Proving Canadian work experience on Express Entry application

[jes_ON]

Thanks. I will speak with the CRA about a copy of the T4. Presumably they can provide a copy of the NOA as well? The agency never sent anything like that to me when I left.

NOA = "notice of assessment" = what the CRA sends to you after you file your tax return. If you did not file your tax return, then the CRA won't have the NOA.

I've also been told that Service Canada can provide a copy of my ROE however the online portals aren't working for me. I assume that is because my SIN expired several years ago.

Your SIN is still your SIN I believe, but not sure why it isn't working. It's possible that old ROEs are not available online anyway, but doesn't hurt to contact Service Canada.

 

[Bloodrose]

NOA = "notice of assessment" = what the CRA sends to you after you file your tax return. If you did not file your tax return, then the CRA won't have the NOA.

Your SIN is still your SIN I believe, but not sure why it isn't working. It's possible that old ROEs are not available online anyway, but doesn't hurt to contact Service Canada.

I did file a tax return but I'm not sure if it covered that period since I moved to Canada in late January so one tax year was almost at an end and I didn't file anything until the year after that. The tax return I filed was handled by the international office because they had to mail my refund cheque to me in Europe.

 

[Bloodrose]

Just to add that I have found a copy of the tax return that I filed via UFile and it didn't mention my first job on it, only the second job.

 

[Bloodrose]

Sorry to bump this but does anybody know how in the hell I can get a copy of an RoE from outside Canada?

I contacted Service Canada who directed me to the Employment Insurance section but they only have a 1-800 number and I am struggling to get an answer from it. It either says they are too busy to accept any calls or just traps me in an automated voice system loop.

I have found the RoE for the second job that I did over the weekend but I am 99% sure that my first employer never issued one to me. I have read that in some cases employers will just submit them online and there is no longer a legal obligation for them to provide the actual document to you. Because my SIN has expired I am not allowed to access any online Service Canada systems.

 

[Bloodrose]

I'm sorry to bump this again.

So essentially Service Canada have informed me that my first employer never filed an RoE on my behalf. They are pursuing that and are also sending a letter to me that confirms that no RoE can be found on their systems.

My second and longer-term Canadian employer are surprisingly not responding to my requests for documents. I will try to chase them further before giving up but after receiving the documents that I have requested from the Canadian government, I will have the following.

Job 1:

T4
Contract and Work Schedule
Letter from colleague stating duties/personal reference
Letter from Service Canada stating that an RoE doesn't seem to have been filed
Emails from recruitment agency and proof of attempts to contact both recruitment agency and client


Job 2:
T4
RoE
2 x Pay stubs
Copy of job description including name of HR contact.
Emails from recruitment agency and proof of attempts to contact employer

I guess my question is, do I need employer reference letters in addition to the above or would providing the above along with a letter to explain the situation be sufficient?

 

[kryt0n]

An ROE isn't essential.

I don't have one for my job as I don't believe they every produced one, but my reference letter covers all and I have my T4's and NOA.

Essentially look at the requirements CIC want out of the reference letter and separate them. If you can't produce a reference letter that includes all of these, you can produce documents that contains all the information and hope that it ties together.

Best of luck.

 

[Bloodrose]

An ROE isn't essential.

I don't have one for my job as I don't believe they every produced one, but my reference letter covers all and I have my T4's and NOA.

Essentially look at the requirements CIC want out of the reference letter and separate them. If you can't produce a reference letter that includes all of these, you can produce documents that contains all the information and hope that it ties together.

Best of luck.

Thanks for your reply. Is this still considered to be roughly what the reference letter is supposed to include?

http://www.fsw2014.info/sample-reference-letter/

I have most of that but the business card thing is a no-no on both fronts because one of my employers has closed and the other one doesn't provide any kind of personal/character reference due to their own HR policies.

I think the RoE, Job Description and T4 should all contain details regarding what I was paid, the role I fulfilled and the period of employment for my second job. The only thing that I don't have for my 2nd job is a copy of the employment contracts.

I intend to make one last ditch attempt to contact my second employer by phone but if I can't get anything from them then I think we will either just need to give up or submit what I have and hope for the best.

 

[kryt0n]

Ok, people need to start going by exactly what is on CIC's website and stop reading forums or other pages.

CIC require the following:

Purpose

To prove each work experience claim and to validate that the applicant meets program requirements

Document requirements

The personalized document checklist in applicants’ online account prompts the applicant with an upload field for each work experience declared.
At the completeness check, the processing office determines only whether the required documents are included. The validity or fraudulence of the information is assessed only if and when the application is placed into processing.
The following documents are mandatory for each work experience declared:

a reference or experience letter from the employer, which
should be an official document printed on company letterhead (must include the applicant’s name, the company’s contact information [address, telephone number and email address], and the name, title and signature of the immediate supervisor or personnel officer at the company),
should indicate all positions held while employed at the company and must include the following details: job title, duties and responsibilities, job status (if current job), dates worked for the company, number of work hours per week and annual salary plus benefits; and
if the applicant is self-employed, articles of incorporation or other evidence of business ownership, evidence of self-employment income and documentation from third-party individuals indicating the service provided along with payment details (self-declared main duties or affidavits are not acceptable proof of self-employed work experience).
If the work experience is in Canada, proof may include copies of T4 tax information slips and notices of assessment issued by the Canada Revenue Agency (the time period for these documents should reflect the work experience timeframe [e.g., work experience from 2006 to 2008 requires only documents from those calendar years]).

That's it. Ignore every other example website. JUST FOLLOW CIC'S INSTRUCTIONS!!! http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/express/intake-complete.asp

 

[Bloodrose]

Ok, people need to start going by exactly what is on CIC's website and stop reading forums or other pages.

CIC require the following:

Purpose

To prove each work experience claim and to validate that the applicant meets program requirements

Document requirements

The personalized document checklist in applicants’ online account prompts the applicant with an upload field for each work experience declared.
At the completeness check, the processing office determines only whether the required documents are included. The validity or fraudulence of the information is assessed only if and when the application is placed into processing.
The following documents are mandatory for each work experience declared:

a reference or experience letter from the employer, which
should be an official document printed on company letterhead (must include the applicant’s name, the company’s contact information [address, telephone number and email address], and the name, title and signature of the immediate supervisor or personnel officer at the company),
should indicate all positions held while employed at the company and must include the following details: job title, duties and responsibilities, job status (if current job), dates worked for the company, number of work hours per week and annual salary plus benefits; and
if the applicant is self-employed, articles of incorporation or other evidence of business ownership, evidence of self-employment income and documentation from third-party individuals indicating the service provided along with payment details (self-declared main duties or affidavits are not acceptable proof of self-employed work experience).
If the work experience is in Canada, proof may include copies of T4 tax information slips and notices of assessment issued by the Canada Revenue Agency (the time period for these documents should reflect the work experience timeframe [e.g., work experience from 2006 to 2008 requires only documents from those calendar years]).

That's it. Ignore every other example website. JUST FOLLOW CIC'S INSTRUCTIONS!!! http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/express/intake-complete.asp

Well to be fair, it doesn't help that the CIC website seems to contradict itself.

The following documents are mandatory for each work experience declared:

a reference or experience letter from the employer, which
should be an official document printed on company letterhead (must include the applicant’s name, the company’s contact information [address, telephone number and email address], and the name, title and signature of the immediate supervisor or personnel officer at the company),
should indicate all positions held while employed at the company and must include the following details: job title, duties and responsibilities, job status (if current job), dates worked for the company, number of work hours per week and annual salary plus benefits; and
if the applicant is self-employed, articles of incorporation or other evidence of business ownership, evidence of self-employment income and documentation from third-party individuals indicating the service provided along with payment details (self-declared main duties or affidavits are not acceptable proof of self-employed work experience).
If the work experience is in Canada, proof may include copies of T4 tax information slips and notices of assessment issued by the Canada Revenue Agency (the time period for these documents should reflect the work experience timeframe [e.g., work experience from 2006 to 2008 requires only documents from those calendar years]).

Does that mean that the letter is only mandatory if you are referring to foreign work experience and is otherwise optional for Canadian experience as long as you have other official documents to back it up?

I don't have a NoA. I did file a tax return and received a refund in 2012 but I'm not sure what the NoA would prove that an RoE or T4 wouldn't tbh.

 

[kryt0n]

It's saying that all work experience needs a reference letter as per their guidelines.

Its also saying that if it's Canadian you have the option to back it up with T4's etc.
"If the work experience is in Canada, proof may include copies of ...."


It doesn't contradict itself at all.

 

[Bloodrose]

It's saying that all work experience needs a reference letter as per their guidelines.

Its also saying that if it's Canadian you have the option to back it up with T4's etc.
"If the work experience is in Canada, proof may include copies of ...."


It doesn't contradict itself at all.

So in other words if I don't have the letter then it isn't going to happen?

From my first job I do have a letter but it is from a colleague because the agency who hired me went out of business and every attempt to contact them has failed.

From my second job I do not have a letter and am unlikely to get one because they do not provide personal references under any circumstance. They made that clear to me when my contract ended and I left.

 

[kryt0n]

So in other words if I don't have the letter then it isn't going to happen?

From my first job I do have a letter but it is from a colleague because the agency who hired me went out of business and every attempt to contact them has failed.

From my second job I do not have a letter and am unlikely to get one because they do not provide personal references under any circumstance. They made that clear to me when my contract ended and I left.

Ok, no. Look. They want the letter in the format they are asking above. If you can't provide that in a single document try and make sure your evidence includes all those features. For instance:
should be an official document printed on company letterhead (must include the applicant’s name, the company’s contact information [address, telephone number and email address], and the name, title and signature of the immediate supervisor or personnel officer at the company): Don't have this? Provide any letter you have with the companies details. If the company is out of business. Anything you have here. Get a letter from a previous colleague stating you worked there.

should indicate all positions held while employed at the company and must include the following details: job title, duties and responsibilities, job status (if current job), dates worked for the company, number of work hours per week and annual salary plus benefits; and Again, get a colleagues, provide a contract, provide pay slips or T4's showing salary.

If the work experience is in Canada, proof may include copies of T4 tax information slips and notices of assessment issued by the Canada Revenue Agency (the time period for these documents should reflect the work experience timeframe [e.g., work experience from 2006 to 2008 requires only documents from those calendar years]). If you have NOA's or T4's submit them.

You have to prove you worked there and that you did the duties in the NOC. If you have to, submit a self declaration, but any other evidence you have you have to put in there to back it up.

 

[Bloodrose]

Thanks for your reply. I do appreciate your help with this. I am mostly concerned about the second job now as I doubt I can get any more from the first one. I've been lucky to get what I've got so far tbh.

Ok, no. Look. They want the letter in the format they are asking above. If you can't provide that in a single document try and make sure your evidence includes all those features. For instance:
should be an official document printed on company letterhead (must include the applicant’s name, the company’s contact information [address, telephone number and email address], and the name, title and signature of the immediate supervisor or personnel officer at the company): Don't have this? Provide any letter you have with the companies details. If the company is out of business. Anything you have here. Get a letter from a previous colleague stating you worked there.

I have a job description that includes the name of the person who headed HR for my section at that time (I believe she doesn't anymore). It isn't on letterhead. I will contact them to make a request for a reference letter and copies of the employment contracts but if they refuse then there is little that I can do. I do keep in touch with some people who still work there on social media but I cannot ask them for a reference letter because that also contravenes the company's HR policy.

should indicate all positions held while employed at the company and must include the following details: job title, duties and responsibilities, job status (if current job), dates worked for the company, number of work hours per week and annual salary plus benefits; and Again, get a colleagues, provide a contract, provide pay slips or T4's showing salary.

The job description shows that. Copies of my T4's are being mailed to me from Revenue Canada. I also have an RoE from that job stating my start and end dates and a couple of pay slips that are on official letter headed stationary.

If the work experience is in Canada, proof may include copies of T4 tax information slips and notices of assessment issued by the Canada Revenue Agency (the time period for these documents should reflect the work experience timeframe [e.g., work experience from 2006 to 2008 requires only documents from those calendar years]). If you have NOA's or T4's submit them.

I have copies of the T4's being sent over to me from Canada. I don't have an NoA but I could request it if it would help.

Tbh, I can see now why immigration consultants make their money and why people are drawn to using them. Unless everything is cut and dry in your case, managing this application process yourself seems to be really complicated.

 

[kryt0n]

You have more than some people that submit their applications.

Try your best to provide what you can, even an email from HR saying they can't produce a letter is proof you tried. Imagine just trying to proof to a stranger you worked there, but someone who doesn't like you.

 

[OMG_Chakromakro]

You have more than some people that submit their applications.

Try your best to provide what you can, even an email from HR saying they can't produce a letter is proof you tried. Imagine just trying to proof to a stranger you worked there, but someone who doesn't like you.

:'( :'( sorta true !