PRTD from India for Card Expired in 2021 August.

[Anrojak]

Hi experts, My wife and me are PR from 2009. First renewal of PR Card done in 2014. Second renewal was due in August 2019. But we were short of 231 days of RO because we were repeatedly required to stay in India few months each in 2015, 2017 , in 2018. Whenever we return to Canada we could stay only few months in these years because of my 97 year old father used to get repeatedly critical due to old age sickness and required hospitalization. Our last exit from Canada was on 5 January 2020, before renewal of our PR Cards because we were short of 231days. From 7 January 2020 we were with my father at the hospital, and in April 2020 due to severe pneumonia he left all of us.
Unfortunately after the bereavement of my father, from April 2020 COVID 19 pandemic, frequent lockdown and International travel ban were another unexpected impact on us and could not return to Canada so far. Currently our PR Card is not valid for a return. I seek the help of expert's opinion and suggestion regarding a possibility of our return to Canada. As we do not have a visa for USA we cannot travel from India to USA and cross the boarder from there.

Will the COVID 19 pandemic situation all over the countries and Travel Ban will be reason for granting us PRTD from India. Because of the US Embassy has a huge backlog of pending visa interviews, no chance for a visit visa to USA in the near future.

 

[armoured]

Will the COVID 19 pandemic situation all over the countries and Travel Ban will be reason for granting us PRTD from India.

All reasons are 'reasons' - including covid and the partial, periodic travel restrictions, however they may be termed.

Some will point out that it has been possible (even if difficult and not recommended and/or discouraged by Canadian govt and others) to return to Canada. (Not to mention more expensive and inconvenient, etc).

The only thing we can say is all reasons must be considered by IRCC. That doesn't mean they have to agree the reasons are sufficient, but they will consider.

Honestly, whatever - at this point the only thing you can realistically do is apply for PRTD, and when doing so, make the best case you can as to why circumstances made it difficult/impossible to comply with the residency obligation, and reasons that you should be allowed to return to Canada (ties, work, family, etc., etc).

Opinions here are not what counts - only what IRCC decides. Make your best case, lay out coherently and completely all factors (emphasis on facts and evidence), and see what happens.

There are other experiences here (some postivie, some negative) but the cases are all different - i.e. no way to directly compare your cases - so again, no real way to find out save actually applying for PRTD.

 

[canuck78]

Hi experts, My wife and me are PR from 2009. First renewal of PR Card done in 2014. Second renewal was due in August 2019. But we were short of 231 days of RO because we were repeatedly required to stay in India few months each in 2015, 2017 , in 2018. Whenever we return to Canada we could stay only few months in these years because of my 97 year old father used to get repeatedly critical due to old age sickness and required hospitalization. Our last exit from Canada was on 5 January 2020, before renewal of our PR Cards because we were short of 231days. From 7 January 2020 we were with my father at the hospital, and in April 2020 due to severe pneumonia he left all of us.
Unfortunately after the bereavement of my father, from April 2020 COVID 19 pandemic, frequent lockdown and International travel ban were another unexpected impact on us and could not return to Canada so far. Currently our PR Card is not valid for a return. I seek the help of expert's opinion and suggestion regarding a possibility of our return to Canada. As we do not have a visa for USA we cannot travel from India to USA and cross the boarder from there.

Will the COVID 19 pandemic situation all over the countries and Travel Ban will be reason for granting us PRTD from India. Because of the US Embassy has a huge backlog of pending visa interviews, no chance for a visit visa to USA in the near future.

Travel has been possible from India during the majority of the pandemic. Your only option is apply for a PRTD based on H&C. How many days have you spent in Canada during the past 5 years. You will need to provide proof of hospitalizations, proof that there were no other relatives in India who could care for him (no siblings in India for example), etc. Your level of establishment in Canada should also be included. You seem to have been able to return for multiple months some years. Did you both work in Canada during these periods in Canada, did you rent a home or do you own a home in Canada, were you ever able to establish yourselves in Canada since you received PR?

 

[Anrojak]

Travel has been possible from India during the majority of the pandemic. Your only option is apply for a PRTD based on H&C. How many days have you spent in Canada during the past 5 years. You will need to provide proof of hospitalizations, proof that there were no other relatives in India who could care for him (no siblings in India for example), etc. Your level of establishment in Canada should also be included. You seem to have been able to return for multiple months some years. Did you both work in Canada during these periods in Canada, did you rent a home or do you own a home in Canada, were you ever able to establish yourselves in Canada since you received PR?

Hi Canuck78,

Appreciate your views and suggestions. My self and wife seniors and retired. We share a floor of our son's ( Citizen ) house in Ontario. I have three younger siblings. Brothers are settled in Germany and UK . Sister is married and living with family in Switzerland. Being the eldest son I took over the responsibility of taking care of him because the house and property is mine and my siblings shares were already disposed off when they permanently settled abroad. But they used to come and spend some days with him during his serious illness. However I kept all records of hospitalization and medical reports.

I can establish our residency in Canada as we both regularly file tax returns since 2010. we have bank accounts, card statements, Ontario Driver's licenses and Health Cards.

 

[canuck78]

Hi Canuck78,

Appreciate your views and suggestions. My self and wife seniors and retired. We share a floor of our son's ( Citizen ) house in Ontario. I have three younger siblings. Brothers are settled in Germany and UK . Sister is married and living with family in Switzerland. Being the eldest son I took over the responsibility of taking care of him because the house and property is mine and my siblings shares were already disposed off when they permanently settled abroad. But they used to come and spend some days with him during his serious illness. However I kept all records of hospitalization and medical reports.

I can establish our residency in Canada as we both regularly file tax returns since 2010. we have bank accounts, card statements, Ontario Driver's licenses and Health Cards.

Your health cards are likely not valid. Even if you have a valid health card you must meet the residency requirement to qualify for healthcare coverage or else you lose your health coverage and can be asked to pay back any healthcare you use. You may have lost your health coverage back many years ago. Assume you mean you have been filing your taxes as non-residents for the years where you have been out of Canada for all or most of the year. Living in your son’s home when not in your home in India is not considered the same as owning a home in Canada. All you can do is apply and see what happens. You have a home in India where you have spent the majority of the past 5+ years so that will also be considered.

 

[BadGamer6]

Travel has been possible from India during the majority of the pandemic. Your only option is apply for a PRTD based on H&C. How many days have you spent in Canada during the past 5 years. You will need to provide proof of hospitalizations, proof that there were no other relatives in India who could care for him (no siblings in India for example), etc. Your level of establishment in Canada should also be included. You seem to have been able to return for multiple months some years. Did you both work in Canada during these periods in Canada, did you rent a home or do you own a home in Canada, were you ever able to establish yourselves in Canada since you received PR?

I'm sorry to hear about all the things you have to go through. It must be really tough especially during the pandemic.

I read what you wrote above, just my own observation - by NO means it's professional - I think you do have a strong H&C case. But it's time to seek professional advice from lawyers and hear what they say about the PRTD. And I agree with @armoured is you need to prepare REALLY, REALLY well for your PRTD to make your case convincing.

Best of luck.

 

[armoured]

I read what you wrote above, just my own observation - by NO means it's professional - I think you do have a strong H&C case. But it's time to seek professional advice from lawyers and hear what they say about the PRTD. And I agree with @armoured is you need to prepare REALLY, REALLY well for your PRTD to make your case convincing.

I take no position on how strong it is.

I will say this: it will be quite difficult for IRCC to argue* that covid is not a significant H&C factor when the government has taken extraordinary steps not just to say that most travellers should not travel, but to actually prevent or limit travel (including things like quarantine).

Repeat, once again, this does not mean that all H&C requests will be approved "because covid." Covid alone may not be enough in many cases.

But it simply will not be credible for government lawyers to argue it's not a significant and substantive factor for at least some travellers in some periods of time.

[*I wrote 'to argue' which, of course, strictly speaking only comes up in cases of appeals; I'm shorthanding, though, for the whole process - IRCC officers and CBSA know the end-game is appeal and their points have to be credible, i.e. coherent arguments will eventually have to be made. It may work the other way around - they don't think up arguments in advance, but follow the policy and cases first and get to the legal first cuts later, but the end result will still hold that government policy matters and arguments will have to be clear why H&C not warranted despite covid.

We'll eventually - possibly a few years from now yet - see some cases/decisions on this - that government guidance and warnings DO NOT TRAVEL in big red lights are, indeed, in some circumstances, good reasons that PRs should, ahem, NOT TRAVEL (not have travelled at the time in question), and perhaps good reasons, if only partial, for not being in compliance. (And then some decisions will say 'nonetheless appeal denied' and some the opposite, depending on circumstances - but they won't just dismiss covid as nothing.)]

 

[BadGamer6]

I take no position on how strong it is.

I will say this: it will be quite difficult for IRCC to argue* that covid is not a significant H&C factor when the government has taken extraordinary steps not just to say that most travellers should not travel, but to actually prevent or limit travel (including things like quarantine).

Repeat, once again, this does not mean that all H&C requests will be approved "because covid." Covid alone may not be enough in many cases.

But it simply will not be credible for government lawyers to argue it's not a significant and substantive factor for at least some travellers in some periods of time.

[*I wrote 'to argue' which, of course, strictly speaking only comes up in cases of appeals; I'm shorthanding, though, for the whole process - IRCC officers and CBSA know the end-game is appeal and their points have to be credible, i.e. coherent arguments will eventually have to be made. It may work the other way around - they don't think up arguments in advance, but follow the policy and cases first and get to the legal first cuts later, but the end result will still hold that government policy matters and arguments will have to be clear why H&C not warranted despite covid.

We'll eventually - possibly a few years from now yet - see some cases/decisions on this - that government guidance and warnings DO NOT TRAVEL in big red lights are, indeed, in some circumstances, good reasons that PRs should, ahem, NOT TRAVEL (not have travelled at the time in question), and perhaps good reasons, if only partial, for not being in compliance. (And then some decisions will say 'nonetheless appeal denied' and some the opposite, depending on circumstances - but they won't just dismiss covid as nothing.)]

Agreed 100%. COVID can be a factor, just any other factors under H&C, but COVID alone just wouldn't explain everything. The pandemic has only been going on for less than 2 years. Well yes of course some people are impacted by covid so they couldn't travel back because they had their personal commitment whether before or during the pandemic - and I believe IRCC has the correct judgement to exercise those cases and give them H&C approval - but I just really doubt the whole thing would put the majority out of RO compliance. I just tend to think covid is factor among all factors that are being actively when a H&C is called. But whether that is being taken with more or less weight, it really depends on the personal circumstance of the applicant themselves. It's a multi-faceted process after all.

 

[armoured]

Agreed 100%. COVID can be a factor, just any other factors under H&C, but COVID alone just wouldn't explain everything. ... and I believe IRCC has the correct judgement to exercise those cases and give them H&C approval -...
I just tend to think covid is factor among all factors that are being actively when a H&C is called. But whether that is being taken with more or less weight, it really depends on the personal circumstance of the applicant themselves. It's a multi-faceted process after all.

I do not outright disagree with anything you've said here. And I'll reiterate again and again - "because covid" is not going to be a magic phrase that resolves all compliance problems.

It's pretty easy to think about in terms of extremes: someone who's out of Canada ten years+ probably won't be able to successfully claim "because covid." Someone a few months out, coming from countries with severe lockdowns or travel limitations - possibliy there won't be any question at all. (There will be edge cases of other factors in each extreme that may go the opposite way - details matter).

Everyone "in between" - well, IRCC decides. May as well get the case in front of them and see how it plays out.

Where I've been objecting here, in various threads and in response to various comments, are where argument is being made "you could have travelled anyway despite covid." Well, maybe - but if you're immunocompromised? Elderly? Other health conditions? (Leaving vulnerable family members behind in other countries?) Etc. Or maybe - just maybe - someone will consider the argument "I did not think it was safe to travel because the government said so repeatedly" to be pretty damn convincing. I think it's not a bad prima facie case but details will matter.

I'm not trying to decide or adjudicate each case - as you said, IRCC has the judgment to exercise (and an appeal process where perhaps not exercised properly). Personally I think it will be hard to argue covid should not be given a lot of weight - given the worldwide reaction of all governments, hard to make the case it's not serious.

But you're quite right - none of us know how much weight.

To reiterate again: everyone has their opinion, either "beauty contest" version (i.e. what we think IRCC will do based on more or less informed guesses) or "personal preference" version (what they think IRCC should do).

Either way: for someone as in the case of the original poster of this thread - apply to IRCC, make the best case you can - including all aspects of covid - and see how it goes. Any guesses - more informed or less informed, informed by experience and logic or personal preferences/moral code - are just that, guesses.

 

[Anrojak]

Your health cards are likely not valid. Even if you have a valid health card you must meet the residency requirement to qualify for healthcare coverage or else you lose your health coverage and can be asked to pay back any healthcare you use. You may have lost your health coverage back many years ago. Assume you mean you have been filing your taxes as non-residents for the years where you have been out of Canada for all or most of the year. Living in your son’s home when not in your home in India is not considered the same as owning a home in Canada. All you can do is apply and see what happens. You have a home in India where you have spent the majority of the past 5+ years so that will also be considered.

As my parents are no more, I believe there is no need to continue for the rest of life in India. But I will not dispose the property and house we own in India unless there is a go signal from Canadian Embassy. The PRTD will have a validity of 6 months. Once it is approved (??) I can prepare to move to Canada for ever. No more intention to exit Canada until we become a citizens.

 

[canuck78]

As my parents are no more, I believe there is no need to continue for the rest of life in India. But I will not dispose the property and house we own in India unless there is a go signal from Canadian Embassy. The PRTD will have a validity of 6 months. Once it is approved (??) I can prepare to move to Canada for ever. No more intention to exit Canada until we become a citizens.

If the PRTD is approved you can sell the property but I agree that it makes no sense to sell a property if you don’t have a guarantee that they can return to Canada as PRs. As previously noted their health cards have likely not been valid for a long time if they have not met the RO to keep your health coverage in your province. Even if approved they will need to reapply for a new health card.

 

[Anrojak]

Thank you very much Canuck78 for your advice. I will post my experience here after getting any info about PRTD and further developments. Appreciate the advices and opinions of every one.

 

[Bloodrose]

As my parents are no more, I believe there is no need to continue for the rest of life in India. But I will not dispose the property and house we own in India unless there is a go signal from Canadian Embassy. The PRTD will have a validity of 6 months. Once it is approved (??) I can prepare to move to Canada for ever. No more intention to exit Canada until we become a citizens.

My understanding is there is no fixed period for PRTD's. What they issue to you will depend on circumstances and the discretion of the processing officer. When I applied for mine last year, I requested and was quickly issued with a 1 year multiple entry document but then I had no potential RO compliance issues going against me.

I believe the standard is a 6 month single entry document but they can also issue one with a shorter validity period if they feel the need to do so.

Tbh PRTD's are a very strange concept. It's the only document of its type I know of which isn't actually a visa. It's simply something to get you past checks by an airline, cruise or bus company. It can't even be compared to the Australian RRV because that serves a slightly different purpose.