Need Advice: Schedule 008, Self employed earnings along with a full time job

[pmpm]

Hi All

There is a friend of mine in below mentioned situation: Please advise.

He has been working for 13 months as a full time employee (Skill level A). In this duration, he also worked 15-20 hours per month (only during weekends) for a small accounting company based in a different province. For this work done at accounting company, the understanding between him and company head is that he will be considered "self-employed" and receive T4A for his earnings. Now he is planning to apply for CEC-PR. In Schedule 008, he has listed the occupations that fall under Skill level 0, A and/or B; the work done as self employed doesn't fall under any of these skill levels so he doesn't list that. But there is a Question that asks "were you self-employed during the period(s) of employment listed above", now we both are confused. According to the period when he did Skill level A job, that job is not "self-employed", though he was self-employed but for another work which doesn't fall under skill levels.

Please advise, he doesn't want to get into "misrepresentation of information" just for a little confusion.

Also how to mention this information in Previous history (background application) in order "not to confuse" VO
Thanks a lot

 

[pmpm]

Hi Andy2109, jes_on and other seniors.... Please need some advice.

 

[jes_ON]

first, are you certain it is unskilled? Most self-employment would likely be skilled, is why I ask.

In any case, the form (Sched 8) requests an explanation if you answer "yes," and gives you a handy little box to write in the explanation.

 

[Andy2109]

Hi Andy2109, jes_on and other seniors.... Please need some advice.

Do not mention the 'self employment' anywhere on the CEC application as it is not the primary basis on which you are evidencing Canadian work experience. In addition, it does not qualify under any of the skill codes as well.
Having done this, explain about this in the form of a covering letter stating the reason for which you have not mentioned about this self employed job in the application.

 

[jes_ON]

I disagree - it is true it will not count towards the eligiblity requirements, but to answer "No" to a direct question where the answer is clearly "yes" is misrepresentation.

Answer yes, and then explain as you did above - the applicant was self-employed in a second part-time job, NOC XXXX, that is not identified above because it is unskilled.

 

[pmpm]

Thanks guys...will get back after discussing with my friend...

 

[Andy2109]

Hi All

There is a friend of mine in below mentioned situation: Please advise.

He has been working for 13 months as a full time employee (Skill level A). In this duration, he also worked 15-20 hours per month (only during weekends) for a small accounting company based in a different province. For this work done at accounting company, the understanding between him and company head is that he will be considered "self-employed" and receive T4A for his earnings. Now he is planning to apply for CEC-PR. In Schedule 008, he has listed the occupations that fall under Skill level 0, A and/or B; the work done as self employed doesn't fall under any of these skill levels so he doesn't list that. But there is a Question that asks "were you self-employed during the period(s) of employment listed above", now we both are confused. According to the period when he did Skill level A job, that job is not "self-employed", though he was self-employed but for another work which doesn't fall under skill levels.

Please advise, he doesn't want to get into "misrepresentation of information" just for a little confusion.

Also how to mention this information in Previous history (background application) in order "not to confuse" VO
Thanks a lot

"Were you self-employed during the period(s) of employment listed above" question in Schedule 008 refers only back to Question 5 where you detail the work exp. and the NOC code it belongs to.

 

[jes_ON]

I know what you mean, but the exact verbiage is:

"Were you self-employed during any of the above listed periods?" No reference to specific NOC code, only "period* (e.g. time period) and the answer was "yes."

There may be a gap between intent and actual instructions, but in my opinion it's much safer to interpret literally than to assume you can read CIC's mind...

Of course it would also be true to attach a written explanation - saying you were not certain how you should answer the question and explain about the second job. You could say "no" on the form and in the box write "BUT SEE ATTACHED EXPLANATION."

 

[Andy2109]

Agree with you jes_ON

pmpm,
there are no written guidelines to address your query. just follow the basic rules and submit a written explanation.

 

[pmpm]

Thanks Jes_on and Andy2109...really appreciate

Jes_ON: Its a small accounting company, only one person the company head (accountant also) and another person a full time employee (assistant). My friend works as self-employed (at his home, on his computer) only during weekends and enters the bank statements on excel sheet (that is all he does, no other accounting or taxation related work). So that is why he can't call himself a book keeper (Skill level B), of all the duties listed in NOC as book keeper he does only one. None at all of rest of them...this is the reason why he thinks the work doesn't qualify to Skill level B.

Thanks guys

 

[jsm0085]

pmpm,

Ensure that when you are completing schedule 8 you detail ALL your work experience within the past 3 years. The form does not request only the work experience that is relevant to the application - it asks for all work experience within Canada over the last three years.

As suggested by Jes, tick that you have been self employed and give the details of that period of employment.

CEC will then calculate your eligibility based on the other work experience you have within Canada.

Omitting any information from this form, especially when it will be on your background dec, will likely cause problems during the processing of your application.

Good luck!

 

[pmpm]

pmpm,

Ensure that when you are completing schedule 8 you detail ALL your work experience within the past 3 years. The form does not request only the work experience that is relevant to the application - it asks for all work experience within Canada over the last three years.

As suggested by Jes, tick that you have been self employed and give the details of that period of employment.

CEC will then calculate your eligibility based on the other work experience you have within Canada.

Omitting any information from this form, especially when it will be on your background dec, will likely cause problems during the processing of your application.

Good luck!

Hi jsm0085
Thanks for the input.
though as per the Instruction guide: In Schedule 8:
Question 5

Write the details of your work experience in Canada.

List your occupations within the 3 years preceding the date your application is made starting with your current occupation. List only occupations that fall in Skill Type 0 or Skill Levels A or B of the National Occupational Classification (NOC) code.

And as I have explained my friend's work on my last post to Jes_ON, my friend is not sure if his work qualifies for Skill Level B (as a book keeper).
Kindly let me know what do you think about this.

We are trying to stay as far as possible from misrepresentation of info, though we both are still confused with this situation. Please advise.

 

[jsm0085]

Schedule 8 says: -

5. Your Work Experience in Canada
Starting with your current occupation, list your occupations within the 3 years preceding the date of your application. For each occupation, identify the dates of employment, your occupation, the appropriate National Occupational Classification (NOC) code, the name of your employer, a description of your main duties and your weekly hours.

The guide says: -

Write the details of your work experience in Canada.

List your occupations within the 3 years preceding the date your application is made starting with your current occupation. List only occupations that fall in Skill Type 0 or Skill Levels A or B of the National Occupational Classification (NOC) code.

For each occupation listed, provide the following details:

the period of employment,
the appropriate NOC code and occupation description,
the name of your employer(s),
a description of your main duties, and
the number of hours you worked per week.

So yes, I'd personally say it's pretty conflicting advice. I don't think any harm would come from putting it in Schedule 8, as they will just not take that experience into account. It's probably however unlikely that they would claim you misrepresented yourself if you choose to omit it from this form, so long as you declare it in your background dec.

Jes_ON, what are your thoughts?

 

[pmpm]

Hi jsm0085, Jes_ON, Andy and other folks

Jes_ON: Its a small accounting company, only one person the company head (accountant also) and another person a full time employee (assistant). My friend works as self-employed (at his home, on his computer) only during weekends and enters the bank statements on excel sheet (that is all he does, no other accounting or taxation related work). So that is why he can't call himself a book keeper (Skill level B), of all the duties listed in NOC as book keeper he does only one. None at all of rest of them...this is the reason why he thinks the work doesn't qualify to Skill level B.

What are your thoughts on the work being Skilled or not?

Also in Personal History (Back ground declaration), for self-employment, how do we fill the info. I know it sounds silly to ask, but lets say: as it is "to be filled" on Personal History :
From Jan 2012 to March 2013: Full time job (the work exp that makes him eligible for CEC); activity: ABC; employer XYZ.
again from Jan 2012 to March 2013: Self employed

??

Is it going to confuse VO? Guess he should write a letter explaining about self employment (and the work he did) as an attached doc to this form. What do you guys think.

Any comments are welcome.

 

[Andy2109]

Hi jsm0085, Jes_ON, Andy and other folks

Jes_ON: Its a small accounting company, only one person the company head (accountant also) and another person a full time employee (assistant). My friend works as self-employed (at his home, on his computer) only during weekends and enters the bank statements on excel sheet (that is all he does, no other accounting or taxation related work). So that is why he can't call himself a book keeper (Skill level B), of all the duties listed in NOC as book keeper he does only one. None at all of rest of them...this is the reason why he thinks the work doesn't qualify to Skill level B.

What are your thoughts on the work being Skilled or not?

Also in Personal History (Back ground declaration), for self-employment, how do we fill the info. I know it sounds silly to ask, but lets say: as it is "to be filled" on Personal History :
From Jan 2012 to March 2013: Full time job (the work exp that makes him eligible for CEC); activity: ABC; employer XYZ.
again from Jan 2012 to March 2013: Self employed

??

Is it going to confuse VO? Guess he should write a letter explaining about self employment (and the work he did) as an attached doc to this form. What do you guys think.

Any comments are welcome.

I still stand by what I said earlier. This experience is not to be listed.
Better explain separately in a covering letter than contradict and confuse.

And I can tell you one thing for sure. CIC is very understanding. You choose to write or not... but the application will not be refused on this issue if you have submitted an explanation.