Plan to Appeal SOWP 2nd Refusal

[jddd]

What makes the decision valid? Simply because I applied alone at first? spouses of students from India and China are granted sowp by the bucket, even though their spouses were their 'anchors' when they were granted the study permits. I am doing a thesis study and cannot find the time to travel home - should they not be compassionate enough to grant them even a visit visa? Why would someone with perfect immigration records want to spoil it by overstaying here? My spouse has no intention to even work in Canada! Its because of this lack of compassion that emboldens the officers to be unfair in reaching decisions, especially for people in certain countries. hundreds are crossing the borders illegally and the Canadian government grants them work permits and takes forever to hear their cases. Yet people are seeking legal ways to visit the country and are being denied. No wonder illegal crossings keep increasing.

Granting an sowp or a visitor visa should be on the strength of the eligibility of the applicant as stated on the IRCC website but the officers can hardly defend their refusals and that is why the CAIPS notes are all generic and no help. Good luck to the unfair and un-compassionate Canada immigration system. If separating families is their specialty, then they should state that boldly on their website and scrap the SOWP program then if it is a 'bogus' program. It is called spousal open work permit meant for the spouses and families of international students and those on PGWP!!! Its for your family to join you for the duration of your legal stay in Canada - and that defeats all the argument about 'didnt you know you would be separated from your family?'. Lets call a spade a spade - I am sure you would talk differently if the shoe was on the other foot. Most people in Canada (even visa officers) are immigrants anyway but seem to forget that as soon as they become citizens.

If a family or someone overstays, is the Canadian government powerless to do something about it?

First, do not compare your situation with people from India and China or wherever else. Each person has a different profile.

The GCMS/CAIPS notes are generic and of no help? Do you already have your notes? I thought you had just applied for them?

As explained by khp, there is nothing unfair or un-compassionate because the program you chose to enter and attempt to get PR in (if that is your goal) is not designed for family reunification. The student visa allows the PERSON WANTING AND CHOOSING to study in Canada advance their career through a Canadian diploma/degree.

If the only rejection reason was for “family ties” then what you need to improve on is how to prove that your family MUST go back to your home country. I do not see any document in your list that proves that. Your husband can quit his job. Your kids paying school fees is negligible considering they can get free education in a Canadian elementary or high school. Your houses/apartments are investments whether you are in your home country or not.

I’ve had “the shoe on the other foot” in that I applied for my college aged children’s visitor visas and they were both denied. I applied because they did not want to be sponsored to Canada as PRs without first trying to see if they will like it here. They were rejected based on family ties as well and up to now, being young, single and fully dependent on me and my spouse, their ties are certainly stronger in Canada even though they truly have no desire YET to stay here. I am a PR but I also cannot be reunited with my children through a visitor’s visa because family reunification is not the INTENT of ANY temporary visa.

 

[blueivory]

First, do not compare your situation with people from India and China or wherever else. Each person has a different profile.

The GCMS/CAIPS notes are generic and of no help? Do you already have your notes? I thought you had just applied for them?

As explained by khp, there is nothing unfair or un-compassionate because the program you chose to enter and attempt to get PR in (if that is your goal) is not designed for family reunification. The student visa allows the PERSON WANTING AND CHOOSING to study in Canada advance their career through a Canadian diploma/degree.

If the only rejection reason was for “family ties” then what you need to improve on is how to prove that your family MUST go back to your home country. I do not see any document in your list that proves that. Your husband can quit his job. Your kids paying school fees is negligible considering they can get free education in a Canadian elementary or high school. Your houses/apartments are investments whether you are in your home country or not.

I’ve had “the shoe on the other foot” in that I applied for my college aged children’s visitor visas and they were both denied. I applied because they did not want to be sponsored to Canada as PRs without first trying to see if they will like it here. They were rejected based on family ties as well and up to now, being young, single and fully dependent on me and my spouse, their ties are certainly stronger in Canada even though they truly have no desire YET to stay here. I am a PR but I also cannot be reunited with my children through a visitor’s visa because family reunification is not the INTENT of ANY temporary visa.

So in your opinion, what is a strong 'tie' to home country if not job, properties, extended family, investments, owned businesses, involvement in community, professional and social organizations? I am very eager to learn this one PLEASE! I am sure there are a lot of people who would benefit from your answer. How can we PROVE we MUST go back?

Canada created a pathway to PR through the study permit route, I did not, and not everyone who comes to study intends to go the PR route or overstay. People who use it as a route to PR are not abusing the system, it is an actual route created by the Canadian Government. My family has good travel history with no violation of visas whatever in 2 other 1st world countries. If they are being denied based on the visa violation history of people from my country, why cant that be clearly stated on the refusal notes?

 

[blueivory]

Many people in Canada are immigrants, and all save for the Indigenous people are descended from immigrants, yes, but not all of them came in by abusing the student permit system. No one forgets that they too were immigrants - but many immigrants look at the immigration system and see scores of students abusing the system (paying for a visa, studying basket weaving, getting a PGWP, and then PR) and think about the work they had to put in to getting PR and citizenship their way, and want to make sure the system is not abused.

It is extremely expensive for the government to deport people, and involves sometimes decades of appeals - during which appellants can avail themselves of government assistance in some cases. Much cheaper to deny visas and fight appeals in court.

Visa officers have discretion. SOWPs are discretionary. You have to prove there was an error in law.

It is sad that you have this opinion of the study permit. Getting a study permit (issued by IRCC mind you for basket weaving like you say), getting a PGWP legally, working legally for one year and paying taxes, and then applying for PR is abusing the system? Just because someone else used a different route? Hmmmm

VOs may have discretion, but they can be proven to have been unfair and failed to consider the totality of the documents submitted in reaching a decision. Its not always about an error in law.

 

[k.h.p.]

It is sad that you have this opinion of the study permit. Getting a study permit (issued by IRCC mind you for basket weaving like you say), getting a PGWP legally, working legally for one year and paying taxes, and then applying for PR is abusing the system? Just because someone else used a different route? Hmmmm

VOs may have discretion, but they can be proven to have been unfair and failed to consider the totality of the documents submitted in reaching a decision. Its not always about an error in law.

Judicial review requires an error in law. Appeals can consider unfairness and consideration but judicial review requires an error.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Thank you. But despite the non-existent compassion, people are still successful at this. At least a judge does not have the blind reservations of a visa officer and can see things clearly without judging based on intentions they are imagining in their own minds.

Regardless of everything else, you really need to understand that a judicial review only looks for an error in the application of the law. There is no compassion in the process.

 

[jddd]

So in your opinion, what is a strong 'tie' to home country if not job, properties, extended family, investments, owned businesses, involvement in community, professional and social organizations? I am very eager to learn this one PLEASE! I am sure there are a lot of people who would benefit from your answer. How can we PROVE we MUST go back?

Canada created a pathway to PR through the study permit route, I did not, and not everyone who comes to study intends to go the PR route or overstay. People who use it as a route to PR are not abusing the system, it is an actual route created by the Canadian Government. My family has good travel history with no violation of visas whatever in 2 other 1st world countries. If they are being denied based on the visa violation history of people from my country, why cant that be clearly stated on the refusal notes?

Like I said, MY OWN CHILDREN have been DENIED tourist visas. My opinion on what a strong tie is? Children will be left in the home country. The spouse will be left in the home country. There is a business running that CANNOT be run if left for more than 2 weeks. There is an illness that MUST be taken care of in the home country. All of these, my children do not have. So how can you or others benefit from my answers when I myself am unable to get TRVs approved for my children? In the balance of probabilities, I find the decision of the visa officer logical. Do I like it? NO. But the onus is ON ME to prove they will not overstay and I HAVE NOT satisfied that. My children have travelled to the USA, Australia and the EU extensively with no violations either.

Your spouse going back to a job is NOT a must unless there is some weird contract that I don't know about where if he does not he can get criminally charged.

Your properties are not reasons for them to return, if they were then why will all of you leave these properties behind?

Extended family is not your core family. You do not have to go back to your home country for them. Extended family is NOT a spouse or child.

Investments? See properties. You do not need to go back to your home country for those. They will be investments no matter where you are.

Owned businesses? Does your spouse personally run them? If so, does he PHYSICALLY need to be in your home country to do so? No? Then the businesses being there won't matter if you have other people who CAN run them without you.

Involvement in community, professional and social organizations? If extended family is not a factor do you really think community will matter? What do you stand to lose by not being involved in those communities/organizations?

If you read my reply, I specifically said (if PR is your goal) so I never insinuated that it is what you wanted to do. Yes, the student permit CAN BE a path to PR, BUT, YOU as the person who researched this program and decided (AGAIN, if you are pursuing the PR path) that this is the best way for your to acquire PR should have:

1. APPLIED for ALL of your family together, if that is so important and if one visa is rejected, abandoned studying in Canada and chose a country who will give you all visas.
2. APPLY for a DIFFERENT path like express entry, PNP, etc.
3. PREPARED yourself for a lengthy separation from your family as everyone else who comes to Canada on a temporary visa should because you should know your family MAY never be able to visit you.

Good luck on your judicial review. I hope you get a really good lawyer to help you but agree with the others that there has been no error in law.

 

[k.h.p.]

Like I said, MY OWN CHILDREN have been DENIED tourist visas. My opinion on what a strong tie is? Children will be left in the home country. The spouse will be left in the home country. There is a business running that CANNOT be run if left for more than 2 weeks. There is an illness that MUST be taken care of in the home country. All of these, my children do not have. So how can you or others benefit from my answers when I myself am unable to get TRVs approved for my children? In the balance of probabilities, I find the decision of the visa officer logical. Do I like it? NO. But the onus is ON ME to prove they will not overstay and I HAVE NOT satisfied that. My children have travelled to the USA, Australia and the EU extensively with no violations either.

Your spouse going back to a job is NOT a must unless there is some weird contract that I don't know about where if he does not he can get criminally charged.

Your properties are not reasons for them to return, if they were then why will all of you leave these properties behind?

Extended family is not your core family. You do not have to go back to your home country for them. Extended family is NOT a spouse or child.

Investments? See properties. You do not need to go back to your home country for those. They will be investments no matter where you are.

Owned businesses? Does your spouse personally run them? If so, does he PHYSICALLY need to be in your home country to do so? No? Then the businesses being there won't matter if you have other people who CAN run them without you.

Involvement in community, professional and social organizations? If extended family is not a factor do you really think community will matter? What do you stand to lose by not being involved in those communities/organizations?

If you read my reply, I specifically said (if PR is your goal) so I never insinuated that it is what you wanted to do. Yes, the student permit CAN BE a path to PR, BUT, YOU as the person who researched this program and decided (AGAIN, if you are pursuing the PR path) that this is the best way for your to acquire PR should have:

1. APPLIED for ALL of your family together, if that is so important and if one visa is rejected, abandoned studying in Canada and chose a country who will give you all visas.
2. APPLY for a DIFFERENT path like express entry, PNP, etc.
3. PREPARED yourself for a lengthy separation from your family as everyone else who comes to Canada on a temporary visa should because you should know your family MAY never be able to visit you.

Good luck on your judicial review. I hope you get a really good lawyer to help you but agree with the others that there has been no error in law.

100%

 

[blueivory]

I would like to thank everyone who has made a contribution to this thread. Your contributions are appreciated and well accepted. I see the point with family ties being made, however in my first application, one of my children was left behind to continue schooling and it was denied. the GCMS notes raised issues with my spouse's employment plan being vague and economic incentives not to return home.Since I know other families from my country who have received SOWP with their entire families, I though the family ties was not a big deal. In the summer, my daughter alone applied for a visit visa and was denied for ties to home country (she is a minor and had one parent and 2 siblings back home to serve as ties); she also has good travel history. So its all so confusing.....

So I want to ask so I can plan ahead, would my graduation ceremony be a valid purpose of visit of for at least my spouse and one child to be granted a 10 day visa to attend the graduation, since 2 children are back home and spouse has job to return to?

Secondly, will the office have the same concern of family ties with a 3 year PGWP - can I then apply for spouse and 2 kids, with other kid and assets acting as ties? Or can 2 children apply and spouse and one child stay behind? Would that be feasible (just the children)?

I know the level of subjectivity is quite high - I know someone who even recently was approved for sowp with 5 children!! Kindly advise what I can do with regards to a TRV? I did not anticipate that the separation would be so hard for me.