Physical presence not enough! What to do?

[ichina]

Hi all,

I am seeking advice on how to deal with a difficult situation.

I submitted citizenship application at the end of 2017. Then I did not include all travel records in the package. For one there are many for another I was under immense pressure to complete other tasks at that time, including a significant family emergency. I assumed that the days should exceed the required in any way.

But I did not pass the interview since the office could not verify the travel records. She requested some additional files related to my travels.

Recently a letter arrived. In it, the officer listed the travel records she spotted (which are more than I originally reported) and stated that according to her calculation I only stayed in Canada for 1003 days. Thus, I failed to meet the requirements. She now requests an explanation regarding the discrepancy between her calculation and mine.

With the letter, I collected all the material possible regarding my travels and found that her calculation has some errors too. According to my new calculation, I stayed for 1030 days in Canada, which unfortunately still falls below the requirement.

In this case, how should I draft the response letter? Is there still a chance to argue for an exception?

Many thanks for your help!

 

[vzoo]

I do not think they will make an exception.
My personal opinion is that the best strategy would be to get a soft landing to withdraw this application, and make your mistake sound unavoidable at the time.

 

[itsmyid]

Hi all,

I am seeking advice on how to deal with a difficult situation.

I submitted citizenship application at the end of 2017. Then I did not include all travel records in the package. For one there are many for another I was under immense pressure to complete other tasks at that time, including a significant family emergency. I assumed that the days should exceed the required in any way.

But I did not pass the interview since the office could not verify the travel records. She requested some additional files related to my travels.

Recently a letter arrived. In it, the officer listed the travel records she spotted (which are more than I originally reported) and stated that according to her calculation I only stayed in Canada for 1003 days. Thus, I failed to meet the requirements. She now requests an explanation regarding the discrepancy between her calculation and mine.

With the letter, I collected all the material possible regarding my travels and found that her calculation has some errors too. According to my new calculation, I stayed for 1030 days in Canada, which unfortunately still falls below the requirement.

In this case, how should I draft the response letter? Is there still a chance to argue for an exception?

Many thanks for your help!

If you don’t have enough days then you don’t have enough days . What’s there to argue about? If this can be argued then what’s the point of having that 3-year rule?

 

[21Goose]

Withdraw and reapply after four months to make sure you have the correct number of days.

 

[Copingwithlife]

Hi all,

I am seeking advice on how to deal with a difficult situation.

I submitted citizenship application at the end of 2017. Then I did not include all travel records in the package. For one there are many for another I was under immense pressure to complete other tasks at that time, including a significant family emergency. I assumed that the days should exceed the required in any way.

But I did not pass the interview since the office could not verify the travel records. She requested some additional files related to my travels.

Recently a letter arrived. In it, the officer listed the travel records she spotted (which are more than I originally reported) and stated that according to her calculation I only stayed in Canada for 1003 days. Thus, I failed to meet the requirements. She now requests an explanation regarding the discrepancy between her calculation and mine.

With the letter, I collected all the material possible regarding my travels and found that her calculation has some errors too. According to my new calculation, I stayed for 1030 days in Canada, which unfortunately still falls below the requirement.

In this case, how should I draft the response letter? Is there still a chance to argue for an exception?

Many thanks for your help!

An exception for what ? It is black and white, you either qualify or you don't. If they make an exception for you, which won't happen, then what about the next person who is short ?

 

[Joshua1]

I think you should actually be grateful that the officer has been lenient so far, because some could consider this to be “misrepresentation” whether it was intentional or not.

As others have said, withdraw and reapply since you have no proof of enough days.

 

[nov1061]

Hi all,

I am seeking advice on how to deal with a difficult situation.

I submitted citizenship application at the end of 2017. Then I did not include all travel records in the package. For one there are many for another I was under immense pressure to complete other tasks at that time, including a significant family emergency. I assumed that the days should exceed the required in any way.

But I did not pass the interview since the office could not verify the travel records. She requested some additional files related to my travels.

Recently a letter arrived. In it, the officer listed the travel records she spotted (which are more than I originally reported) and stated that according to her calculation I only stayed in Canada for 1003 days. Thus, I failed to meet the requirements. She now requests an explanation regarding the discrepancy between her calculation and mine.

With the letter, I collected all the material possible regarding my travels and found that her calculation has some errors too. According to my new calculation, I stayed for 1030 days in Canada, which unfortunately still falls below the requirement.

In this case, how should I draft the response letter? Is there still a chance to argue for an exception?

Many thanks for your help!

Hi,
write an explanation letter where you can include your calculations apologize and hope the agent will not take your mistake as a misrepresentation. If the agent is going to be satisfied with your explanation withdraw and apply again in case you have required number of days spent in Canada. There's no exception.

 

[dpenabill]

Hi all,

I am seeking advice on how to deal with a difficult situation.

I submitted citizenship application at the end of 2017. Then I did not include all travel records in the package. For one there are many for another I was under immense pressure to complete other tasks at that time, including a significant family emergency. I assumed that the days should exceed the required in any way.

But I did not pass the interview since the office could not verify the travel records. She requested some additional files related to my travels.

Recently a letter arrived. In it, the officer listed the travel records she spotted (which are more than I originally reported) and stated that according to her calculation I only stayed in Canada for 1003 days. Thus, I failed to meet the requirements. She now requests an explanation regarding the discrepancy between her calculation and mine.

With the letter, I collected all the material possible regarding my travels and found that her calculation has some errors too. According to my new calculation, I stayed for 1030 days in Canada, which unfortunately still falls below the requirement.

In this case, how should I draft the response letter? Is there still a chance to argue for an exception?

Many thanks for your help!

There is no doubt that this application will fail.

The open question, however, is whether the IRCC officials reviewing your case might apprehend a misrepresentation rather than honest error. Even if you attempt to withdraw the application. It is very difficult if not impossible to quantify the risk.

PERSONALLY I WOULD SPEND THE MONEY TO CONSULT WITH A LAWYER, one willing to review your application and the communications from IRCC and the revised presence calculations. BUT personally I could easily afford to do that.

How you approach this going forward is a very PERSONAL judgment call for YOU to make.

Withdrawing the application might work. But there is no guarantee of that.

The discrepancy is substantial, even according to your version of the facts. It is possible that despite a request to withdraw the application, IRCC could nonetheless proceed to conclude there was a material misrepresentation made and impose a five year prohibition.

Thus, it is probably better to respond to the request and in a cover letter explain how it is, or why, you made mistakes in your original presence calculation, and in effect either ask to withdraw the application in light of your mistakes, or ask if you should withdraw the application. (Do not go overboard in your explanation; keep it as simple as possible, as best you can specifically identify what errors you made and perhaps simply assert that these errors or omissions were oversights . . . that is, avoid falling into the one-doth-protest-too-much rut.)

Even if IRCC was NOT inclined to determine there was misrepresentation, in which event withdrawing the application would suffice, probably better to respond to the requests and submit such a cover letter anyway, since otherwise when you apply again, the next time IRCC could approach your next application with a lot more skepticism and that application would be at risk for non-routine processing that could cause a very long delay.

To be clear, withdrawing the application will not make it just disappear. And in any event, IRCC is likely to review at least some aspects of it in your future transactions with IRCC (including an application for a new PR card as well as any future citizenship application).

I do not want to cause excessive anxiety. Betting odds probably favour no serious problem beyond this application failing. That is, if you withdraw the application even without explanation, odds are good that will be OK (which is why some others are suggesting this).

But the odds are also very good playing Russian Roulette (five in six odds NO problem, no bullet to the head), and yet no sane person will even consider making that bet, even if, for example, they stood to make a lot of money on the bet.

No danger of a bullet to the head here . . . but you probably want to do your best to assure the interviewer and Citizenship Officer that you made a mistake, that you did not intend to make misrepresentations in your application.

Rarely hurts to play it safe.

(In large part this is the long way round to agreeing with the suggestion posted by @nov1061 )

 

[ichina]

There is no doubt that this application will fail.

The open question, however, is whether the IRCC officials reviewing your case might apprehend a misrepresentation rather than honest error. Even if you attempt to withdraw the application. It is very difficult if not impossible to quantify the risk.

PERSONALLY I WOULD SPEND THE MONEY TO CONSULT WITH A LAWYER, one willing to review your application and the communications from IRCC and the revised presence calculations. BUT personally I could easily afford to do that.

How you approach this going forward is a very PERSONAL judgment call for YOU to make.

Withdrawing the application might work. But there is no guarantee of that.

The discrepancy is substantial, even according to your version of the facts. It is possible that despite a request to withdraw the application, IRCC could nonetheless proceed to conclude there was a material misrepresentation made and impose a five year prohibition.

Thus, it is probably better to respond to the request and in a cover letter explain how it is, or why, you made mistakes in your original presence calculation, and in effect either ask to withdraw the application in light of your mistakes, or ask if you should withdraw the application. (Do not go overboard in your explanation; keep it as simple as possible, as best you can specifically identify what errors you made and perhaps simply assert that these errors or omissions were oversights . . . that is, avoid falling into the one-doth-protest-too-much rut.)

Even if IRCC was NOT inclined to determine there was misrepresentation, in which event withdrawing the application would suffice, probably better to respond to the requests and submit such a cover letter anyway, since otherwise when you apply again, the next time IRCC could approach your next application with a lot more skepticism and that application would be at risk for non-routine processing that could cause a very long delay.

To be clear, withdrawing the application will not make it just disappear. And in any event, IRCC is likely to review at least some aspects of it in your future transactions with IRCC (including an application for a new PR card as well as any future citizenship application).

I do not want to cause excessive anxiety. Betting odds probably favour no serious problem beyond this application failing. That is, if you withdraw the application even without explanation, odds are good that will be OK (which is why some others are suggesting this).

But the odds are also very good playing Russian Roulette (five in six odds NO problem, no bullet to the head), and yet no sane person will even consider making that bet, even if, for example, they stood to make a lot of money on the bet.

No danger of a bullet to the head here . . . but you probably want to do your best to assure the interviewer and Citizenship Officer that you made a mistake, that you did not intend to make misrepresentations in your application.

Rarely hurts to play it safe.

(In large part this is the long way round to agreeing with the suggestion posted by @nov1061 )

Many thanks for your detailed response. It seems that withdrawal is the only option....