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Physical Presence : Multiple Stamps In One Trip....

mikek27

Hero Member
Oct 15, 2014
346
26
Hi guys ,

last year i travelled to London uk for 2 weeks.
During those 2 weeks i also visited Ireland and Spain.
Therefore during those 2 week period, i had the following stamps:

- London Gatwick entry stamp
- Dublin Ireland entry stamp
- Spain Entry Stamp
- Spain Exit Stamp
- London Stansted Entry stamp
(I had to fly back to london's secondary airport to catch a flight back to Canada.)

In the physical presence calculator , i specified destination as "London,UK" and from-to as 2 weeks.
Then in description, I described where I went.

During the interview, will the officer think that those extra stamps mean that i've omitted or missed mentioning several trips in my calculator ?
 

Seym

Champion Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,505
735
F course, no one knows in advance what will happen to a particular applicant in a particular day, but the officer has every reason to think exactly what you wrote and nothing else.
If anything, those stamps will strengthen your claim that you've been to the countries you've written you've been to.
 

mikek27

Hero Member
Oct 15, 2014
346
26
F course, no one knows in advance what will happen to a particular applicant in a particular day, but the officer has every reason to think exactly what you wrote and nothing else.
If anything, those stamps will strengthen your claim that you've been to the countries you've written you've been to.

not sure what you meant here, did you mean that the officer will suspect that i've been out of canada more than I stated in the physical presence form ?
 

mikek27

Hero Member
Oct 15, 2014
346
26
I"m concerned about the fact that there are TWO (2) London entry stamps in the same trip ( within the start-finish date range specified, but on different dates and different airport).

Basically it went like:

Toronto ---> London-Gatwick---->Dublin,Ireland----->Spain---->London-Stansted------>Toronto
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,270
3,028
During the interview, will the officer think that those extra stamps mean that i've omitted or missed mentioning several trips in my calculator ?
Let's be clear: I am NO expert. BUT I am also NOT a psychic. NOT an oracle. And I know NO reliable psychics or oracles.

As @Seym observed, no one knows what a particular officer or processing agent will "think."

That said, sure, we can talk about and identify some of the inferences a processing agent or interviewer might make based on information in passport stamps. BUT there is little cause to overthink these things.

For the vast majority of QUALIFIED applicants who followed instructions and submitted accurate information (in application and presence calculation), the interviewer's examination of the passport is cursory, little more than scanning the passport pages to see if anything jumps out as inconsistent or incongruous. That is, as long as the applicant has entered all the appropriate information accurately, the interviewer is NOT likely to pay much attention to individual passport stamps.

After all, the key information a passport stamp reveals is NOT complicated: it evidences or documents that the passport holder was in a particular country on a particular date, usually entering or leaving. That can be easily compared to the information in the citizenship applicant's presence calculation.

Is the date on the stamp consistent with the dates the applicant reported being outside Canada?​

Is the country one the applicant listed in the presence calculation (remembering that the applicant lists the primary destination in the box for that and lists other countries in the box for information about the purpose of the trip)?​

Main thing is that there are NO stamps showing an event outside Canada on a date the applicant's presence calculation says the applicant was IN Canada.

If the date and country "check," so to say, there should be little or NO reason a processing agent to be concerned about the stamp or to question it any further, since it is consistent with what the applicant's presence calculation shows . . .
. . . that is, UNLESS there is some other reason to have concerns or questions about the applicant's accounting of trips abroad. In the latter event, sure, whether it is an entry stamp or an exit stamp, among other details, perhaps even the sequence, might be more closely scrutinized, but that is going to be far more driven and focused by whatever raises that concern.

Passport stamps have been the object of much overthinking over the years. They are less and less important these days. Nonetheless, they are still important in the sense that whatever information there is in passport stamps should be consistent with the applicant's information, including declarations as to visas or permits in other countries, and as to dates outside Canada.
 

k300k3

Hero Member
Mar 6, 2019
282
55
I had the same situation. I filled out all trips in the physical presence calculator. For example ,

June 1st to July 8th .. country A ;
July 8th to July 14th .. country B ;
July 15th to July 21st .. country C;
July 22nd to July 28th .. country A;
so on and on. My application was in September 2018.


As a result, when I turned in my application, physical presence calculator showed I had 1111 days. But when I got my ATIPs, Sydney Office détermined that i had only 1106 physical presence days which I believed it was probably due to overlapping days while putting data entry in the same trip. It looked like the Sydney office used the whole period out of Canada as one trip. I had no problem during the interview with entry/exit stamps.


Anyway, I got RQ lite CIT0520. But decision made 2 weeks ago.


Send the copies of entries/exits’ stamps along with the application.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,270
3,028
I had the same situation. I filled out all trips in the physical presence calculator. For example ,

June 1st to July 8th .. country A ;
July 8th to July 14th .. country B ;
July 15th to July 21st .. country C;
July 22nd to July 28th .. country A;
so on and on. My application was in September 2018.


As a result, when I turned in my application, physical presence calculator showed I had 1111 days. But when I got my ATIPs, Sydney Office détermined that i had only 1106 physical presence days which I believed it was probably due to overlapping days while putting data entry in the same trip. It looked like the Sydney office used the whole period out of Canada as one trip. I had no problem during the interview with entry/exit stamps.


Anyway, I got RQ lite CIT0520. But decision made 2 weeks ago.


Send the copies of entries/exits’ stamps along with the application.
For @mikek27 there is NO reason to "Send the copies of entries/exits’ stamps along with the application." @mike27 should simply FOLLOW the INSTRUCTIONS and submit what the instructions specify to submit.

Moreover, there is NO indication that @mikek27's situation or circumstances are comparable, let alone the same as yours.

And, nonetheless, it is highly unlikely that even in your situation, the fact of including "copies of entries/exits’ stamps along with the application," would have avoided being issued the CIT 0520. After all, you were not issued RQ-related requests until AFTER the interview.

What might have made the difference, and avoided CIT 0520, could have been waiting long enough to apply to have a real margin over the minimum (if practical; recognizing that for some waiting to apply does not always build a bigger margin or is otherwise not an option); that is, a bigger margin may have been your best chance of avoiding RQ-related non-routine processing. At least you applied with some margin, even if minimal, but enough to avoid falling below the minimum notwithstanding IRCC's questions about some of your days (and thus congratulations on reaching the Decision Made step).

I do not know that a bigger margin would have avoided CIT 0520 for you. My strong sense, however, is there are good odds it could have (as long as the discrepancy in the calculation was IRCC's mistake, not yours). How much of a margin to have is a very personal decision and there is no precise formula.

But many here tend to focus on a margin which will make sure they qualify even if they made mistakes. Which is important. In contrast, however, given how much focus there is on how long the process will take, for qualified applicants the size-of-margin question is more about having enough of a margin to make IRCC personnel comfortable about the presence calculation, confident enough the applicant met the requirements . . . not only even if the applicant made mistakes, but even if IRCC personnel make some mistakes. Which they sometimes do. That is, to apply with enough of a margin IRCC does not see a need to engage in RQ-related inquiries, and thus avoid delays.

But of course that is merely a would-have, could-have, perhaps should-have discussion, Monday morning quarterbacking. And now the finish line is in sight, Decision-Made, only harm was perhaps some inconvenience and a longer timeline. Now it is time to attend the oath and celebrate.

BUT along the way it is worth clearly distinguishing the quirks in your presence calculation from the @mikek27 stamp question.

The big difference is that you returned to Canada, or at least you submitted a presence calculation indicating you returned to Canada, for overnight some times, and on one occasion leaving Canada again the very same day you returned to Canada. That's unusual (except for some individuals traveling back and forth to the U.S. regularly, which is yet an entirely different scenario . . . in contrast you reference trips to at least three different countries, A, B, and C, so obviously at least two others not the U.S.).

For @mikek27 the UK entry stamp raising concern is about returning to the UK during a trip abroad, arriving in the UK a second time during one trip, and arriving from some other country. This is very common, at least for travel into and out of countries still routinely stamping passports (many are not). There is no reason for IRCC to be the least confused. Example: say PR took approximately 2 week trip abroad. In the From date PR enters July 3, 2018; in the To date, the PR enters July 19, 2018. PR lists destination as London, UK. In the reasons box PR enters "also visited Ireland and Spain." As long as all the passport stamps for these countries are dated between July 3 and July 19, this not only makes sense and amply confirms what the PR reported in the presence calculation, but this is precisely how the instructions say to report such travel. There really is NO reason for @mikek27 to be at all worried about how the interviewer will perceive these stamps.

I am assuming your example is indeed merely an example, not actual dates. But the key quirky aspect of your example is that these trips are back to back. One indicating you left Canada the very same day you returned to Canada:
June 1st to July 8th .. country A ;
July 8th to July 14th .. country B ;
July 15th to July 21st .. country C;
July 22nd to July 28th .. country A;

Since you return to Canada in-between each of these trips, you are entitled to credit for the days during which you spent even just part of a day in Canada. So yes, July 8th counts as a day in Canada, and likewise July 14th and 15th, and July 21st and July 22nd.

Why IRCC might have made an error regarding these five days I cannot guess; how IRCC concluded, for whatever reason, you did not actually return to Canada those days, I cannot say. Perhaps your CBSA entry history failed to record your entry into Canada July 8, 14, and 15.

In any event, it is easy enough to see that this travel pattern is rather unusual, and given the rather small margin over the minimum you applied with, it is not surprising there were RQ-related questions.

Of course I wonder if it was you who made a mistake and just reported separate trips from one country to another as separate trips From Canada, as if you were returning to Canada in-between the trips to the other countries when you did not actually return to Canada. If that was what happened, that means you really were claiming credit for five days you were not actually IN Canada, and with a margin of barely more than two weeks, yeah no surprise at all there would be RQ-related requests in order to verify your physical presence.

Either way, that is a totally different scenario than @mikek27 . . .
 
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jc94

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2016
830
163
What you have done sounds just fine to me and exactly what I did.

In my personal case I had a trip that involved travel to three countries. I listed the entire dates I was out from the date I left Canada to the date I returned. In Destination I put in the first country I entered (went through immigration in) as per the instructions. In reason I gave clear details on where I went, what route I took, and then some extra details because on the return date from this trip I then did a US entry and exit to obtain my PR.

Another trip I took had a strange routing so again did the same. I flew Canada->USA->Canada->Country X via Country Y on the same day because my USA outbound flight was missed and they re-routed me back through Canada and a country I had no intention to visit. So I listed this in the reason. When I say listed I just listed the routing, not details.

This sounds almost identical to what you have done.

Now, while I personally had no issues I did prepare for the interview by having a complete list of travel (spreadsheet style) listing every single actual trip I took including when I went from country A to B to C and back to A etc... in great detail. This includes transit travel (Australia in my case) where I went through immigration and therefore have a stamp. I had compiled this for my PR and just kept it up to date.

Ahead of interview, I added a Passport column and added the details of every single stamp or visa.
ie: "Page 17" (for just stamps), or "Page 15, Visa Page 16", or where I had Canadian stamps as well "Page 3 (Country X), Page 17 (Canada)".

I then printed out many itineraries for my trips. Was this needed for me? No. Would it be needed for others - quite possibly. It wasn't my idea, someone on here had done something similar and it made their interview a lot easier so I read. Generally speaking the more you have prepared should it be requested the better. But don't provide more than they ask for until or indeed if they ask.
 

Canireian

Full Member
Jan 3, 2019
33
0
My two cents - where I had a situation like this, I included a separate piece of paper which I included in the citizenship application explaining each trip in a little more detail. As my original passport is European and the places I had travelled to were also in the EU, I did not have any extra stamps on my passport but thought it better to be absolutely clear about where I was on various trips.

I had no questions about this at my recent post-test interview and it all went fine. Similarly, I had to apply for a PRTD (permanent resident travel document) and took a similar approach, my document/visa was issued with no queries.

My recent PR card renewal, I had to use the "time spent outside Canada with a Canadian citizen" condition so I provided flight bookings that showed that me and my husband (CA citizen) were on the same booking, a few photos of us together during those times (not really verifiable as no date information on them but I figured it couldn't hurt!) as well as his passports (required) and my own.

Hope this helps.