Pr obligations for a newbie

[sammy_engineer]

Hi all

I made soft landing at January /2015 and didnt not succeed getting a job , so i returned home I also stayed 2 months at 2016 and intend to stay another 2 months in 2017 still looking for a job .

From what i read on forum it seems that i should make my final move to canada before Jaunary 2018 ) as it will be 3 years since i got my PR card

My question is that , if i do not succeed getting a job this summer is it ok I returne after January 2018 ( because i already lived 6 months in canada in the past 3 years ) or is the officer will make me get into trouble because he will see that i made landing more than three years ago and flag me ?

thank you , Merci

 

[scylla]

None of us can answer that question. It depends on the CBSA official you speak to when you arrived. It's possible you may be reported for failing to meet the residency obligation. Also possible you won't.

 

[sammy_engineer]

None of us can answer that question. It depends on the CBSA official you speak to when you arrived. It's possible you may be reported for failing to meet the residency obligation. Also possible you won't.

Thanks for your reply dear scylla , i learned alot of thing about canada immigration process from your posts , regarding my question doe you mean it is better to move permanantly befor january 2018 to be on safe side ? Because i dont understan why the officer will report me if i have not exceeded the 3 years outside canada ?

Thank you

 

[scylla]

You should make sure you are outside of Canada for less than three years.

 

[spyfy]

This is how it works:

• If you enter Canada more than five years after you obtained PR count the days in Canada in the last five years before the date of entry. If you have 730, you are good.
• If you enter Canada less than five years after you obtained PR (this is your case), then: Count all the days you've been in Canada since you became a PR and add all the days from the day of entry to the date five years after you became a PR. If you have 730, you are good.

An example in your case:

• Say you became a PR on 2015-01-15
• Say you stayed in Canada a total of 60 days in 2016
• Say you stayed in Canada a total of 60 days in 2017
• Say you enter Canada on 2018-03-01

Then:

• You enter Canada less than 5 years after you became a PR, so the second case applies
• You stayed in Canada 120 days so far
• There is a total of 685 days from the day you enter (2018-03-01) to the five year deadline (2020-01-15)
• The total is 120+685 = 805
• So by the first time the five year deadline hits you will have more than 730 days and you are good

Please note that "you are good" does not mean that you will not be interrogated in detail by the border officer. Be prepared to explain the details, be prepared to be able to give the exact dates, be prepared to show documentation.

If you have a number of less than 730, you are in breach of your PR obligation and will be reported at the border unless you are lucky. Don't risk that. Stay on the safe side.

 

[sammy_engineer]

This is how it works:

• If you enter Canada more than five years after you obtained PR count the days in Canada in the last five years before the date of entry. If you have 730, you are good.
• If you enter Canada less than five years after you obtained PR (this is your case), then: Count all the days you've been in Canada since you became a PR and add all the days from the day of entry to the date five years after you became a PR. If you have 730, you are good.

An example in your case:

• Say you became a PR on 2015-01-15
• Say you stayed in Canada a total of 60 days in 2016
• Say you stayed in Canada a total of 60 days in 2017
• Say you enter Canada on 2018-03-01

Then:

• You enter Canada less than 5 years after you became a PR, so the second case applies
• You stayed in Canada 120 days so far
• There is a total of 685 days from the day you enter (2018-03-01) to the five year deadline (2020-01-15)
• The total is 120+685 = 805
• So by the first time the five year deadline hits you will have more than 730 days and you are good

Please note that "you are good" does not mean that you will not be interrogated in detail by the border officer. Be prepared to explain the details, be prepared to be able to give the exact dates, be prepared to show documentation.

If you have a number of less than 730, you are in breach of your PR obligation and will be reported at the border unless you are lucky. Don't risk that. Stay on the safe side.

Thanks you very much for your time and detailed response .

In case of your second scenario ( when i enter on 1/3/2018)
"how good im im i " ?
does cbsa "always " look with scrutiny to people who land after 3 years ?
Will logic work with them if i explain my situation ?
What are the consequences for my pr status if they are not convinced ?

Thanks again for your help

 

[spyfy]

Thanks you very much for your time and detailed response .

In case of your second scenario ( when i enter on 1/3/2018)
"how good im im i " ?
does cbsa "always " look with scrutiny to people who land after 3 years ?
Will logic work with them if i explain my situation ?
What are the consequences for my pr status if they are not convinced ?

Thanks again for your help

There is no set rule when CBSA apply extra scrutiny at the airport. There are people who have been in breach of their PR obligation and went through customs within minutes. There are people who have not been in breach of their PR obligation but were questioned in detail.

There is no "always". There is no rule.

Generally, be prepared to demonstrate the details of your absences and presences, bring flight tickets, old boarding passes (if you have them), and a simple table showing the day calculation. I would recommend that to any PR who is out of the country for more than a vacation for several weeks.

If you enter Canada while you are still good, you are doing nothing wrong. You are within the limits as prescribed by law. In the worst case the border officer wouldn't be convinced of your report and doesn't believe that you are above 730 (this is the more likely the less documentation you have) in which case he would report you. You would still be allowed in the country and be a PR. It's just that there would be a hearing where you have to provide evidence.

Again, there is no rule and no perfect recipe to cross the border. If there were a perfect recipe to avoid scrutiny, no one would be scrutinized. You have the legal right to be out of the country as long as you are above 730 days. Still you must demonstrate that this is the case. You must understand that if at the border you tell the border officer that you have exactly 732 days, he might scrutinize you much more than if you have 1000 days.

 

[sammy_engineer]

There is no set rule when CBSA apply extra scrutiny at the airport. There are people who have been in breach of their PR obligation and went through customs within minutes. There are people who have not been in breach of their PR obligation but were questioned in detail.

There is no "always". There is no rule.

Generally, be prepared to demonstrate the details of your absences and presences, bring flight tickets, old boarding passes (if you have them), and a simple table showing the day calculation. I would recommend that to any PR who is out of the country for more than a vacation for several weeks.

If you enter Canada while you are still good, you are doing nothing wrong. You are within the limits as prescribed by law. In the worst case the border officer wouldn't be convinced of your report and doesn't believe that you are above 730 (this is the more likely the less documentation you have) in which case he would report you. You would still be allowed in the country and be a PR. It's just that there would be a hearing where you have to provide evidence.

Again, there is no rule and no perfect recipe to cross the border. If there were a perfect recipe to avoid scrutiny, no one would be scrutinized. You have the legal right to be out of the country as long as you are above 730 days. Still you must demonstrate that this is the case. You must understand that if at the border you tell the border officer that you have exactly 732 days, he might scrutinize you much more than if you have 1000 days.

Thanks you ever so much for your help , it is really enlightening , I already prepared my tickets, boardings and started a simple table to add on .

Actually last year my wife attended a friend's wedding in montreal just only (10 months after issuing us a PR ) and a lady officer talked very rough to her saying " are you going to stay in canada or not " of course my wife was afraid and said yes I'm !!! though she still legally can spend more than 2 years outside of Canada !!

I just wanted to ask you the following please

1-in case we get a bad tempered officer and he reports us , does this process could affect our citizenship processing later on or it is one of those complicated court sessions that takes forever ?

2- also you mentioned if somone leave canada for a couple of weeks then he is usually ok ? does this mean i can make short visits of 3-4 weeks after i permenantly move ( even if i'm close to the 730 rule )

thanks again for your efforts , it is people like you on this forum that makes our lives easier and successful in canada

 

[spyfy]

Thanks you ever so much for your help , it is really enlightening , I already prepared my tickets, boardings and started a simple table to add on .

Actually last year my wife attended a friend's wedding in montreal just only (10 months after issuing us a PR ) and a lady officer talked very rough to her saying " are you going to stay in canada or not " of course my wife was afraid and said yes I'm !!! though she still legally can spend more than 2 years outside of Canada !!

I just wanted to ask you the following please

1-in case we get a bad tempered officer and he reports us , does this process could affect our citizenship processing later on or it is one of those complicated court sessions that takes forever ?

2- also you mentioned if somone leave canada for a couple of weeks then he is usually ok ? does this mean i can make short visits of 3-4 weeks after i permenantly move ( even if i'm close to the 730 rule )

thanks again for your efforts , it is people like you on this forum that makes our lives easier and successful in canada

First, one important advice: Some CBSA officers take the part of their training where they should remain vigilant a little bit too close to their heart. I once forgot to declare a $4 souvenir glass from the Hard Rock Café in New York on my customs formon my way back to Toronto (Mind that they didn't have to find it in my bad, I actually corrected myself within 10 seconds) and the officer said "you can read, right? you have a university degree right? So why did you not read the rules?" and then threatened me that "the next time we could take your visa away". In fact, they can't. (because the Immigration legislation and the customs legislation are two completely separate things). So it's intimidation tactics. While Canada is not the US, "even in Canada" it's unfortunately also the case that depending on your country of origin/your ethnicity, border officers are much more vigilant to some people than to others. At least that is my impression.

What I am trying to say is: Don't think too much about this one incident that your wife had. I know this can be very disconcerning. It takes a while to shake it off, but in the end it was nothing but words.

Now to your actual questions:

1 - You have legal rights as a permanent resident that are thankfully not at the whim of the temper of an immigration officer. If you happen to have bad luck and get to one of the aggressive ones (which are still, IMHO, the clear minority of border officers), remain calm, do not react to their aggression and simply answer all questions truthfully. As long as you are above the 730, you did nothing wrong. Even in the case that you get reported you did nothing wrong. Until the hearing is happening, your life can go on as normal and at the hearing you provide the same proof. But again, don't think too much about the hearing yet, you shouldn't get reported in the first place. If it comes to a hearing they will then decide that you, in fact, fulfilled the residency obligation and therefore you are alright. This will not affect your citizenship application later on at all. Most importantly: No border officer has the power to take your PR status away on the spot. Also, a "report" is not something that in itself is bad on your file in the long run. Just like your neighbour reporting you to the police because he thinks you build

2 - generally speaking, the shorter you have been out of Canada the less "suspicious" you are. That does not mean that cutting it close to 730 is not a problem in that case. There is no "golden rule" to escape more probing questions by the border officer. Generally, the further away you are from the 730 threshold, the better. Generally, the shorter you've been out of Canada, the better. Generally, the more documentation you have, the better. But there is no strict rule as to when they will ask you questions.

In total, though, I would recommend not to overthink this too much. The vast majority of PRs crosses Canadian borders without any fuss. This forum might give you a different impression. But keep in mind that no one goes to an immigration forum and says "Today I crossed the border and nothing happened".

 

[sammy_engineer]

First, one important advice: Some CBSA officers take the part of their training where they should remain vigilant a little bit too close to their heart. I once forgot to declare a $4 souvenir glass from the Hard Rock Café in New York on my customs formon my way back to Toronto (Mind that they didn't have to find it in my bad, I actually corrected myself within 10 seconds) and the officer said "you can read, right? you have a university degree right? So why did you not read the rules?" and then threatened me that "the next time we could take your visa away". In fact, they can't. (because the Immigration legislation and the customs legislation are two completely separate things). So it's intimidation tactics. While Canada is not the US, "even in Canada" it's unfortunately also the case that depending on your country of origin/your ethnicity, border officers are much more vigilant to some people than to others. At least that is my impression.

What I am trying to say is: Don't think too much about this one incident that your wife had. I know this can be very disconcerning. It takes a while to shake it off, but in the end it was nothing but words.

Now to your actual questions:

1 - You have legal rights as a permanent resident that are thankfully not at the whim of the temper of an immigration officer. If you happen to have bad luck and get to one of the aggressive ones (which are still, IMHO, the clear minority of border officers), remain calm, do not react to their aggression and simply answer all questions truthfully. As long as you are above the 730, you did nothing wrong. Even in the case that you get reported you did nothing wrong. Until the hearing is happening, your life can go on as normal and at the hearing you provide the same proof. But again, don't think too much about the hearing yet, you shouldn't get reported in the first place. If it comes to a hearing they will then decide that you, in fact, fulfilled the residency obligation and therefore you are alright. This will not affect your citizenship application later on at all. Most importantly: No border officer has the power to take your PR status away on the spot. Also, a "report" is not something that in itself is bad on your file in the long run. Just like your neighbour reporting you to the police because he thinks you build

2 - generally speaking, the shorter you have been out of Canada the less "suspicious" you are. That does not mean that cutting it close to 730 is not a problem in that case. There is no "golden rule" to escape more probing questions by the border officer. Generally, the further away you are from the 730 threshold, the better. Generally, the shorter you've been out of Canada, the better. Generally, the more documentation you have, the better. But there is no strict rule as to when they will ask you questions.

In total, though, I would recommend not to overthink this too much. The vast majority of PRs crosses Canadian borders without any fuss. This forum might give you a different impression. But keep in mind that no one goes to an immigration forum and says "Today I crossed the border and nothing happened".

Thanks alot my canadavisa friend you really made it simple and your explanation is magnificent
god bless you

 

[Buletruck]

As Spyfy said, don't over think it. If you estimate the number of posts that actually pertain to having been reported or have an appeal or revolkation of their PR, you might (on a really good day) have 1,000 PR's a year this affects. That's less than 1/2 of 1% of all immigrants coming to Canada in a year. A much smaller percentage if you take that over several years. As stated, people write and rant about their bad experiences, not usually about non-events!

 

[sammy_engineer]

As Spyfy said, don't over think it. If you estimate the number of posts that actually pertain to having been reported or have an appeal or revolkation of their PR, you might (on a really good day) have 1,000 PR's a year this affects. That's less than 1/2 of 1% of all immigrants coming to Canada in a year. A much smaller percentage if you take that over several years. As stated, people write and rant about their bad experiences, not usually about non-events!

thanks bule truck , yes you are right