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New restriction on sponsorship: Conditional Permanent Residence

notfromhere

Full Member
Dec 16, 2011
20
4
Thank you guys for all your support!
canadianwoman, he surely knows all the rules. I wont be surprized if he has already hired a lawyer, or at least got some consultation on the rules in general and his situation in particular.
sarinavene, Both he and I are aware of the fact , that PR can live OUTSIDE of Canada for longer than the 3 years, while residing with your Canadian spouse. Which is why he wouldn't divorce me, as he doesn't want me to go back to Canada but would rather keep me around.
backcountry, I appreciate your advice. But it won't work. This man is very smart, practical and calculates his every step in advance very carefully. He is a great player and manipulator. He wouldn't make a move without predicting the consequences. He would definitely never ever put anything like this in writing. But thanks for the idea. It might be usefull in some different way.
My case could be built on 2 points:
1. "Marriage fraud / conditional permanent residence". As I have heard, this very recent rule requires the sponsored person to stay in the relationship for at least 2 years. This was my initial question, whether or not this rule has already been implemented. As I now understand, it hasn't. But in any case since this rule is already in discussion, our case (I am sure, among other many similar ones) might be one of “testing” or “study” cases on how this law will work should it be enforced.
2. "Fake Citizenship" As scylla mentioned, “If they obtain citizenship and then chose to leave Canada, this is their choice as a citizen.”. This is not quite correct.
One thing, one's life has gone in a way that he/she has to reside in the foreign country for some period of time. For instance, I am a naturalized Canadian citizen myself. My first husband and I have gone through “Skilled Workers & Professionals” immigration in the beginning of 90s, then relocated to Canada, and I was sure it will be my final destination to the rest of my life. I went to the college in Toronto for smoother integration into society (even though I already had a University degree from my country of origin), then I got a job, then I bought a house, etc. But the life's gone in a way that 5,5 years ago I left Canada for the temporary job contract (that's where I met my present husband, who is 20 years younger). But Canada IS my home country, and I go there for my vacation every year, I have my daughter there, and one day (hope, rather soon!) I will go back to Canada , my HOME.
Another thing is when the person has no any intention whatsoever to live in Canada from the beginning. What these people need is a Canadian passport only. They don't contribute into canadain economy/development/life at all. Once declared “non-residency status while abroad”, they never pay Tax either. Simple question: WHY Canada needs such “citizens” all around the world? What does Canada gain from them, rather than troubles? Clear example of that is the war in Lebanon in 2005, when Canada has sent their ships to Lebanon to rescue the Canadian citizens (note this expense is on taxpayers shoulders!), and authorities were shocked when instead of 500-600 people as per registration with “Canadians abroad”, they found there about 5,000-6,000 “Canadians” waiting to be rescued. These people have never been registered with the “Canadian Abroad”. Because they didn't know about “Canadians abroad” service, as they don't consider themselves “candians living abroad”, as they do NOT consider Canada as their HOME! They are not Canadians; they are “Canadian passport holders”, living in their own home country, who has there a lot of privileges due to their Canadian passports. These people have no any intentions to ever go back to Canada, unless some “crisis” happens again. Then they will remember that they are “Canadians” and will demand to be served accordingly. This makes a huge huge difference!
And this is a case with my husband. He didn't intend to live in Canada upon obtaining his PR status, and I know that he was looking for some ways of “faking a presence” in Canada. And he kept me around, just in case. But now, when the authorities became really strict with that, and this is too risky, he decided to live in Canada only for the time which is absolutely necessary to obtain his citizenship. He will keep running a business here, in country A, while is “serving his time” in Canada (sorry, but that's how HE looks at the necessity of living in Canada). He won't break any other ties with his present country, he will never try to make Canada his home, and he will leave Canada as soon as he can. And then he will become one of those “Canadians with the benefits”, when he will use his citizenship for his own benefits only, of for the case of some crises in the region, when he will need to be rescued. Again WHY Canada needs such ‘Fake citizens'?
I hope the new rule – a Conditional Permanent Residence- shall be implemented at the earliest! It works perfectly in USA, Australia and other countries, and this is absolutely fair. Some people try to find some negative consequences of this law, such as domestic abuse, etc. . But then again, look at your South neighbour and do what they do in such cases.
 

amikety

VIP Member
Dec 4, 2011
4,905
143
Calgary
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If you are living separately, there will be proof. This alone should put a damper on his plans.

I don't know if its possible where you are, but you could try filing a separation agreement. Even if he refuses to sign it, get it notarized you signed it and send Immigration a copy along with your report. Send the minister a letter and your proof.

One of the reasons I read your post and replied is because I was victim of a fraudulent marriage too. (Not Immigration fraud.) When my ex left me, I got stuck with a five figure debt and no means to repay the debt he accumulated. He went as far as to try to divorce me behind my back so I couldn't counter sue. I lost the divorce suit (no evidence because he was slick too). After that I contacted lawyers and advocates all over the USA including the ACLU and Gloria Allred asking for help and got none. However, I don't regret it. Fighting for what's right is important. I hold my head up high knowing I did everything I could.

Months later, I remembered my husband and his parents lied to the IRS for years. Did I report him? You bet.

My point is, no matter how good he is, there's somewhere he'll slip up. If you're determined, you can find that spot. I won't say it will change the final outcome (I don't know if the IRS followed my tip) but you could "win the day" in the end. I think it's worth it. And I plan on filing additional reports against my ex until they call me!
 

notfromhere

Full Member
Dec 16, 2011
20
4
amikety, I am really sorry to hear about what you have gone through.. Hope you are good by now, and these are only bad memories.. . I wish you all the bests!
and thanks for encouraging me..
I have a proof of leaving separate, as I have a Lease Agreement in my own name (1 name only) and all the utilities are under my name. I know his exact address too. I don't think the separation agreement is possible in this muslim country in the Gulf area. But I can prepare this type of paper, stating that we have separated on this date, and I can try to get him to sign this paper, which is very much doubtful.
Again, maybe I won’t win, but as the Canadian government started recognizing the situation with the immigration/marriage fraud and taking clear steps against the violators, one may have a strong hope to succeed. Until recently, this problem has not been recognized by the Government. This new rule – conditional PR – was proposed only 2-3 months back. It might be accepted in another couple of months (hopefully!), and then my case will fall exactly under this category! In the meanwhile, yes, as you advised, I will try to do my best and will get ready to fight! Thanks ! :)
 

Peaches14

Star Member
Aug 29, 2012
89
4
Hamilton, Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville transferred to Hamilton
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
12-03-2012
Doc's Request.
None requested but sent them anyway
AOR Received.
29-06-2012
File Transfer...
October 1, 2012
Med's Done....
21-02-2012
As painful as this is I hope you can move on. You don't want this man wasting away any more of your life. Don't worry, what goes around, comes around.
 

AnaMaria

Hero Member
May 2, 2012
473
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New Westminster, BC
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Manila
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31-05-2012
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09-07-2012
File Transfer...
24-07-2012
Med's Done....
04-05-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
Waived
VISA ISSUED...
08-11-2012
LANDED..........
30-11-2012!

PMM

VIP Member
Jun 30, 2005
25,494
1,947
Hi


canadianwoman said:
Certainly report him to CIC and the Canada Border Services Agency. Just be prepared that they may not do anything. At the very least, though, even if they do nothing now, if he does come back and then tries to sponsor someone else, he will have problems doing so because of your report.
Especially since they have been married for over 3 years! CBSA is not going to investigate with all the parties living abroad. One thing is the x spouse won't be able to sponsor another spouse until sometime in 2016
 

notfromhere

Full Member
Dec 16, 2011
20
4
THey have to implement this rule - a conditional PR - at the earliest! It makes so much sense! I am surprized, why until now this law isn't enforced! It is easy to see if the relations are genuine. They could impose some fees for such applications, so that the applicant would take his steps seriously. The procedure should be easy:
-The sponsor submits the application, with all the evidences and proofs attached.
- the officer arranges the interview with either only sponsored person or both sponsored person and sponsor
- Decision is made
It's exactly the same process like Sponsorship, but backwards. What's so complicated in that?
I heard some voices that it's inhuman, to let the sponsored person settle down in the new country and then to deport him/her. Nothing is inhuman in it, if the sponsored person is aware of his “conditional status” from the beginning. It's exactly as “inhuman” as someone lost his/her job, and has to start all over again. This is life.
In the Gulf country where I currently live, people are coming and leaving on the daily basis. Some people live here 5-10-15 years. They get married here, have their kids, etc. But once the contract is over and/or they got terminated they have to pack their stuff and go home. Nothing wrong with that. We forgot the initial purpose of Sponsorship. It allows the families to unite. If the sponsored spouse leaves the sponsor within weeks from the date of landing, it means, there is no family anymore, and therefore there is nothing to unite. Then please go home! Simple!
I am convinced that the Canadian Government has to implement this rule at the very earliest.
 

notfromhere

Full Member
Dec 16, 2011
20
4
Guys, what do you think if I hired a lawyer, and tried to annul the Sponsorship itself!
There is NO “Sponsorship” case anymore.
Initial purpose of Sponsorship is to allow the families (1) to unite; (2) to unite in Canada.
Neither of above two conditions are applicable in our case.
1.We are not a family anymore;
2.We are not in Canada.
The “sponsorship case” must be simply annulled!
Does it make any sense?
 

PMM

VIP Member
Jun 30, 2005
25,494
1,947
Hi


notfromhere said:
Guys, what do you think if I hired a lawyer, and tried to annul the Sponsorship itself!
There is NO “Sponsorship” case anymore.
Initial purpose of Sponsorship is to allow the families (1) to unite; (2) to unite in Canada.
Neither of above two conditions are applicable in our case.
1.We are not a family anymore;
2.We are not in Canada.
The “sponsorship case” must be simply annulled!
Does it make any sense?
Nope, you sponsored spouse, spouse received PR visa, spouse "landed", sponsorship complete.
 

notfromhere

Full Member
Dec 16, 2011
20
4
sorry PMM, but I am afraid, you are outdated. Government is seriously after the immigration and marriage fraud lately. Over 3,000 Canadian Citizenships to be revoked (http://www.visaplace.com/blog-immigration-law/canadian-citizenship-applications/3000-canadian-citizenships-revoked/); conditional PR is implemented, or about to be implemented (http://www.canadaupdates.com/content/canada%E2%80%99s-conditional-permanent-residence-curbing-marriage-fraud-18209.html), and you say “complete”.
As a matter of fact I have already contacted couple of lawyers, and they both said, yes it is possible, and both are ready to undertake the case. One of them even said, he has already had a precedent with the similar case.
 

amikety

VIP Member
Dec 4, 2011
4,905
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Calgary
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Med's Done....
12-10-2012
Passport Req..
9-07-2013
VISA ISSUED...
7-08-2013
LANDED..........
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Just be careful with lawyers. Sometimes they say just for your money. My divorce lawyer saw a hurt woman and took advantage of that. It's always good to let them think you're dirt poor. Some give more objective advice.

But I hope you get him!

Take care :)
 

canadianwoman

VIP Member
Nov 6, 2009
6,200
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I'm sure you could find a lawyer to fight it. But if you do, try to find one who is looking for such a 'test' case, because otherwise the fees will be so much you might as well have just let your scamming foreign husband in and paid for his welfare benefits for three years.
 

gsize

Hero Member
May 2, 2009
958
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please report him ! CIC is now taking these issues very seriosuly. Part of the reason for lengthy wait times is due to so many fraud cases in the past.

good luck........such a sad story. Bad karma will follow him.
 

AnaMaria

Hero Member
May 2, 2012
473
13
New Westminster, BC
Category........
Visa Office......
Manila
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
31-05-2012
AOR Received.
09-07-2012
File Transfer...
24-07-2012
Med's Done....
04-05-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
Waived
VISA ISSUED...
08-11-2012
LANDED..........
30-11-2012!
notfromhere said:
sorry PMM, but I am afraid, you are outdated. Government is seriously after the immigration and marriage fraud lately. Over 3,000 Canadian Citizenships to be revoked (http://www.visaplace.com/blog-immigration-law/canadian-citizenship-applications/3000-canadian-citizenships-revoked/); conditional PR is implemented, or about to be implemented (http://www.canadaupdates.com/content/canada%E2%80%99s-conditional-permanent-residence-curbing-marriage-fraud-18209.html), and you say “complete”.
As a matter of fact I have already contacted couple of lawyers, and they both said, yes it is possible, and both are ready to undertake the case. One of them even said, he has already had a precedent with the similar case.
The revoking those individuals of their PR or citizen is based on the criminal charge. The government was able to identify the evidence of fraud. If you can collect the strong evidence of fraud, the government might be able to take action against your husband, however small the chance might be. As you said, the government is seriously after immigration fraud. You could have canceled the sponsorship if it had been before the decision was made. But at the time when the decision was made and when he landed, he was your family member. Currently there is nothing to mandate that the couples must stay together once the applicant has landed, as the regulation of conditional status has not been in effect. Even so I believe it would be only applicable for the applications submitted (or PR granted) that effective day and onward, not the past cases. I think you can still annul your marriage, although I suppose you will need his agreement, the chance of which is probably second to none.

I am quite certain there would be many lawyers to do something for you out of pure profits. But remember they will not guarantee the results and they won't lose anything by losing your case. But they will make money out of you. Be cautious who you will be engaged with.

In the meantime, report the case with as much evidence as possible, try to delay his return to Canada. You are legally responsible for his finance for 3 years after PR is granted (or he landed) even if your marriage is over.
 

realmiracle

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Oct 22, 2012
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amikety said:
I support backcountry's idea entirely. It's rare a spouse gets deported and PR taken away, but it has happened. I'd fight for it until there was nothing left.
I support your spirit.