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Only 1 year left in my PR card. Can I enter Canada?

aopisi

Newbie
Mar 28, 2020
5
0
Hey guys, have a question. My PR card expires Apr 2025 and I would like to relocate to Canada for a job early Jun 2024.
The card was issued Jan 2020.
I just read some posts on RO and surely I can't meet it by Apr 2025. I can stay put in Canada from Jun 2024 to Jun 2026 to meet RO. Is there any thing that could smooth my entry to Canada and stay there until I can qualify to renew PR card?
 

Naturgrl

VIP Member
Apr 5, 2020
39,709
8,168
Hey guys, have a question. My PR card expires Apr 2025 and I would like to relocate to Canada for a job early Jun 2024.
The card was issued Jan 2020.
I just read some posts on RO and surely I can't meet it by Apr 2025. I can stay put in Canada from Jun 2024 to Jun 2026 to meet RO. Is there any thing that could smooth my entry to Canada and stay there until I can qualify to renew PR card?
No issue. You can enter because you PR card is valid until next year.
 

Besram

Hero Member
Jun 13, 2019
202
116
I disagree that there won't be any issue for sure.

You are currently in breach of your residency obligation, assuming you haven't lived in Canada since the date you first landed sometime in 2019/2020. Note the landing date matters for the five-year count, not the date the card was issued.

It is true that you will be able to travel to Canada directly by airplane, and you will also be admitted into the country because you are still a PR (the latter is also true if you don't have a valid PR card, but the complication is that no airline will allow you to board, so you'd have to enter via the US border).

BUT: it is possible that you may be questioned about your RO, and since you are in breach, it is possible that you may be reported for this breach, which starts the process of revoking your PR. You can appeal, but that's obviously not a great situation when you are starting a new job.

Agree that you are at lower risk of this happening because you still have a valid card (how low is impossible to say), but people DO get reported with valid PR cards, and they DO lose their appeals.

Feel it's important for you to know if you are considering uprooting your life and moving to Canada in your position.
 
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aopisi

Newbie
Mar 28, 2020
5
0
Hey thank you, the information is useful. Have a couple more questions if you can help
- Which airport seems to be less risk of being reported, Toronto or Vancouver? In other words, should I fly to Toronto or Vancouver to minimize the risk?
- Would it help if I hire a lawyer to have an H&C report on hand on arrival?
- Also would it help if I prepare a lawyer ready in case of being reported? Or it is fine to find lawyer depend on the outcome?

I disagree that there won't be any issue for sure.

You are currently in breach of your residency obligation, assuming you haven't lived in Canada since the date you first landed sometime in 2019/2020. Note the landing date matters for the five-year count, not the date the card was issued.

It is true that you will be able to travel to Canada directly by airplane, and you will also be admitted into the country because you are still a PR (the latter is also true if you don't have a valid PR card, but the complication is that no airline will allow you to board, so you'd have to enter via the US border).

BUT: it is possible that you may be questioned about your RO, and since you are in breach, it is possible that you may be reported for this breach, which starts the process of revoking your PR. You can appeal, but that's obviously not a great situation when you are starting a new job.

Agree that you are at lower risk of this happening because you still have a valid card (how low is impossible to say), but people DO get reported with valid PR cards, and they DO lose their appeals.

Feel it's important for you to know if you are considering uprooting your life and moving to Canada in your position.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
15,466
7,876
Hey thank you, the information is useful. Have a couple more questions if you can help
- Which airport seems to be less risk of being reported, Toronto or Vancouver? In other words, should I fly to Toronto or Vancouver to minimize the risk?
- Would it help if I hire a lawyer to have an H&C report on hand on arrival?
- Also would it help if I prepare a lawyer ready in case of being reported? Or it is fine to find lawyer depend on the outcome?
The airport likely makes no difference, or at least not in any consistent way that anyone can say. If you could arriving by land border (ie through USA) that would improve your chances.

Note: while I echo @Besram's point that it is possible at any time to have an issue, that doesn't mean the chances are high. I honestly don't know - and I think no-one does. There is a probability, let's say 'medium', whatever that means, that you'll get waved through with a verbal warning about watching your RO.

I personally don't think hiring a lawyer in advance will help all that much. What can help is having it straight in your head what your H&C claim consists of (i.e. the answer to 'why are you out of compliance'), and some information on paper with you to support your point. (note that fairly likely they won't look at it, or only glance at the fact that you have some documents that seem to support your claim, but having it is still a very good idea).

If you are reported at that point, you will have 30 days (or perhaps 60?) to file an appeal and in my opinion time to hire a lawyer at that point.

Of course, a lawyer would most likely suggest you get consutlation and preps in advance, and at the margin, perhaps it would help - I'm making an estimation based on some cost-utility trade-off that is, ultimately, a guess. Perhaps they'd want a retainer for that, I don't know. YOu have to decide.

Note, the one thign we CAN say with some degree of certainty is that the sooner you return, the better. Analysis-paralysis can seriously harm your chances if as a result you delay by many months. Some preparation is good, indecision is not.
 

Besram

Hero Member
Jun 13, 2019
202
116
Hey thank you, the information is useful. Have a couple more questions if you can help
- Which airport seems to be less risk of being reported, Toronto or Vancouver? In other words, should I fly to Toronto or Vancouver to minimize the risk?
- Would it help if I hire a lawyer to have an H&C report on hand on arrival?
- Also would it help if I prepare a lawyer ready in case of being reported? Or it is fine to find lawyer depend on the outcome?
My take on these:

1) Does not matter - there is no data on this, and anecdotal evidence is useless.

2) Would recommend having a written document that outlines your H&C reasons as well as supporting evidence. This is something to present at secondary inspection only (not primary), and they will have to look at it because they need to consider any and all H&C reasons you bring forward. Your choice if you want to appoint a lawyer to do this. The benefit is that the line of reasoning can be consistent with an appeal at a later stage. The downside is you might pay a lot of money for a document you might not even need to use. FWIW, most people don't seem to use a lawyer at this stage.

3) Again, up to you. Generally, you can appoint a lawyer for the appeal only, i.e. if and when you receive a removal order. My impressions is that most people appoint a lawyer at this stage, but note you can represent yourself in the appeal process. Benefit, as mentioned above, of appointing one earlier is help with the H&C doc for the border and consistency between the reasons you present at the border and what you base your (potential) appeal on.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,282
3,042
My PR card expires Apr 2025 and I would like to relocate to Canada for a job early Jun 2024.
The card was issued Jan 2020.
I just read some posts on RO and surely I can't meet it by Apr 2025. I can stay put in Canada from Jun 2024 to Jun 2026 to meet RO. Is there any thing that could smooth my entry to Canada and stay there until I can qualify to renew PR card?
. . . a couple more questions if you can help
- Which airport seems to be less risk of being reported, Toronto or Vancouver? In other words, should I fly to Toronto or Vancouver to minimize the risk?
- Would it help if I hire a lawyer to have an H&C report on hand on arrival?
- Also would it help if I prepare a lawyer ready in case of being reported? Or it is fine to find lawyer depend on the outcome?
Despite some differences in them, the posts by @Besram and @armoured cover most of what you need to know. Short of what we do not know (like whether arriving at any particular airport has more or less risk of encountering a referral to Secondary and questioning about compliance with the Residency Obligation).

Some Clarifications Nonetheless:

As @Besram noted, you are currently in breach of the RO. As @armoured discussed, it is very difficult to quantify the risk you will be subject to questions about your compliance with the RO, as long as you have a currently valid PR card, but "the sooner you return, the better." This means the odds of encountering RO enforcement at the Port-of-Entry increase the longer you remain absent, and likewise the risk of a negative outcome. Thing is, you are already in breach by a lot, so time is running out (especially if you landed before the end of December 2019; remember, for the first five years after landing, the critical RO compliance date depends on the date of landing, not the date the PR card was issued, not the date the PR card expires).

While you could hire a lawyer to advise you in regards to preparing to make a H&C case, a lawyer cannot help you at the PoE when you arrive. Between the difficult logistics of hiring a good Canadian immigration lawyer while abroad, and the cost, and so many unknowns about how things will go at the PoE when you arrive, it is hard to say whether that would be worthwhile. Lot may depend on your financial resources and access to lawyers in Canada. Even in the WORST case scenario at the PoE, when you arrive, you will still be allowed to enter Canada. That is, even if issued a Removal Order, it is not enforceable for 30 days, and if you appeal it will continue to not be enforceable pending the appeal.

Leading to . . .

If you are reported at that point, you will have 30 days (or perhaps 60?) to file an appeal and in my opinion time to hire a lawyer at that point.
Very likely that most, as in nearly all those in this situation, will indeed not hire a lawyer before the need to make an appeal.

For clarification: if a Removal Order is issued at the PoE, the PR has 30 days to appeal. (A PR has 60 days to appeal if an application for a PR Travel Document is denied.)

At the risk of getting into the weeds more than most appreciate, the fact that a 44(1) inadmissibility report is prepared will NOT necessarily require filing an appeal to save PR status. Only if the report is upheld on review by a Minister's Delegate (in practice, just a different CBSA officer than the one who prepared the Report) and the Minister's Delegate issues a Removal Order, will there be a need to appeal.

H&C Case Preparation:

If there have been specific events or circumstances causing a delay in making the move to Canada, of course it makes sense to gather and organize any documents that will support making the H&C case based on those, documenting the specific reasons why you were unable to move to Canada sooner. Obvious example would be a medical condition restricting your mobility, or a compelling need to attend to a parent, in which event it would be a good idea to have documents to present, like a letter from a doctor.

However, for many soft-landing PRs, given the practicalities involved in making the move, it just took longer than anticipated. Indeed, absent a more or less compelling situation blocking the PR from making the move to Canada, what matters the most are the numbers. Which leads back to what @armoured said about the sooner you get here, the better.

Beyond that, as noted above, there will be a chance, a time, to get a lawyer and put together a more formal H&C case if there is a Removal Order issued when you arrive. For now it may be enough to be prepared to simply explain your story, why it has taken so long, explaining the intent to get here as soon as you practically could, and your plan to settle in Canada PERMANENTLY.

The consideration of H&C factors is very different for purposes of RO enforcement compared to other contexts for making a H&C case. And different, even, for PRs still in their first five years since landing. Definitely different than it is for PRs making an application for a PR Travel Document relying on H&C relief. It can come down to whether the border officials conclude the PR deserves the chance to come to stay, allowed an opportunity to keep their PR status. Short of arriving barely in time to get here with a valid PR card (and even some of these PRs appear to be allowed a surprising amount of leeway), just an honest explanation about doing your best to get here, including efforts to leave the job you had and get a job in Canada might be enough (even though in other scenarios this would not carry much if any H&C weight) to persuade border officials you DESERVE the chance to stay in Canada. And if that is not enough, if a Removal Order is issued, you get to enter Canada anyway, and can file an appeal, and then hire a lawyer to help you make a more formal H&C case to the IAD.

By the way, if you are waived through the PoE without being questioned about RO compliance, or even if questioned, even if a Report is prepared, if you are allowed into Canada without being issued a Removal Order, you can stay and you do not need to get a new PR card until you have spent two years, long enough to cure the breach of the RO. Just be sure to get provincial health care and drivers' license while you still have a valid PR card, and if you do not already have one, a SIN.
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
15,466
7,876
Very likely that most, as in nearly all those in this situation, will indeed not hire a lawyer before the need to make an appeal.

For clarification: if a Removal Order is issued at the PoE, the PR has 30 days to appeal. (A PR has 60 days to appeal if an application for a PR Travel Document is denied.)
Agree with @dpenabill's disquisition.

One point that's relevant in terms of looking for and engaging a lawyer that neither of us mentioned: IF you are issued the notice of the removal order subject to appeal, my understanding is that filing the appeal is quite simple (return a form) and does not require a lawyer. It is some time after that - months - when the actual appeal takes place. So should this come to pass (which is far from certain), there will be time to engage a lawyer for the substantive parts when a lawyer might be needed.