Parents visa refused - on unreasonable grounds

[ortom]

My parents applied for a TRV in May '13 and in June '13 their application was returned back with no visa in their passports. I was shocked to hear that as my mother owns a business for over 20 years (proof from the appropriate office in my country included), my father is self-employed and they included proof for 3 of the properties that they own (in my father's name, which makes my mother an owner too), a bank account with about 50K in it. My mother travels every single month for business ( which is evident from looking at her passport and the schedule 1 form where all her travel dates are included), my father has some travel history too outside of the country. At the same time my brother lives with my parents (same address provided on the forms), my moms parents are in the home country, her siblings, my fathers siblings etc. I provided them with a letter of invitation stating they would be responsible for the cost of their trip etc. provided T4, notice off assessment etc. All this ties to their home country and their visa was refused.
The refusal letter stated that the VO was not satisfied that they would live canada at the end of their stay:
The reason why he came to this conclusion was the family ties to canada (me), which i don't understand as my brother is there so they wouldnt necessarily decide to live in canada
Their second reason was their financial assets and property. I mean 50k in the bank and 3 properties should be enough assets, one would think.
The third reason was the proposed length of stay. almost 1 month I had written in the application form. How long are they supposed to stay in order to not trigger any doubts on the true purpose of their visit, for the VO?
Can someone please tell me what should we do different the next time they apply?
They applied through the Rome embassy, which has a reputation for returning visitors visas. Would calling the Rome embassy help their case at all?

 

[Pippin]

Get the GCMS notes immediately. You might find some answers there. So sorry about this unexpected disappointment and hope you can find a way to make it all work out.

 

[ortom]

What is GCMS notes? They sent two letters with the application, one for my mom and one for my dad, stating the reason of refusal. Is that what GCMS notes is?

Get the GCMS notes immediately. You might find some answers there. So sorry about this unexpected disappointment and hope you can find a way to make it all work out.

 

[amikety]

Start here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/atip/requests-atip.asp

GCMS notes are your parents' case notes. They will give you an in-depth look at the reasons your case was rejected.

What you got in the mail is a generic letter and can mean several things. For instance, travel history can mean not enough or too much.

It sounds like they sent good proof of ties, so you'll need the notes to understand what to do next.

Calling the embassy would be a waste of time. For one, they won't give you information on someone else's file (even if its your parents). Second, they generally do not provide information on cases over the phone. The person who answers the phone has nothing to do with immigration, doesn't have access to your file, doesn't know which officer handled your file, and as a rule, will not connect you to that person unless the IO has requested to speak with you.

 

[user828]

Most GCMS notes for visitor doesnt really tell much. Your case looks good but sometimes its plain bad luck. Change the invite letter, shorten duration, add some more assets, try again in 1 month

 

[ortom]

Thanks. I will look into that, it seems like they need a consent letter from my parents in order to provide me with info, which I'll have to get and pray that they approve their visa next time, as I don't wanna see my parents once in a blue moon.

Start here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/atip/requests-atip.asp

GCMS notes are your parents' case notes. They will give you an in-depth look at the reasons your case was rejected.

What you got in the mail is a generic letter and can mean several things. For instance, travel history can mean not enough or too much.

It sounds like they sent good proof of ties, so you'll need the notes to understand what to do next.

Calling the embassy would be a waste of time. For one, they won't give you information on someone else's file (even if its your parents). Second, they generally do not provide information on cases over the phone. The person who answers the phone has nothing to do with immigration, doesn't have access to your file, doesn't know which officer handled your file, and as a rule, will not connect you to that person unless the IO has requested to speak with you.

 

[amikety]

Thanks. I will look into that, it seems like they need a consent letter from my parents in order to provide me with info, which I'll have to get and pray that they approve their visa next time, as I don't wanna see my parents once in a blue moon.

This is a little off topic, but can you get a SuperVisa? I've heard the SuperVisa is more likely to be approved. If you're able, you should look into it.

 

[SenoritaBella]

Agree that the GCMS notes for visitor doesn't say much.
1. No point in shortening the duration - doesn't make sense that parents will travel miles just to stay for a week or two. Instead, the OP should be specific about duration e.g. "4 weeks from Aug 1st to Aug 31st" instead of "almost one month".
2. financial assets - this one is strange but nothing is surprising with VOs. You say they had 50K in their account. Are the businesses doing well financially? Did they provide enough documentation to show the source of the funds in their account and that it's coming from the businesses?
3. family ties - is your brother young and dependent on your parents mostly?

 

[Pippin]

GCMS notes will take about 30+ days and cost you $5 plus a bit of effort getting the request submitted so it isn't much of a gamble. In a situation where the negative outcome defies logic it is worth getting any additional information before reapplying. In cases where things seem REALLY odd, it may be worthwhile to ask for the PHYSICAL FILE which allows you to see the actual pages the VO reviewed and confirm that all documents were received as submitted.

 

[ortom]

This is a little off topic, but can you get a SuperVisa? I've heard the SuperVisa is more likely to be approved. If you're able, you should look into it.

Well im on pgwp myself so I cannot apply for a supervisa for them. Unless they will accept the invitation from husband who is a citizen?

 

[amikety]

Well im on pgwp myself so I cannot apply for a supervisa for them. Unless they will accept the invitation from husband who is a citizen?

No, not for Supervisa unfortunately.

I would order the notes, as suggested. That's the best way to go right now.

 

[ortom]

Agree that the GCMS notes for visitor doesn't say much.
1. No point in shortening the duration - doesn't make sense that parents will travel miles just to stay for a week or two. Instead, the OP should be specific about duration e.g. "4 weeks from Aug 1st to Aug 31st" instead of "almost one month".
2. financial assets - this one is strange but nothing is surprising with VOs. You say they had 50K in their account. Are the businesses doing well financially? Did they provide enough documentation to show the source of the funds in their account and that it's coming from the businesses?
3. family ties - is your brother young and dependent on your parents mostly?

Well my brother is 27, but still lives at home (as is the custom in my country), he is somewhat dependent on my parents financially even though he works a professional job.
As to financial assets, after reviewing the paperwork that they had submitted, basically property deeds and bank statements I found a few mistakes on the english translations from the notary office. As is the case in my country everyone thinks they know english but they just use a dictionary to translate legal documents which can lead to mistakes. I partially blamed their decisions on these mistakes (one of them was pretty huge), but after having my husband read them (who is born in Canada, therefore better english than me), he said that they should be able to get the general idea from the papers even though there is mistakes.
I don't think it was obvious that the money came from the business, but where else would it come from right? How can they prove this?
On the other hand the business has been running for so long that one would think that it is successful and the same time my mom travels every month for her business outside of the country, if it wasn't successful she wouldn't right?
I would think that some things are common sense and the VO should have some logic to make the connection.
Would it be better if the apply separate next time?

 

[steaky]

Would it be better if the apply separate next time?

Definitely. Originally my in-laws applied together for regular visit visas but was refused. After that, they applied separately (one by one) and got their visas.

 

[SenoritaBella]

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Well my brother is 27, but still lives at home (as is the custom in my country), he is somewhat dependent on my parents financially even though he works a professional job. Ok, he`s an adult, wouldn't help your parents much in terms of proving strong ties.
As to financial assets, after reviewing the paperwork that they had submitted, basically property deeds and bank statements I found a few mistakes on the english translations from the notary office. As is the case in my country everyone thinks they know english but they just use a dictionary to translate legal documents which can lead to mistakes. I partially blamed their decisions on these mistakes (one of them was pretty huge), but after having my husband read them (who is born in Canada, therefore better english than me), he said that they should be able to get the general idea from the papers even though there is mistakes. It is not easy translating documents because of the nuances in language or context. It`s good if they can still get the general idea from the documents.
I don't think it was obvious that the money came from the business, but where else would it come from right? How can they prove this? Well, people are known to have relatives deposit huge sums of money into their bank account for the purposes of obtaining bank statements, after which they return the money. It has to be clear to the officer that the money is yours. Therefore the bank statement of the business for the last 6 months or one year should show money coming in(deposits) and going out(debits). Also, the overall net worth of the business should be positive(i.e. assets greater than debts). Did they include tax documents for the business?
On the other hand the business has been running for so long that one would think that it is successful and the same time my mom travels every month for her business outside of the country, if it wasn't successful she wouldn't right? The officer can`t assume this, the applicant is expected to proof it.
I would think that some things are common sense and the VO should have some logic to make the connection. Don`t we all wish they would? I have learned not to rely on that, make is as plain for them as possible. Seriously, we could all work for CIC and be more efficient but gov`t jobs aren`t all they are cracked up to be. *shudders*
Would it be better if the apply separate next time?