TD, and IRCC is not persuaded you have complied with the RO, and thus the visa office is giving you an opportunity to submit enough evidence to persuade them that you have complied with the RO.

Make no mistake about what the request for additional evidence is. Your application failed to meet the burden of proof. You are literally being given another opportunity to make up for that, an opportunity to submit sufficient evidence to prove you complied with the RO. This is YOUR chance to make the case you meet the requirements for keeping PR status.

Again, it is impossible to judge how serious this is. It may have been a close call and all they need is a little more evidence to be persuaded, and the PR TD will soon be issued. Maybe. Maybe there is no reason to worry much if at all. Maybe.

Or, it is possible they have real concerns about the truthfulness of your reported time in Canada, and will need direct documentary evidence to be persuaded you have met the burden of proof.

In any event, probably a good idea to start looking at what they ask for more objectively.

Their instructions clearly state to submit documents "translated into English or French," AND YET you ask, "do i need to translate the passport stamps?" (And to be clear, IRCC almost ALWAYS requests that any information in documents which is not in one of the official languages be accompanied by a proper translation into English or French.)

I suspect some forum participants grow tired of me repeating the obvious, but it seems to need repeating: "if in doubt, follow the instructions; otherwise, yep, follow the instructions."

Now of course IRCC does NOT engage in gotcha-games. So a failure to present or submit a proper translation does not necessarily cause a problem. If IRCC can discern enough to reasonably figure things out, usually it's not a problem. And thus there are many anecdotal accounts from PRs who report they did not submit a translation for passport stamps and they did not have a problem (been there, did that, in a citizenship application; no problem). Many or most of these accounts are probably true. But this is not because IRCC does not require passport stamps be translated; it is because IRCC was satisfied DESPITE the PR's failure to follow the instructions and include the translations. Again, IRCC does NOT engage in gotcha-games.

That is: If the evidence sufficiently shows the PR complied with the RO, was in Canada for at least 730 days within the previous five years, IRCC will issue the PR TD. It will not deny the application for a technicality like failing to provide passport stamp translations.

But of course failing to follow the instructions does not make a good impression, and of course the PR's credibility is almost as important as the requirements themselves. Nonetheless, how it goes will likely depend mostly on how well IRCC can go through the passport pages and verify that the PR's accounting of travel history is consistent. With due consideration given to other information and evidence, including how well the PR has documented actually being in Canada when the PR reported being in Canada.

So far I have addressed just the passport stamps. The other requests might be just as important, perhaps more important. For example, business records showing your business activities in Canada would probably help considerably, along with copies of your Notices of Assessment from CRA. Assuming those records actually do establish your activity in Canada over the periods of time you report being self-employed in Canada. There might not be enough time to obtain and submit letters from people verifying that you resided in their households during this and that specific period of time, but at the least identifying those individuals and their contact information could be part of your explanation about the lack of rental documentation.

Again, I cannot say whether you really need to up-your-game in how you respond to this, let alone by how much.

So I will address the somewhat worst-case scenario:

As I noted, YES, the visa office can deny the PR TD application. If that happens, you have a right of appeal. You will have sixty days to make that appeal. Since you have been IN Canada within the previous 12 months, you should also be able to obtain a special PR TD allowing you to return to Canada pending the appeal.

The appeal is what is called "de novo," meaning the judge (actually it is the IAD, a quasi-judicial or administrative-judge-like decision-maker) will examine the evidence a new. Meaning you can submit additional evidence in the appeal and it will be considered along with what you already submitted. Which will give you a chance to fill in gaps . . . like obtain letters from family and friends with whom you lived, in which they attest to the specific dates you resided with them. And so on.


what happens if PRTD is refused but then PR is approved?

Some here describe the denial of the PR TD application as beginning the process to terminate your PR status. That is not accurate. It is a formal adjudication of your PR status and a decision denying a PR TD is a formal decision terminating PR status. But as I noted, you have a right of appeal. You keep PR status pending the appeal BUT you must win the appeal to keep PR status. (To win means either a decision from the IAD setting aside the visa office decision, or sometimes the Minister will concede and set aside the PR TD denial without it being heard by the IAD.)

If the visa office denies the PR TD application, it is NOT likely, indeed highly unlikely, that IRCC will approve the PR card application, let alone actually issue a new card and deliver it. After all, the visa office decision will be prominently visible in your GCMS records.

There may be some chance that the PR card application gets approved BEFORE the visa office makes the formal decision. Does NOT change anything. In particular, if somehow the PR card gets approved, that does not have any impact on the validity of a decision denying a PR TD. Whether it is before or after the PR card application is approved. The decision denying the PR TD is still a formal decision terminating PR status. You will still need to proceed with the appeal, and prevail in the appeal, in order to keep PR status.

Remember, after all, a valid PR card has NO relevance in calculating RO compliance.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
43,299
10,262
Hello, I'm applying for PR card renewal since December while i was in canada but then had to travel abroad and i applied in january for PRTD to be able to be back in canada since PR just expired a few weeks ago.

The PRTD office just send me an email asking me for the following documents below, I already send today because I don't want to delay the process.


This refers to your application for a Permanent Resident Travel Document. The documents you have provided are insufficient to assess you file. In order for us to continue the processing of your application, we require the following documents:

- A copy of each page of each passport used between 2016 and 2021 where the page number and stamps (if present) are clearly visible. Send empty pages as well.

- Proof to support your declared time in Canada between 2016 and 2019 such as but not limited

to: pay slips, flights tickets, bank statement showing in-Canada transactions, etc. You need to provide documents that covers the entire declared time.

Please note:


Please provide documents that you have not yet submitted and that cover the entire period.
Please submit your written submission along with supporting documentation (translated into English or French) by

responding directly to this email within thirty (30) days of the date of this letter. Failure to do so may result in the refusal of your application.




------


The question I've always lived with at relatives, and ex partner place so never had a rental or utilities under my name, except for phone bill, my car that i bought in 2017 and my insurance.
So I sent them the bank statements of my credit card which shows in Canada purchases like LCBO, petro, even canada wonderland lol.
I send them almost all months since 2016. Is this enough proof? I'm also self-employed so no pay stubs.
I have accumulated more than 1000 days (I also applied for citizenship at the same time as PR)
Could they reject my application?
I comply the days for residency obligations but i'm scared to not have enough proof of that.

also do i need to translate the passport stamps?
i have to so many countries since i travel a lot.
what happens if PRTD is refused but then PR is approved?

thank you
If you have done a lot of travelling I would also create a chronological list of when you were in Canada and when you were out of the country.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
10,257
5,202
- Proof to support your declared time in Canada between 2016 and 2019 such as but not limited
to: pay slips, flights tickets, bank statement showing in-Canada transactions, etc. You need to provide documents that covers the entire declared time.

Please note:

Please provide documents that you have not yet submitted and that cover the entire period.
...
also do i need to translate the passport stamps?
i have to so many countries since i travel a lot.
Apart from what others have suggested above, I draw attention to the bolded part above - that they have asked for a particular date range gives a very strong indication of what you need to focus on.

This could be because either they have incomplete information on entries and exits as they've been working on implementing a better system (although I think entries through airports have been complete for years). Or it could be because there's something more complex about your travel history and number of days in Canada during that period.

If you didn't prepare before, a table of your travels would certainly help.

And given the importance here I would definitely get the passport stamps translated. (And if dates on any of those stamps are unclear, try to link/support with eg flight details). As others have noted, it's often not necessary and/or the IRCC agents can figure them out, but you do not want any misunderstanding about these.

Note that since many countries don't consistently stamp these days, it may not be perfect support for your case, but nonetheless should at least provide evidence to collate/check against other information you provide.
 

Lovelycomplex

Star Member
Oct 21, 2014
182
17
Visa Office......
Mexico
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Nov 7th 2014
Doc's Request.
Jan 26th 2015-Marriage Certificate request
AOR Received.
Feb 11Th 2015 AOR2 AG 5th 2015-pgr
File Transfer...
SA- Feb 12Th 2015
Med's Done....
Medicals received on Ecas
LANDED..........
25/11/2015
I got PRTD approved after sending my stamps and bank statements. yay!