PR expiring soon and need to do urgent travel to India

[sharmausct]

Hello All,

I want to travel to India due to some urgent work ( Mid Jan 2020 and return in the first week on Feb 2020). The expiry on my PR card is 25 Feb 2020.

My timeline:

PR Card Expiry Date 25 Feb 2020.
I and my family landed on 15th Jan 2015 and became PR.
I will complete 747 days living in Canada on Jan 15, 2020.
My wife and two Kids will complete 733 days living in Canada 0n April 30, 2020.


I have a few options in mind and need your suggestions.

1. Apply for PR renewal on Jan 15 2020 and wait for my PR card to arrive and then travel to India

Pros:
1. No questions will be asked while returning to Canada as I will have a new PR card in hand
Cons:
1. If I apply before April 30, 2020, then my family will not be meeting RO of 730 days and that may attract CIC to look into my family case and can cause a problem for their PR renewal

2. I am not sure when I will get the PR card in hand. I may need to wait for a longer period and I can't wait for more than mid-Feb 2020


2. Apply for PR renewal on Jan 15, 2020, and travel immediately without waiting for PR card

Pros:
1. No waiting for the PR card and can travel as planned.
2. If I am stopped due to short expiry of my PR card then I can say that I have already applied for PR renewal

Cons:
1. If I apply before April 30, 2020, then my family will not be meeting RO of 730 days and that may attract CIC to look into my family case and can cause a problem for their PR renewal

3. Do not apply for PR renewal and travel after 15 Jan and return before my PR card expires.

Pros: No chances of my family PR obligation discovered by CIC

Cons: If I am stopped due to short expiry of my PR card then it may create a problem for me although I will be meeting RO obligations

 

[steaky]

4. Apply / Not apply for PR card renewal, travel immediately; if new PR card not received, get a PR travel document in India for returning to Canada

 

[Bs65]

The PR residency obligation is an individual responsibility and has nothing to do with the rest of your family.

They are responsible for meeting their own residency obligation so you applying to renew your card has no effect on them. They of course should not apply to renew until maybe at least July to ensure they have some extra buffer to minimise any chance of extra scrutiny.

As for your PR card renewal you are marginal on the residency obligation at 747 days Jan 15 2020 so should you apply then you could also be faced with some extra scrutiny, no way to predict, which could extend the published average process time so (1) probably not a good idea if you have to travel Jan/Feb.

There are pros/cons for both 2/3 so difficult here for any one to recommend one or the other as really comes down to the one that you feel most comfortable with. With either option you will have a valid card for travel , all that the airline/CBSA need to see. With either option still only 747 days accrued, but still have met the RO albeit only by 17 days which may result in extra scrutiny for the renewal given that will be obvious in the application..

At least with option 2 you can say to CBSA you have applied to renew although have no idea other than your word whether CBSA would have access to see your renewal at all. As always though only answer questions asked by CBSA do not volunteer extra information such as the renewal fact unless asked.

Main thing is though to travel whilst the PR card is still valid given applying for a PRTD can be a hassle and given you are just marginal on the RO could bring scrutiny/delay you may not want whilst outside of the country.

Above my view only others may agree/disagree, although as said ultmately decision is yours which you feel most comfortable with. At least with option (2) you will have a renewal in process should your return be delayed beyond your current card expiry and assuming approval worst case have it sent by courier.

 

[canuck78]

Will you no longer meet your RO if you go away for few weeks since you are so close to the 730 days. When you return to Canada will you have been in Canada for 730 days in the past 5 years?

 

[canuck78]

Will you no longer meet your RO if you go away for few weeks since you are so close to the 730 days. When you return to Canada will you have been in Canada for 730 days in the past 5 years?

 

[dpenabill]

With either option you will have a valid card for travel , all that the airline/CBSA need to see. With either option still only 747 days accrued, but still have met the RO albeit only by 17 days which may result in extra scrutiny for the renewal given that will be obvious in the application..

At least with option 2 you can say to CBSA you have applied to renew although have no idea other than your word whether CBSA would have access to see your renewal at all. As always though only answer questions asked by CBSA do not volunteer extra information such as the renewal fact unless asked.

Main thing is though to travel whilst the PR card is still valid given applying for a PRTD can be a hassle and given you are just marginal on the RO could bring scrutiny/delay you may not want whilst outside of the country.

I have addressed the primary query in another topic where it was posed. This post is mostly for clarification, mostly to emphasize that, for purposes of upcoming travel abroad, other than needing a valid PR card to board a flight headed back to Canada, the PR card and related matters (validity dates, whether there is a pending application, and such) are NOT much relevant.


EXPLANATION/CLARIFICATION:

I largely agree with most of the post, including the part quoted above. I emphatically agree with a couple observations in the part quoted:

-- that having a valid PR card is all the airline needs to see (but not CBSA, not at the PoE anyway)
-- main thing is to travel while PR card is still valid (mostly to facilitate boarding a flight headed back to Canada)​

To be clear: a returning PR does NOT need to show CBSA a valid PR card at the PoE. An expired PR card will suffice to establish status, so long as identity is also established. Even just passport and CoPR will ordinarily be sufficient. And, actually just a passport should suffice but if that is all the PR has to show it may take some time for the PoE officials to verify status. Once status is verified the PR must be allowed to enter Canada . . . and will be allowed to enter Canada.

Which leads to the part of what is quoted that is at least somewhat off the mark:

"At least with option 2 you can say to CBSA you have applied to renew although have no idea other than your word whether CBSA would have access to see your renewal at all."​

There is no advantage, nothing particularly positive, about having made an application to renew the PR card. Border officers might ask and of course the PR should truthfully answer, but since the validity of the PR card is NOT relevant in calculating compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, it does NOT matter if the returning PR has a PRC application pending.

There may be a slight chance this comes up during the initial PIL examination and could influence whether that officer makes a referral to Secondary for the PR to be more closely examined, including as to PR RO compliance. There are, however, many other factors far more likely to determine whether there is a referral to Secondary or not. Once in Secondary, IF referred to Secondary, the dates of the PR card, and whether or not a PRC application has been made, will have near ZERO relevance.

That said, if a PRC application was made prior to leaving Canada, whether or not border officers will see this in their computers depends on whether the PRC application is in process. If the application has not been opened yet, not formally *received* as yet, there will be nothing in the PR's GCMS to show the PRC application has been made. If there has been AOR or any action otherwise taken on the PRC application, of course CBSA officers will readily see this in the PR's GCMS . . . IF they look for it. Since, again, the fact of applying for a new PRC is not relevant, there is little or no reason for border officials to look for or take note of this detail. (Note: similarly for PRs who have applied for citizenship and the application is "in process," meaning after AOR; probably not something border officials will ordinarily look for but if there is a Secondary examination it is very likely the officers will see this in the PR's GCMS . . . the border officers will FOR SURE be able to see it, the question is whether this is something they will take note of or consider.)

On the other hand, which is more about other PRs who have gone abroad while a PRC application is pending, it appears common for PRC applications referred to non-routine processing (be that Secondary Review or Local Office RO Review) that a flag or alert appears in GCMS, and especially if IRCC apprehends a potential RO compliance issue, which flag or alert will in effect advise or suggest border officials conduct a more thorough evaluation of the returning PR's RO compliance. Indeed, there are more than a few indications that some PRC applications are sitting still in SR, if and when IRCC perceives the PR to be abroad, with IRCC waiting to see if and when the PR attempts to return to Canada, and to expect there to be a formal RO compliance determination attendant that (be that in processing a PR TD application or attendant a referral to Secondary when a returning PR applies to enter Canada at a PoE).

EXCEPT for the cutting-it-so-close aspect of the query, there is some risk of overthinking things. In particular, if the PR is in compliance with the RO, including still in compliance the date the PR returns to Canada, a valid PR card gets the PR abroad the flight to Canada, and being in compliance with the RO gets the applicant into Canada without being Reported. No significant problems. Minimal risk.

The cutting-it-so-close aspect of the query, though, brings up the precise question posed by @canuck78 :

"When you return to Canada will you have been in Canada for 730 days in the past 5 years?"​

That's the real question. That is what mostly matters. If yes, if the PR has been in Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years (as of THAT DAY of course, the day the PR arrives back in Canada), the worst case scenario should be no worse than having to answer some questions about actual time IN Canada, which the PR should be prepared to detail with some specificity.

When to apply for a new PR card and related questions are separate and apart. Largely a matter of personal judgment and depending significantly on other factors. Waiting a little longer may reduce the risk of non-routine processing. But how clearly and well-settled IN Canada the PR is NOW will likely be the far more influential factor in whether or not there is non-routine processing and some delay in being issued a new PR card.