PRTD- "R-1" with Two year visa

[Harry15]

Hello Members

One of my relatives son had applied for PRTD on H&C grounds (minor being removed from Canada).He is 18 years old. He got his passport with TWO year visa (multiple entry) and "R-1" counterfoil coding.

What does it mean?
Will he be eligible to apply new PR card immediately after landing in Canada? OR
Will it be ok to use this visa for two years for travel purpose and when this visa gets expired after two years then apply for PR card (after complying with RO)?

I searched this forum and found that mostly applicant got six month visa and one of them even successfully renewed his PR card after landing in Canada.
Please advise.

 

[Rob_TO]

There have been many cases on this forum of H&C PR TDs being issued with R-1 coding instead of RC-1 that should be done for H&C. Nobody really understands why this happens.

He has a valid H&C claim, so I would just apply to renew PR card immediately. Considering the severe inconvenience living in Canada without a PR card can cause, It doesn't make sense that IRCC would issue a PR TD, but then refuse a PR card renewal shortly afterwards.

Does he already have a SIN? Note that it's not possible to apply for a new SIN without a valid PR card. Also attending college/university as a domestic student without a PR card can also be very difficult.

 

[Harry15]

Thanks Rob_TO.

Yes you are right but PR Card is also mainly for travel purpose and when they know that they will be issuing it to the applicant then why did they issue a visa with so long period valid for multiple entries?!!
Generally they issue visa in H&C cases for SIX month period with RC-1 counterfoil coding and SINGLE entry. Don't you think that visa issued to this guy is more beneficial. I mean he can travel for two years without going through the hassles of renewing PR card. Also his status is mentioned as PERMANENT RESIDENT on the visa, I don't think he will be facing any problem in attending college as domestic student. He has SIN card.
What do you think?

 

[Rob_TO]

Thanks Rob_TO.

Yes you are right but PR Card is also mainly for travel purpose and when they know that they will be issuing it to the applicant then why did they issue a visa with so long period valid for multiple entries?!!
Generally they issue visa in H&C cases for SIX month period with RC-1 counterfoil coding and SINGLE entry. Don't you think that visa issued to this guy is more beneficial. I mean he can travel for two years without going through the hassles of renewing PR card. Also his status is mentioned as PERMANENT RESIDENT on the visa, I don't think he will be facing any problem in attending college as domestic student. He has SIN card.
What do you think?

Why he was issued the R-1 and 2-year PR TD, are questions that only the visa officer dealing with his case could answer, all anyone here can do is guess.

PR card is more than a travel document, many organizations in Canada use it to confirm someone's current PR status. Perhaps he will be fine without it for 2 years, or perhaps he will run into trouble with some place that demands nothing other than a valid PR card to prove his status. I've heard that some schools can be picky about this, he really needs to ask this question specifically to any schools he wants to attend.

 

[spyfy]

Thanks Rob_TO.

Yes you are right but PR Card is also mainly for travel purpose and when they know that they will be issuing it to the applicant then why did they issue a visa with so long period valid for multiple entries?!!
Generally they issue visa in H&C cases for SIX month period with RC-1 counterfoil coding and SINGLE entry. Don't you think that visa issued to this guy is more beneficial. I mean he can travel for two years without going through the hassles of renewing PR card. Also his status is mentioned as PERMANENT RESIDENT on the visa, I don't think he will be facing any problem in attending college as domestic student. He has SIN card.
What do you think?

I can list the University of Toronto as an example: When you enroll you MUST produce either a PR card or the original CoPR. I am uncertain if a very old CoPR can be used. Here is the source:

http://tcard.utoronto.ca/citizenship-documentation/

The SIN card is only relevant for employment. When you enrol for University, no one cares about your SIN (or if you have one) unless in later years you might work as a Teaching Assistant.

 

[Harry15]

Thx.

So while applying for PR card should he specifically mention that the new card is required for taking admission in college/university??. Otherwise CIC may refuse the application.
Also, if he goes out of Canada, will he be questioned for RO compliance at PoE when coming back?? if yes then what is the use of giving two year visa and that too with multiple entries??

 

[Rob_TO]

Thx.

So while applying for PR card should he specifically mention that the new card is required for taking admission in college/university??. Otherwise CIC may refuse the application.
Also, if he goes out of Canada, will he be questioned for RO compliance at PoE when coming back?? if yes then what is the use of giving two year visa and that too with multiple entries??

They have already approved the PR TD, so it makes no sense that they would issue this but then refuse a PR card renewal done shortly after.

In the PR card renewal app the main point to stress is the recent issuance of the PR TD, done after submitting H&C reasons for not meeting the RO. I would present all the same proofs submitted with the PR TD. And yes can also indicate the enrollment in college/university. The H&C condition still applies in his case, so the PR card renewal should be approved. The visa officer processing the PR TD may have even noted the H&C reason on his file, though for whatever reason didn't include it on the PR TD he got.

As for exiting/re-entering Canada, a positive H&C consideration overcomes previous violation of the RO, so he should be free to travel if he wishes. I would just wait until he got the new PR card to be safe. Since there is no indication of the positive H&C claim on his 2-year PR TD, a CBSA officer could do a quick residency exam at any given time, see he doesn't meet the RO, and decide to report him which would cause lots of problems. A valid PR card though proves that a valid H&C case was accepted, else they would never have given the renewal.

 

[Harry15]

Excerpt from OP 10- PERMANENT RESIDENCY STATUS DETERMINATION

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf

18.3 Step 3. If application is approved, issue the travel document

In most cases, the travel document is to be issued for a single entry with a validity of six months. Occasionally, there may be cases where a permanent resident of Canada is unable to apply for a permanent resident card due to their long-term residency abroad. In these rare cases, where a permanent resident is unable to apply for the card from within Canada because of the shortness of their occasional stays in Canada, a multiple-entry travel document may be issued for a period of validity not exceeding five years. The category to be printed on the travel document counterfoil is R-1. A separate counterfoil will be printed for each person included in the application that meets the criteria for issuance.

In those cases where an applicant was approved on humanitarian and compassionate grounds, the category to appear on the travel document counterfoil is RC-1.

Requesting other seniors to share their views too.

 

[Rob_TO]

Excerpt from OP 10- PERMANENT RESIDENCY STATUS DETERMINATION

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf

18.3 Step 3. If application is approved, issue the travel document

In most cases, the travel document is to be issued for a single entry with a validity of six months. Occasionally, there may be cases where a permanent resident of Canada is unable to apply for a permanent resident card due to their long-term residency abroad. In these rare cases, where a permanent resident is unable to apply for the card from within Canada because of the shortness of their occasional stays in Canada, a multiple-entry travel document may be issued for a period of validity not exceeding five years. The category to be printed on the travel document counterfoil is R-1. A separate counterfoil will be printed for each person included in the application that meets the criteria for issuance.

In those cases where an applicant was approved on humanitarian and compassionate grounds, the category to appear on the travel document counterfoil is RC-1.

Requesting other seniors to share their views too.

That part is intended for PRs that actually meet the RO, not for those applying under H&C.

Again there is no firm answer here, as only the visa officer knows the logic behind submitting R-1 coding on PRTD for a H&C case, or if it was just a simple mistake. All anyone here can do is guess.

 

[Harry15]

"where a permanent resident is unable to apply for the card from within Canada because of the shortness of their occasional stays in Canada"

PR who is unable to apply for card from within Canada-- is it something related to a situation where visa officer is considering that since PR will not be able to apply for a new PR card (for two years due to non compliance of RO) so give him two year visa instead. If so is the case then PR should not apply for new card immediately after landing in Canada.
What is the exact interpretation of this line?

 

[Rob_TO]

"where a permanent resident is unable to apply for the card from within Canada because of the shortness of their occasional stays in Canada"

PR who is unable to apply for card from within Canada-- is it something related to a situation where visa officer is considering that since PR will not be able to apply for a new PR card (for two years due to non compliance of RO) so give him two year visa instead. If so is the case then PR should not apply for new card immediately after landing in Canada.
What is the exact interpretation of this line?

No, that is not the right interpretation. They are not talking about not apply for PR due to not meeting RO.
As I said this is specifically for people who meet the RO. If someone meets the RO but for the next few years will be traveling in and out of Canada, they may not be able to apply for a PR card since they may not have a permanent address in Canada to send the PR card to. So for these people that meet the RO but are still traveling, they are given the R-1 PR TD for multiple years.

The line even states, "In those cases where an applicant was approved on humanitarian and compassionate grounds, the category to appear on the travel document counterfoil is RC-1."

There are only 3 situations that should happen when applying for PR TD.
1. Meet the RO, get R-1 PR TD
2. Don't meet the RO, but have H&C reason, get RC-1 PR TD
3. Don't meet the RO, no H&C reason, PR TD refused and PR status revoked

Anytime a PR TD is granted, it means one should be eligible to then renew PR card, either by simply meeting the RO or by having a valid H&C reason. I'll say again, it makes ZERO SENSE for IRCC to issue a PR TD, then expect the PR to go through inconvenience of spending 2+ years in Canada without a PR card.

An 18 year old removed from Canada as a minor has one of the most commonly accepted valid H&C reason, so should not hesitate to apply for their PR card renewal.

 

[Harry15]

Thx @Rob_TO
Sorry no offense but your two statements given above confusing me:-

As for exiting/re-entering Canada, a positive H&C consideration overcomes previous violation of the RO, so he should be free to travel if he wishes. I would just wait until he got the new PR card to be safe. Since there is no indication of the positive H&C claim on his 2-year PR TD, a CBSA officer could do a quick residency exam at any given time, see he doesn't meet the RO, and decide to report him which would cause lots of problems. A valid PR card though proves that a valid H&C case was accepted, else they would never have given the renewal.

If someone meets the RO but for the next few years will be traveling in and out of Canada, they may not be able to apply for a PR card since they may not have a permanent address in Canada to send the PR card to. So for these people that meet the RO but are still traveling, they are given the R-1 PR TD for multiple years.

If visa officer already assumed that PR would not be able to stay for longer period/apply card in Canada and gives him two years visa then there should not be any problem at PoE. Why should he apply for PR card except for using it to get admission in college/university as a domestic student.
My only worry is if he applies for a new PR card then will there be any problem or no?

 

[Rob_TO]

If visa officer already assumed that PR would not be able to stay for longer period/apply card in Canada and gives him two years visa then there should not be any problem at PoE. Why should he apply for PR card except for using it to get admission in college/university as a domestic student.
My only worry is if he applies for a new PR card then will there be any problem or no?

A CBSA officer at PoE does not need to abide by any previous ruling of a visa officer in issuing a PR TD, especially at much later dates. A PR TD does not automatically mean there will be no problems with CBSA.

An R-1 PR TD assumes one meets the RO at the time they apply for the PR TD. If that person continues to reside outside of Canada, they may at some point in the future no longer meet the RO. So on some visit to Canada later on, a CBSA officer could find them in violation of RO and report them despite them having a multiple-entry PR TD in hand issued years earlier. A PR TD is not a license to no longer meet the RO going forward, the PR is expected to maintain their RO the entire time. Even people with valid PR cards have been reported once they no longer comply with the RO.

Long term multiple entry PR TDs should be issued mainly to those that have a long way to go before being in violation of the RO, live with a Canadian spouse outside Canada, or qualify for the Canadian employer exemption by working outside Canada. These people will satisfy the RO going forward, but may be unable to apply for a PR card and don't want hassle of continually applying for PR TDs.

If one is issued an R-1 PR TD they should try to return to Canada immediately, and apply for PR Card renewal immediately. Remember the R-1 PR TD is NOT technically done on H&C reasons, so the only way to overcome RO violation is to get a new PR Card issued which would officially validate the H&C claim. The more they attempt to travel in and out of Canada over following years on PR TD while in clear violation of the RO, the more chance there is a CBSA officer may investigate their RO, decide a H&C doesn't apply at that time, and report them.

 

[Harry15]

Thanks Rob_TO for your reply & patience.

"they may at some point in the future no longer meet the RO"

in this case, PRTD visa valid from Aug 1 2017 to Aug 1 2019.

Can you make a guess here about his safe travel period without fearing RO compliance examination by CBSA? or he is always in danger at PoE?
Any specific date?
Can getting a new PR card by Dec 2017 extend that safe travel period?

May be these are not valid questions but still I would like to know your views.
Thanks once again.

 

[Rob_TO]

Thanks Rob_TO for your reply & patience.

"they may at some point in the future no longer meet the RO"

in this case, PRTD visa valid from Aug 1 2017 to Aug 1 2019.

Can you make a guess here about his safe travel period without fearing RO compliance examination by CBSA? or he is always in danger at PoE?
Any specific date?
Can getting a new PR card by Dec 2017 extend that safe travel period?

May be these are not valid questions but still I would like to know your views.
Thanks once again.

My opinion (not fact by any means) is that he doesn't meet the RO, doesn't have a H&C indication on the PRTD, so would be at risk of being reported at anytime upon entering Canada. Technically even on the initial entry with PRTD, CBSA could see he doesn't meet the RO and cause problems. Although I think this is unlikely as in general the quicker he enters Canada since being issued the PRTD, the safer it would be. Plus even if CBSA did notice his RO violation, he still has a perfectly valid H&C reason at his current age. Risk would increase the longer time from the PRTD issue date. Of course there is no specific date as it's entirely at discretion of CBSA on any given trip.

Also his H&C reason (being removed as a minor) is still in effect today, since he is around age 18. This is why applying for PR card immediately is the best course of action, since the H&C reason is still perfectly valid and should be accepted without question. The further in age he gets from 18, the more chance there is a visa officer or CBSA agent could reject the H&C claim.

Again, getting a PR card would validate the H&C claim and make him in compliance with the RO if he intended to travel. I am not sure if the PRTD record has his H&C reason on record, as it's an R-1 PRTC and not RC-1.