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PR with less than 2 years (Not Meeting residency requirement)

nazimsyed

Member
Jul 2, 2017
13
0
Hi everyone,

I hold valid canadian PR Status (Valid till Dec 2018) and planning to relocate to canada in April 2018. My PR is valid for less than 2 years and I could not meet the minimum residency requirement of 2 years. I had only travelled to canada in july 2013, for a period of only 10 days. I could not immigrate to canada due to personal commitments (my mother and mother-in-law health issues).

I am planning to move to canada in May 2018 and ready to stay there for straight 2 years. Appreciate if some one can answer the following questions:
1) What are the chances that I would be allowed to enter canada (especially since I would be having only 6 months left on my PR Validity)?
2) My passport does not have any stamps that show my period of stay in canada. To avoid any unnecessary questions and risk of reporting or appeal, can I just tell the authorities that I stayed in canada previously and this is my 3rd and final visit and going to stay in canada forever? I am not very good at verbal communications and do not want to give any doubts and get me reported or deported.
3) If I am going to stay in Toronto, how much would it cost me per month (Rent, Food, Transportation and Mobile). I will stay single till I get a job and bring my family there.

Thanks...
 
R

rish888

Guest


IMMIGRATION ISSUES:


1) The chances you will be allowed to enter Canada are 100%. PR's have an unqualified right to enter Canada regardless of non-compliance, BUT the true question is whether or not you will be issued a Departure Order, which gives you 30 days to leave Canada unless you appeal. (In which case you can stay until your appeal.)

2) At the Immigration checkpoint at the airport, there is a significant chance that you will be issued a Departure Order if you are found to be not in compliance with your RO.

As countless other members say on this forum, answer questions honestly and directly, but don't volunteer information by yourself. (Basically, only speak when asked a question, and only speak as much as needed to answer the question. No need for anything more.)

Considering that Canada does not collect departure information and nothing on you passport screams living outside Canada, you may go though with no problem.

If you violation is detected, you will have the opportunity to explain to two officers (Initial officer and then the boss) on why they should allow you to stay in Canada. This is your best opportunity, make the fullest use of it if your situation comes to this.

If you are issued a Departure Order, appeal immediately. Statistical chances in an appeal are not good (especially when you don't have compelling humanitarian reasons.) but when you appeal you can stay in Canada until it's finalized.

Tips:

1) Avoid Pierre Elliot-Trudeau International Airport in Montreal. Quebec has the highest rate of detection when it comes to RO violations.

In the past 6 years, around 3,600 PR's were issued departure orders in Montreal for RO violation. In comparison, under 450 removal orders were issued at Pearson Airport Toronto and around 950 at Vancouver International.

From a statistical standpoint, Pearson Airport, Toronto seems to be your best bet.

2) If the officer detects your violation, don't try to contest/argue (since you know you have not been in compliance.) Instead explain your personal situation to the officer, show remorse for your transgression, and emphasis that you have now come for good.

COST OF LIVING:

Not exactly a question for this particular forum, but here you go. (General Figures for Greater Toronto Area)

You should be able to get a 1 bed-apartment for around CA$ 1,100 to CA$ 1,500/month.

Food: Meals at fast food restaurants should be under CA$ 10. A meal at a mid ranged restaurant around CA$ 20. If you are cooking, then budget around CA$ 200 to CA$ 300 for groceries/month. (Depending on what type of produce you purchase)

Phone: You should get phone plans for around CA$ 50-60/month.

Transport: I believe a monthly public transport pass is around CA$ 150.

You should budget another CA$ 100 to CA$ 200 for entertainment, clothes etc depending on how much you will go out.

Hope this helps and best of luck!
 
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nazimsyed

Member
Jul 2, 2017
13
0

IMMIGRATION ISSUES:


1) The chances you will be allowed to enter Canada are 100%. PR's have an unqualified right to enter Canada regardless of non-compliance, BUT the true question is whether or not you will be issued a Departure Order, which gives you 30 days to leave Canada unless you appeal. (In which case you can stay until your appeal.)

2) At the Immigration checkpoint at the airport, there is a significant chance that you will be issued a Departure Order if you are found to be not in compliance with your RO.

As countless other members say on this forum, answer questions honestly and directly, but don't volunteer information by yourself. (Basically, only speak when asked a question, and only speak as much as needed to answer the question. No need for anything more.)

Considering that Canada does not collect departure information and nothing on you passport screams living outside Canada, you may go though with no problem.

If you violation is detected, you will have the opportunity to explain to two officers (Initial officer and then the boss) on why they should allow you to stay in Canada. This is your best opportunity, make the fullest use of it if your situation comes to this.

If you are issued a Departure Order, appeal immediately. Statistical chances in an appeal are not good (especially when you don't have compelling humanitarian reasons.) but when you appeal you can stay in Canada until it's finalized.

Tips:

1) Avoid Pierre Elliot-Trudeau International Airport in Montreal. Quebec has the highest rate of detection when it comes to RO violations.

In the past 6 years, around 3,600 PR's were issued departure orders in Montreal for RO violation. In comparison, under 450 removal orders were issued at Pearson Airport Toronto and around 950 at Vancouver International.

From a statistical standpoint, Pearson Airport, Toronto seems to be your best bet.

2) If the officer detects your violation, don't try to contest/argue (since you know you have not been in compliance.) Instead explain your personal situation to the officer, show remorse for your transgression, and emphasis that you have now come for good.

COST OF LIVING:

Not exactly a question for this particular forum, but here you go. (General Figures for Greater Toronto Area)

You should be able to get a 1 bed-apartment for around CA$ 1,100 to CA$ 1,500/month.

Food: Meals at fast food restaurants should be under CA$ 10. A meal at a mid ranged restaurant around CA$ 20. If you are cooking, then budget around CA$ 200 to CA$ 300 for groceries/month. (Depending on what type of produce you purchase)

Phone: You should get phone plans for around CA$ 50-60/month.

Transport: I believe a monthly public transport pass is around CA$ 150.

You should budget another CA$ 100 to CA$ 200 for entertainment, clothes etc depending on how much you will go out.

Hope this helps and best of luck!
-------------------------------------
Thanks for your reply..
 

nazimsyed

Member
Jul 2, 2017
13
0
Thanks rish888 for your response. One more question, can I start the required process to appeal as a backup plan. If so, how shall I start preparing for this (Documentation required, fee required etc..). I would appreciate if you could highlight anything I am missing here, that would help me in my settlement in Canada..
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
93,178
20,656
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Does your family already have PR as well? Or will you be sponsoring them? If you plan to sponsor them for PR, you should be aware that you won't be able to do this until you have spent enough time in Canada to meet the residency obligation.
 

nazimsyed

Member
Jul 2, 2017
13
0
Does your family already have PR as well? Or will you be sponsoring them? If you plan to sponsor them for PR, you should be aware that you won't be able to do this until you have spent enough time in Canada to meet the residency obligation.
Yes, I have a family (Wife and 3 Kids). I thought of sponsoring them once I get settled in Canada (Land a Job). Is there any way I could sponsor them once I land in canada?.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
93,178
20,656
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Yes, I have a family (Wife and 3 Kids). I thought of sponsoring them once I get settled in Canada (Land a Job). Is there any way I could sponsor them once I land in canada?.
No - you can't. You have to wait until you meet the residency obligation before you can sponsor them. If you try to sponsor them before you meet RO, the application will be refused and CIC will start proceedings to revoke your PR status. So this means you'll need to live in Canada for 2 years before you will qualify to sponsor them.
 
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nazimsyed

Member
Jul 2, 2017
13
0
No - you can't. You have to wait until you meet the residency obligation before you can sponsor them. If you try to sponsor them before you meet RO, the application will be refused and CIC will start proceedings to revoke your PR status. So this means you'll need to live in Canada for 2 years before you will qualify to sponsor them.
Thanks Scylla for the information. Is it allowed to bring/sponsor them on visit visa atleast.
.
 
R

rish888

Guest
Thanks Scylla for the information. Is it allowed to bring/sponsor them on visit visa atleast.
.
You can't really "sponsor" a visit visa. They can apply for a visit visa if the want to come to Canada by themselves.
As long as there are no serious financial/security/lack of ties to home country issues, she and your children should get a visit visa with relative ease.

If your spouse comes to Canada on a visit visa and would like to stay longer, she can apply for an open work permit while inside Canada for herself and her dependents (your children.) These work permits are usually valid for 3 years during which she can stay without issue.

This will allow you enough time to come back into compliance with your obligations and sponsor your family.
 
R

rish888

Guest
Thanks rish888 for your response. One more question, can I start the required process to appeal as a backup plan. If so, how shall I start preparing for this (Documentation required, fee required etc..). I would appreciate if you could highlight anything I am missing here, that would help me in my settlement in Canada..
Quick Points:

1) Because you have not met your residency obligation, the only "case" you can make is a H&C one.

Keep in mind that while people often bring up H&C in the context of an IAD appeal, the first time you make your H&C case is not to the IAD, but to the CBSA officer at the point-of-entry.

It is imperative that you have your H&C case and supporting document ready before you even get on the flight to Canada.

Note that CBSA and the IAD consider the same H&C factors when making their decision, but historical data suggests that CBSA officers tend to be more lenient than the IAD.

To understand what documents you need, it is imperative you understand how H&C pleas are analyzed.

H&C pleas are reviewed based on the following factors:

1: Extent of RO Violation. (More days you have, better for you.)

(You should keep documents that show your stay in Canada. Passport stamps, credit card statements. Letter from employer in Canada saying you have been working for them for "x" days etc.)

2: Reasons for stay outside Canada.

If there was something that prevented you from settling in Canada, ex: sick relative, you were somehow forced to return to your home country, inability to leave your home country for whatever reason etc you should have documents that back up your narrative.

3: Whether return to Canada was made at earliest available opportunity?

Did you return as soon as you had the chance? Ex: Caring for a terminal relative then returning to Canada shortly after said relative passed away. In this case you would need death certificate, doctor's records etc.

I don't know your particular case, but if you believe you returned to Canada as soon as you could, then have documentation to support this.

4: Establishment in Canada, past and present:

It is best to show the officer that you are solidly established in Canada. If possible, it is also best to show you are established in Canada more than you are in other countries.

Documents that can show establishment, ex: bank accounts, property holdings, employment etc. Basically proof of ties.

5: Hardship to you and your family:

Would being removed from Canada cause signification hardship? Usually, this hardship must be unusual and undeserved. If you believe being removed from Canada would cause you hardship, have documents to support this.

Ex: In one IAD case an LGBT individual from Jordan was the subject of an appeal. She testified that should she be removed to Jordan she would be persecuted by the government and society.

To back this up, she showed documents attesting to the lack of protection for LGBT individuals in Jordan.

The take away from this is that the mere mention of hardship is not enough. You must demonstrate proof that would convince a reasonable person that should you be removed from Canada it is more likely that not that you will be subject to undeserved hardship.

Note: Reasons such as "I like Canada, so being removed would be a hardship," are generally not acceptable.

6: Best Interests of children involved:
Would it be in your child's best interest that you retain your PR? If you believe so, then best to have some proof.

General Tips:

If you appeal, get a good lawyer.

Get your story straight before you get on the plane. (by this I don't mean fudge one up, but rather analyze what lead you to violating your RO.)

Look at the above following facts and ask yourself which factors work in your favor, and to what extent. Based on this, gather documents to support your claim.

Remember that when factors are being considered, there is a weighing process. This means all factors are not created equal. For example, let's say you have 2 negative factors and 3 positive ones. Based on the circumstances, your negative factors could be assigned minimum weight while your positives assigned significant weight, allowing you to retain your status. On the contrary, your negative factors could be assigned significant weight, while your positives assigned only moderate weight. This would not work in your favor. Thus when considering each factor, try not only to show that the factor in question works in your favor, but also that it should be assigned significant weight.

In conclusion,

Make your best effort at the airport. Think of it like this:

The CBSA officer is like your Algebra teacher.

The IAD is your high school principal.

Way easier to convince a teacher than a principal.

It is far easier to convince the CBSA officer than the IAD. When you arrive at the airport, have in your carry-on all document that support your H&C case. (Remember: the first time you make a H&C case is not to the IAD, but to the CBSA officer.) Have your facts ready before you get on the plane.

If reported, consult a lawyer and follow his/her advise.

Final Note: Staying outside Canada because of better job prospects/inability to find a job in Canada is not only an unacceptable H&C reason,(unless extremely compelling circumstances exist) in most cases such a statement could quite possibly draw disdain from the officer. Instead, if your reasons for departure were for nothing but your own benefit, you can try to say you returned to wrap up affairs and this took longer than expected, you wanted to be fully prepared for life in Canada etc. Also remember your current intentions can carry significant weight, if you can satisfactorily demonstrate the officer that you have now truly come for good and are unlikely to breach your RO again, this may quite possibly work in your favor.

Hope this helps!
 
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Reactions: nazimsyed

nazimsyed

Member
Jul 2, 2017
13
0
Quick Points:

1) Because you have not met your residency obligation, the only "case" you can make is a H&C one.

Keep in mind that while people often bring up H&C in the context of an IAD appeal, the first time you make your H&C case is not to the IAD, but to the CBSA officer at the point-of-entry.

It is imperative that you have your H&C case and supporting document ready before you even get on the flight to Canada.

Note that CBSA and the IAD consider the same H&C factors when making their decision, but historical data suggests that CBSA officers tend to be more lenient than the IAD.

To understand what documents you need, it is imperative you understand how H&C pleas are analyzed.

H&C pleas are reviewed based on the following factors:

1: Extent of RO Violation. (More days you have, better for you.)

(You should keep documents that show your stay in Canada. Passport stamps, credit card statements. Letter from employer in Canada saying you have been working for them for "x" days etc.)

2: Reasons for stay outside Canada.

If there was something that prevented you from settling in Canada, ex: sick relative, you were somehow forced to return to your home country, inability to leave your home country for whatever reason etc you should have documents that back up your narrative.

3: Whether return to Canada was made at earliest available opportunity?

Did you return as soon as you had the chance? Ex: Caring for a terminal relative then returning to Canada shortly after said relative passed away. In this case you would need death certificate, doctor's records etc.

I don't know your particular case, but if you believe you returned to Canada as soon as you could, then have documentation to support this.

4: Establishment in Canada, past and present:

It is best to show the officer that you are solidly established in Canada. If possible, it is also best to show you are established in Canada more than you are in other countries.

Documents that can show establishment, ex: bank accounts, property holdings, employment etc. Basically proof of ties.

5: Hardship to you and your family:

Would being removed from Canada cause signification hardship? Usually, this hardship must be unusual and undeserved. If you believe being removed from Canada would cause you hardship, have documents to support this.

Ex: In one IAD case an LGBT individual from Jordan was the subject of an appeal. She testified that should she be removed to Jordan she would be persecuted by the government and society.

To back this up, she showed documents attesting to the lack of protection for LGBT individuals in Jordan.

The take away from this is that the mere mention of hardship is not enough. You must demonstrate proof that would convince a reasonable person that should you be removed from Canada it is more likely that not that you will be subject to undeserved hardship.

Note: Reasons such as "I like Canada, so being removed would be a hardship," are generally not acceptable.

6: Best Interests of children involved:
Would it be in your child's best interest that you retain your PR? If you believe so, then best to have some proof.

General Tips:

If you appeal, get a good lawyer.

Get your story straight before you get on the plane. (by this I don't mean fudge one up, but rather analyze what lead you to violating your RO.)

Look at the above following facts and ask yourself which factors work in your favor, and to what extent. Based on this, gather documents to support your claim.

Remember that when factors are being considered, there is a weighing process. This means all factors are not created equal. For example, let's say you have 2 negative factors and 3 positive ones. Based on the circumstances, your negative factors could be assigned minimum weight while your positives assigned significant weight, allowing you to retain your status. On the contrary, your negative factors could be assigned significant weight, while your positives assigned only moderate weight. This would not work in your favor. Thus when considering each factor, try not only to show that the factor in question works in your favor, but also that it should be assigned significant weight.

In conclusion,

Make your best effort at the airport. Think of it like this:

The CBSA officer is like your Algebra teacher.

The IAD is your high school principal.

Way easier to convince a teacher than a principal.

It is far easier to convince the CBSA officer than the IAD. When you arrive at the airport, have in your carry-on all document that support your H&C case. (Remember: the first time you make a H&C case is not to the IAD, but to the CBSA officer.) Have your facts ready before you get on the plane.

If reported, consult a lawyer and follow his/her advise.

Final Note: Staying outside Canada because of better job prospects/inability to find a job in Canada is not only an unacceptable H&C reason,(unless extremely compelling circumstances exist) in most cases such a statement could quite possibly draw disdain from the officer. Instead, if your reasons for departure were for nothing but your own benefit, you can try to say you returned to wrap up affairs and this took longer than expected, you wanted to be fully prepared for life in Canada etc. Also remember your current intentions can carry significant weight, if you can satisfactorily demonstrate the officer that you have now truly come for good and are unlikely to breach your RO again, this may quite possibly work in your favor.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the response. Things are much clear to me now.
 

nazimsyed

Member
Jul 2, 2017
13
0
Regarding Point #1 (Extent of RO Violation), I am planning to migrate in May 2018 and my PR is valid till Dec 2018. Will 6 Months be considered a OK Period or there is a huge risk that I will be reported. I have only stayed for 2 weeks in Canada before.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
93,178
20,656
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Regarding Point #1 (Extent of RO Violation), I am planning to migrate in May 2018 and my PR is valid till Dec 2018. Will 6 Months be considered a OK Period or there is a huge risk that I will be reported. I have only stayed for 2 weeks in Canada before.
There's always some risk of being reported. How big none of us can say. If you can, return earlier.
 

Rob_TO

VIP Member
Nov 7, 2012
11,427
1,551
Toronto
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Seoul, Korea
App. Filed.......
13-07-2012
AOR Received.
18-08-2012
File Transfer...
21-08-2012
Med's Done....
Sent with App
Passport Req..
N/R - Exempt
VISA ISSUED...
30-10-2012
LANDED..........
16-11-2012
You can't really "sponsor" a visit visa. They can apply for a visit visa if the want to come to Canada by themselves.
As long as there are no serious financial/security/lack of ties to home country issues, she and your children should get a visit visa with relative ease.

If your spouse comes to Canada on a visit visa and would like to stay longer, she can apply for an open work permit while inside Canada for herself and her dependents (your children.) These work permits are usually valid for 3 years during which she can stay without issue.

This will allow you enough time to come back into compliance with your obligations and sponsor your family.
No, his family will certainly NOT be entitled to any kind of work visa. If they can come as visitors, then they can stay as visitors but can't work. Also continually extending visitor status for several years may be difficult. Plus the children may find they need to pay international student fees to go to school here. The whole process will not be easy, and that's assuming he's not reported in the first place.

After the 2 years has passed to come back into compliance with the RO, then if family is in Canada legally only then can he can sponsor them for PR with an OWP app.