PR-Child-Residency Violation-Want to Go Back Soon

[scylla]

Montreal is certainly cheaper than Toronto. I would say it depends how important the IR bit is to you. U of T is without question the top school for that in Canada - and certainly quite a bit ahead of McGill.

 

[USCAN1111]

Montreal is certainly cheaper than Toronto. I would say it depends how important the IR bit is to you. U of T is without question the top school for that in Canada - and certainly quite a bit ahead of McGill.

@scylla Thanks a ton for the advice. I really appreciate it.

 

[Rob_TO]

Get the PRTD under H&C. It's a no brainer.

Not actually a no brainer (like I used to think), but definitely good odds. Those processing the PR TD apps through have discretion to approve or deny even in this type of H&C case for removed as a minor.

See very recent canlii case for an 18 year old applying under this H&C claim, that went to appeals and was still rejected. Not sure if this is a sign of things to come for future H&C claims like this, or if it's just a 1-off case.
https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/2017/2017canlii23068/2017canlii23068.html

Some key notes:
While I am mindful of the fact that the appellant was a minor during the residency period that was assessed and he did not choose to breach his residency obligation, it is nevertheless a negative factor in his appeal that he has spent very little time in Canada. The appellant’s counsel says that I must take into account that the appellant was a minor and I should not punish the appellant for a choice that was not his own. However, the relevant issue is whether or not the appellant would suffer such hardship should his permanent residence be lost that he warrants special relief. In general terms, a permanent resident has spent close to two year physically in Canada over a given residency period will suffer greater hardship in losing his permanent residence than someone such as the appellant who has spent three weeks in Canada in the past six years. Accordingly, I find that the appellant’s extremely limited time in Canada is a negative factor in his appeal.

 

[scylla]

Hmmm - that's interesting! Just goes to show that nothing is ever guaranteed...

 

[canuck78]

Thought about a bit more and would actually suggest U of T for grad school. McGill is still a great school and the cost of living and tuition will be probably be half of what you would pay in Toronto. Also think McGill has more of a fun typical university experience and you have a friend there. Witn PS/IR the goal is really to get into a good grad school.

 

[canuck78]

Not actually a no brainer (like I used to think), but definitely good odds. Those processing the PR TD apps through have discretion to approve or deny even in this type of H&C case for removed as a minor.

See very recent canlii case for an 18 year old applying under this H&C claim, that went to appeals and was still rejected. Not sure if this is a sign of things to come for future H&C claims like this, or if it's just a 1-off case.
https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/2017/2017canlii23068/2017canlii23068.html

Some key notes:
While I am mindful of the fact that the appellant was a minor during the residency period that was assessed and he did not choose to breach his residency obligation, it is nevertheless a negative factor in his appeal that he has spent very little time in Canada. The appellant’s counsel says that I must take into account that the appellant was a minor and I should not punish the appellant for a choice that was not his own. However, the relevant issue is whether or not the appellant would suffer such hardship should his permanent residence be lost that he warrants special relief. In general terms, a permanent resident has spent close to two year physically in Canada over a given residency period will suffer greater hardship in losing his permanent residence than someone such as the appellant who has spent three weeks in Canada in the past six years. Accordingly, I find that the appellant’s extremely limited time in Canada is a negative factor in his appeal.

Think this is fair. Have seen some recent cases on this forum where minor only stayed for a couple of months over 5 years ago and was planning to apply for prtd. The father had only spent 2 months in Canada and gave up on finding work in Canada and the mother and children returned for another 2 months to have a child in Canada. The minor doesn't have any real ties to Canada. It seems like this has become a more well known way of getting PR for your children.

 

[USCAN1111]

Not actually a no brainer (like I used to think), but definitely good odds. Those processing the PR TD apps through have discretion to approve or deny even in this type of H&C case for removed as a minor.

See very recent canlii case for an 18 year old applying under this H&C claim, that went to appeals and was still rejected. Not sure if this is a sign of things to come for future H&C claims like this, or if it's just a 1-off case.
https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/2017/2017canlii23068/2017canlii23068.html

Some key notes:
While I am mindful of the fact that the appellant was a minor during the residency period that was assessed and he did not choose to breach his residency obligation, it is nevertheless a negative factor in his appeal that he has spent very little time in Canada. The appellant’s counsel says that I must take into account that the appellant was a minor and I should not punish the appellant for a choice that was not his own. However, the relevant issue is whether or not the appellant would suffer such hardship should his permanent residence be lost that he warrants special relief. In general terms, a permanent resident has spent close to two year physically in Canada over a given residency period will suffer greater hardship in losing his permanent residence than someone such as the appellant who has spent three weeks in Canada in the past six years. Accordingly, I find that the appellant’s extremely limited time in Canada is a negative factor in his appeal.

So I'm a little confused. I read the link and I most definitely don't want to end up in that kid's position.

@Rob_TO What course of action do you recommend I take? If it has any relevance I live in Buffalo and my friend will probably use one of the Buffalo area crossings like Peace Bridge or Niagara bridge.

 

[canuck78]

So I'm a little confused. I read the link and I most definitely don't want to end up in that kid's position.

@Rob_TO What course of action do you recommend I take? If it has any relevance I live in Buffalo and my friend will probably use one of the Buffalo area crossings like Peace Bridge or Niagara bridge.

It is basically out of your hands unless you cross the border and are not reported.

 

[USCAN1111]

It is basically out of your hands unless you cross the border and are not reported.

Could you please elaborate a little?

 

[canuck78]

Could you please elaborate a little?

You can't change how long you spent in Canada and how long it has been since you left. That was the basis of the ruling mentioned by RobTO.

 

[USCAN1111]

You can't change how long you spent in Canada and how long it has been since you left. That was the basis of the ruling mentioned by RobTO.

@canuck78 @scylla @Rob_TO

Unfortunately I cannot. I hope I don't turn out like that person.

I infer from Rob_TO's post that that case was related to a PRTD application. He seemed to have a good reason for being outside Canada, so it seems there may be some officials who go on power trips and may reject it.

What actual benefits do I get from a PRTD other than having a smooth border crossing? I read online that the PRTD is also needed to get on "commercial transport" to Canada but I don't think this really applies to me since I live in Buffalo and either way I am going in my friend's car.

 

[scylla]

You can enter Canada by commercial transit (plan, bus, train) with a PRTD.

 

[meyakanor]

If you go the land border route,manage to get in without getting reported, and want to avoid dealing with IRCC at all, you must be ready to stay in the country for two straight years (yes, without leaving at all, no matter what reason). Oh, and you will must never renew your P card before 731 days in the country uninterrupted. This won't be an issue in Ontario, but you may experience hardship in other provinces.


As a minor, I think we all agree that you have a good chance of winning an H&C case (with the usual caveat that NONE of us here is an expert), but as that case has shown, there is no guarantee, and you may still (and people did) lose a case which may have seemed a slam dunk at a first glance. The Midha vs. Canada case was an eye opening, not only for the minors affected, but also for parents who think that their children would just be forgiven for not meeting residency requirements.

 

[USCAN1111]

If you go the land border route,manage to get in without getting reported, and want to avoid dealing with IRCC at all, you must be ready to stay in the country for two straight years (yes, without leaving at all, no matter what reason).

@meyakanor
Why do they have different rules for people who go by land? Would you recommend I fly?

 

[meyakanor]

It's not the matter of whether you come in by land or air, but whether or not you have been granted PRTD.

If you come in AFTER being granted PRTD, it means that they have considered any H&C reasons surrounding your circumstances, and have decided that you should keep your PR. Based on that, you can renew your PR card immediately, and it should be approved. But applying for PRTD has risks, as illustrated by the Midha vs. Canada case.

However, if you come in unreported by land, once you apply for PR card renewal, they will know that you have been in breach of RO, and would commence the H&C consideration there.

So if you come in by land, and they do not report you, you have two choices:
1. Apply for PR card renewal, flag IRCC that you have been in breach of residency obligation, then hope they will forgive your breach (due to you being a minor and coming back on first opportunity; no guarantee)
2. Just lay low for 731 days, do not leave the country, do not engage with IRCC, and (it goes without saying) do not get charged or convicted of any crime, then you would be guaranteed (assuming no rule change) to be able to renew after 731 days of uninterrupted stay in Canada