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New rules??

Waiting_game

Newbie
Feb 4, 2018
9
1
Hello!

My boyfriend recently received PR status. He is French, I am a Canadian national. I just moved to France to live with him. When I moved here we understood that living in a common law relationship would count towards his permanent residency requirements (2 in 5 years). However, it seems like now that rule has become more strict, and in order for our common law relationship in France to count towards his PR status would mean that I need to satisfy the following work requirements:
  • Canadian Armed Forces
  • federal public administration
  • public service of a province or territory

So, is it just me, or have these rules recently changed? Am I interpreting them correctly?

Please advise!!!!
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
53,083
12,812
No, we haven’t. Does that make a difference??
Yes, It is pretty clear that you moved to France to accommodate his work so you will not be able to count the time together. Counting time abroad is really to prevent the Canadian citizen from pursuing opportunities, In reality that isn't always the case but given that you haven't even lived in Canada together it is clear that you are moving for his needs. Why did you apply for PR if you didn't intend to live in Canada?
 

vensak

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Jul 14, 2016
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ok you are mixing 2 things here.
PR requirements and Citizenship requirements.
What you have stated is for him to meet citizenship requirements (there only the time being sent out or accompanying PR or citizen that is sent out for the reasons you have stated will count toward that).

As for meeting PR requirements. It is becoming more strict in order to identify who is accompanying whom. Meaning the rules are in case you needed to leave Canada because of something else than accompanying him (for example a work opportunity or taking care of your elderly sick family abroad which for whatever good reason cannot come to Canada).

Unfortunately your case is proving rather opposite (meaning that you are accompanying him). And that can be seen very easily as he never moved in Canada (apart those few days to activate his PR) and you moved to his "place"

So yes there is a good chance that whole staying with him in France will not be counted towards his PR obligations despite you are Canadian.
And yes they are authorized to identify who is accompanying whom (not that they must, but they can).
 

KP1111

Star Member
Nov 13, 2012
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My situation is similar to Waiting_game. Right now, I have a valid PR card but we are moving out of Canada to live in my home country. I am hoping I can apply for a travel document when I have to come back in the future. I understand that I can come back as PR with a travel document. This is from January 2015, maybe there is a new rule.

7.5 Accompanying a Canadian citizen outside Canada


R61(4) provides that each day a permanent resident is outside Canada accompanying (that is, ordinarily residing with) a Canadian citizen constitutes a day of physical presence in Canada, provided that the Canadian citizen they are accompanying is a spouse or common-law partner or parent.

In the case of a permanent resident outside Canada accompanying a Canadian citizen, it is not necessary to determine who is accompanying whom, nor is it necessary to determine for what purpose. In other words, under A28(2)(a)(ii) and R61(4), as long as a permanent resident is accompanying a Canadian citizen, the intent and purpose of their absences are not relevant as the residency obligation is met.

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ircc/migration/ircc/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf23-eng.pdf
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,307
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My situation is similar to Waiting_game. Right now, I have a valid PR card but we are moving out of Canada to live in my home country. I am hoping I can apply for a travel document when I have to come back in the future. I understand that I can come back as PR with a travel document. This is from January 2015, maybe there is a new rule.

7.5 Accompanying a Canadian citizen outside Canada


R61(4) provides that each day a permanent resident is outside Canada accompanying (that is, ordinarily residing with) a Canadian citizen constitutes a day of physical presence in Canada, provided that the Canadian citizen they are accompanying is a spouse or common-law partner or parent.

In the case of a permanent resident outside Canada accompanying a Canadian citizen, it is not necessary to determine who is accompanying whom, nor is it necessary to determine for what purpose. In other words, under A28(2)(a)(ii) and R61(4), as long as a permanent resident is accompanying a Canadian citizen, the intent and purpose of their absences are not relevant as the residency obligation is met.

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ircc/migration/ircc/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf23-eng.pdf
CAUTION: NOTWITHSTANDING THE INFORMATION IN THE OPERATIONAL MANUAL ENF 23, THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS CASES IN WHICH WHO-ACCOMPANIED-WHOM HAS BEEN QUESTIONED AND RESULTED IN DENYING THE CREDIT WHEN IT IS DETERMINED THE CITIZEN WAS ACCOMPANYING THE PR RATHER THAN THE PR ACCOMPANYING THE CITIZEN.

This is NOT a new rule but it is an approach which has been more frequently applied in recent years. This is discussed in-depth in a topic specifically devoted to identifying who might be at risk for a who-accompanied-whom analysis when relying on credit for time abroad "accompanying" a Canadian citizen spouse. See:

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/who-accompanied-whom-can-matter-for-prs-living-with-citizen-spouse-abroad-update.579860/

A sample:

CAUTION: Who-accompanied-whom can make a difference when a PR claims credit toward the PR Residency Obligation based on time abroad accompanying the PR's Canadian citizen spouse.

There are now reasons to emphasize this caution more than it has been in the past.

CAVEAT: While NOT certain, my strong sense is that the general approach to NOT consider who-accompanied-whom STILL applies in MOST cases, with "NOTABLE EXCEPTIONS."
Many official accounts of actual cases are cited and linked in that topic.

The scenario described by the OP here tends to fit the profile of those cases in which IRCC might indeed consider who-accompanied-whom; and where the PR was not settled and living in Canada, and the citizen clearly moved abroad to be with the PR, there is a significant risk the accompanying-a-Canadian-citizen-spouse credit will NOT be allowed.


SOME ACTUAL CASES:

Perhaps the most salient example of an actual case in which the who-accompanied-whom question resulted in being denied credit is the IAD decision in Diouf, 2011 CanLII 59952 see http://canlii.ca/t/fn81r

Diouf is cited in over a dozen other cases. Some of those disagree with the Diouf decision but more of them explicitly consider who-accompanied-whom in deciding whether the accompanying-a-Canadian-citizen-spouse credit is allowed.

For clarity, the facts in the Diouf case clearly show that in addition to some time actually spent in Canada, the PR in Diouf was living abroad with her Canadian citizen spouse for two and a half years immediately previous to an application for a PR Travel Document. The IAD stated:

[16] From the viewpoint that permanent residents have to meet certain obligations, including being present in Canada for at least 730 days in a five-year period, surely the intention of Parliament was not to allow people who have been granted permanent residence to leave Canada and settle abroad and to allow those people who marry or are in a common-law relationship with a Canadian citizen to maintain or regain a status that would have otherwise been lost following an examination.

[17] Given the evidence on the record, the purpose of the Act and the meaning of the term “accompany,” the panel is not of the opinion that the appellant was outside Canada “accompanying” a Canadian citizen who is her spouse, as set out in subparagraph 28(2)(a)(ii) of the Act. The number of days that the appellant spent outside Canada while married to a Canadian citizen cannot be calculated as days she was present in Canada. The appellant did not demonstrate that she was present in Canada for at least 730 days in the five-year period, more specifically, from September 15, 2003, to September 15, 2008.

For emphasis, note the IAD stated: The number of days that the appellant spent outside Canada while married to a Canadian citizen cannot be calculated as days she was present in Canada.


Similarly in another decision which cited the Diouf decision, Khan, 2015 CanLII 99397 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/grz8t
In this case the IAD stated:

Upon careful consideration of all the evidence, as well as the intended interpretation of the word “accompany” within the context of the legislation and I find that at no time did the Appellant “accompany” his spouse. It is his spouse who went to Bangladesh to “accompany” the Appellant. There is no temporal nexus between the two events that could be construed as the Appellant relocating to Bangladesh in order to be with his Canadian citizen spouse . . .


Other decisions citing Diouf and taking into consideration who-accompanied-whom include:

Khaira v Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), 2014 CanLII 95529 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/gksqq

Which cited Diouf and stated: "As stated by this panel in its decision in Chen, [6] the term “accompanying” in this context requires the subject, the appellant, to move to where the object, his spouse, has gone."


Dadash-zadeh v Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), 2018 CanLII 46499 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/hsldq

Which cited Diouf and stated: "I share the prevailing approach of the IAD that the test in subparagraph 28(2)(a)(ii) of the Act cannot be met merely by counting the number of days a permanent resident spends outside Canada in the company of a Canadian citizen who is their spouse or common-law partner without regard to who is accompanying whom."

Also see:

Han v Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), 2017 CanLII 14435 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/h2n4d

Caesar v Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), 2014 CanLII 99165 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/gnf7w

Rochecouste v Canada (Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness), 2018 CanLII 60484 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/hst39

Kreidy v Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), 2017 CanLII 87454 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/hphj6

Dezfuli v Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), 2018 CanLII 89023 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/hv85q

Ibrahim v Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), 2018 CanLII 60499 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/hst3d



Contrary decisions (which reject consideration of who-accompanied-whom) include:

The Mustafa decision at http://canlii.ca/t/hs76z . .

Liong v Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), 2013 CanLII 98789 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/gj8wt

Auladin v Canada, 2015 CanLII 93049 http://canlii.ca/t/gndk9
(note that this decision relies more on a factual temporal nexus as, in effect, sidelining or overriding the who-accompanied-whom question)


SUMMARY: While I have NOT done an extensive accounting of recent decisions, it appears that the who-accompanied-whom question has loomed large in 2017 and 2018 decisions, suggesting this is either the trend or perhaps already the prevailing approach . . . again, notwithstanding the policy described in ENF 23.

THAT SAID, as long as the couple were living together in Canada BEFORE the move abroad, AND they are ordinarily residing together, it otherwise appears that the credit will be allowed without regard to who-accompanied-whom. Whether this will continue to be how these cases are handled is difficult to predict.

The main factor appears to be whether the PR was settled and living in Canada before the move abroad, and if so, as long as the citizen spouse moves abroad around the same time, they get the credit. If in contrast the PR is settled abroad for a considerable period of time before the citizen spouse joins the PR abroad, there is a risk the credit will be DENIED . . . and if the PR has never really been settled in Canada, that risk appears to be rather high.
 
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