Need Advice: Complicated PR case

[crusader911]

Hello,

I am planning to immigrate to Canada. I currently reside in the United States on my F1 (Student) Visa and my country of permanent residence is India. I came to the United States in 2016 and since then, I finished my Masters in Computer Sciences and worked here in the States for 2 years. I am a Computer Scientist by profession and looking at all the opportunities in the developing economy of Canada, I would like to work and stay there permanently.

But there's more to this story; I have been a Permanent resident of Canada in 2007 (when I was 13 years old) and me and my family stayed in Canada till 2008 (A total of 283 days). My family then decided to leave Canada and I had to go back to India (being a minor). Therefore, my PR card expired in 2012. I had done some research online and the Canadian Government website says that I have to file for PRTD (Permanent Resident Travel Document) to re-enter Canada and then renew my PR card if they approve my case. I am also writing this under Humanitarian and Compassionate grounds section for my PRTD.

"When I was in Canada as a permanent resident, I was only 13 years old and hence a minor. Therefore, I was under the supervision of my parents and cannot make my own decisions. Due to their discomfort in Toronto (extreme cold), they decided to move to India permanently. However, I was in oppose to leave as I was getting the best education at Nelson A Boylen High school. I wanted to stay but I was forced by my parents to leave Canada and live with them in India. Years passed by and I adapted the Indian lifestyle and studied there till my Bachelors and decided to complete higher studies in USA. Now, I would like to live permanently in Canada as it was and still is my dream."

What are the chances of my getting a PRTD and then getting a PR after that? If I get rejected, can I start from scratch? Give IELTS and file again under Express Entry?

 

[scylla]

Hello,

I am planning to immigrate to Canada. I currently reside in the United States on my F1 (Student) Visa and my country of permanent residence is India. I came to the United States in 2016 and since then, I finished my Masters in Computer Sciences and worked here in the States for 2 years. I am a Computer Scientist by profession and looking at all the opportunities in the developing economy of Canada, I would like to work and stay there permanently.

But there's more to this story; I have been a Permanent resident of Canada in 2007 (when I was 13 years old) and me and my family stayed in Canada till 2008 (A total of 283 days). My family then decided to leave Canada and I had to go back to India (being a minor). Therefore, my PR card expired in 2012. I had done some research online and the Canadian Government website says that I have to file for PRTD (Permanent Resident Travel Document) to re-enter Canada and then renew my PR card if they approve my case. I am also writing this under Humanitarian and Compassionate grounds section for my PRTD.

"When I was in Canada as a permanent resident, I was only 13 years old and hence a minor. Therefore, I was under the supervision of my parents and cannot make my own decisions. Due to their discomfort in Toronto (extreme cold), they decided to move to India permanently. However, I was in oppose to leave as I was getting the best education at Nelson A Boylen High school. I wanted to stay but I was forced by my parents to leave Canada and live with them in India. Years passed by and I adapted the Indian lifestyle and studied there till my Bachelors and decided to complete higher studies in USA. Now, I would like to live permanently in Canada as it was and still is my dream."

What are the chances of my getting a PRTD and then getting a PR after that? If I get rejected, can I start from scratch? Give IELTS and file again under Express Entry?

It's almost guaranteed the PRTD will be refused. You are 25 or 26 now which is too old to claim H&C due to being removed from Canada as a minor. In order to successfully use this H&C reason, you have to apply for the PRTD when you are 17-21 years old. By 26, you are too old and IRCC is of the view that you should have made it a priority to return to Canada as soon as you became an adult.

Yes, if you are refused then you would have to apply for PR from scratch.

 

[crusader911]

Thank you for the response. Unfortunately, that was not the response I was anticipating. However, if my PRTD was rejected, how long is the wait time before I can apply for PR from scratch? And are the chances of me getting a PR slim as I was rejected once? Again, I didn't apply for my own PR and it was my family who applied for it. I believe that I can score better in IELTS and can apply in the express entry but if they would reject me based on my history (which I had no control over), that would be really disappointing.

 

[scylla]

Thank you for the response. Unfortunately, that was not the response I was anticipating. However, if my PRTD was rejected, how long is the wait time before I can apply for PR from scratch? And are the chances of me getting a PR slim as I was rejected once? Again, I didn't apply for my own PR and it was my family who applied for it. I believe that I can score better in IELTS and can apply in the express entry but if they would reject me based on my history (which I had no control over), that would be really disappointing.

Once your PRTD is refused, you can pretty much apply for a PR right away.

If the PRTD is refused and you have to apply for PR from scratch, your chances of being approved will be the same as anyone else. The fact had PR previously won't matter at all. If you apply under Express Entry, whether you get PR or not will be purely based on how many points you have.

 

[crusader911]

Once your PRTD is refused, you can pretty much apply for a PR right away.

If the PRTD is refused and you have to apply for PR from scratch, your chances of being approved will be the same as anyone else. The fact had PR previously won't matter at all. If you apply under Express Entry, whether you get PR or not will be purely based on how many points you have.

Thanks. That was hopeful and I will start preparing for IELTS right away. Since I live in the US, the Visa Application Centers are currently closed and I cannot apply for PRTD. However, I only have 3 months left here in the States before I have to leave this country. Can you recommend me a way I can enter Canada without having to go back to my country? And I am ready to give IELTS and apply in 2 months but that takes a few months to process. Any help/suggessions would be highly appreciated.

 

[canuck78]

DO you have a SIN#?

 

[crusader911]

DO you have a SIN#?

Yes, I have a SIN number.

 

[Buletruck]

Honestly, once you are ready to consider moving, I would attempt to cross a land border to see if you are reported first. If you can enter without being reported, you can work as long as you have your SIN number. You would have to wait 2 years before you could renew your PR card, but IMO, it’s worth a shot. Healthcare might be an issue, but cross that bridge when you get to it.

 

[crusader911]

Honestly, once you are ready to consider moving, I would attempt to cross a land border to see if you are reported first. If you can enter without being reported, you can work as long as you have your SIN number. You would have to wait 2 years before you could renew your PR card, but IMO, it’s worth a shot. Healthcare might be an issue, but cross that bridge when you get to it.

But isn't that illegal? Sorry, I don't know how it works and why should land border be any different than the plane or sea? Also, my PR card is 12 years old now. Of course I have SIN number but shouldn't that be expired or something? Can you please explain the land border scenario and why can't I do the same with plane?

 

[devnill]

But isn't that illegal? Sorry, I don't know how it works and why should land border be any different than the plane or sea? Also, my PR card is 12 years old now. Of course I have SIN number but shouldn't that be expired or something? Can you please explain the land border scenario and why can't I do the same with plane?

No it's not illegal. You are still PR until it is revoked or you give it up and as a PR you have a right of entry into Canada if you present yourself at the border. An agent may report you for breaching the RO but they will still have to allow you entry. You won't be allowed board a flight as your PR card has expired and a valid PR card is required for flights, even from the US.

The only problem in the short term is that Canada has mandatory quarantine on arrival, so you may end up having to go to a hotel for the first couple of weeks (assume you have nowhere to stay).

 

[canuck78]

But isn't that illegal? Sorry, I don't know how it works and why should land border be any different than the plane or sea? Also, my PR card is 12 years old now. Of course I have SIN number but shouldn't that be expired or something? Can you please explain the land border scenario and why can't I do the same with plane?

You have essentially have 2 options. Apply for a PRTD or enter via the US border if you have a US visa. As a PR you will be admitted but have a good chance of being reported. You have the right to appeal but no H&C reasons. Had you returned at 18 it would have been a different story. If you enter, even if you are not reported, you can’t sponsor a spouse for 2+ years and won’t be able to leave Canada for 2-3 years until you get a valid PR card. If you are reported you will likely live in limbo for a few years.

 

[crusader911]

Thank you @canuck78 and @devnill. Both of your answers are really helpful to me. I am pretty much clear about what I would have to face when I enter Canada via a private vehicle on road. However, what do you mean by limbo? Would I not be able to work? Would I be a legal citizen or an illegal one. Shouldn't it be better to just revoke my PR card now and then give IELTS and apply for express entry? I know there's always a risk of being rejected but doesn't that feel like a faster option to get a valid PR card? And I don't know what will happen to me if I get reported, would I be blacklisted and never get a PR card ever?

I apologize for asking such minute details, however, my life depends on it. My US visa is expiring this December (i.e. 2020) in 6 months. I cannot go back to my country right now as my conditions there won't allow me. I have to support my family and work in Canada. That's why I want options. You guys are the expert and you can definitely suggest a better route. I emailed a few lawyers but their fees are really expensive and I cannot afford it. I really appreciate all of your help here, helping me in these tough times.

 

[Buletruck]

But isn't that illegal? Sorry, I don't know how it works and why should land border be any different than the plane or sea? Also, my PR card is 12 years old now. Of course I have SIN number but shouldn't that be expired or something? Can you please explain the land border scenario and why can't I do the same with plane?

No, it’s not illegal. As a permenent resident, you are entitled to enter Canada. Unless you have renounced or had you status revoked, you remain a PR. The card is simply a travel document. The difference with a land border is you can simply walk up and present yourself for entry. With commercial transportation (plane, boat, bus, train) you are required to present a valid PR card, PRTD or in the case of foreign nationals, a valid visa before they will allow you to embark.
Granted, there is a definite possibility of being reported for failing to meet RO, there is also the chance they will just let it go. Be prepared to present your reasons for not being compliant. If you are reported, you can appeal. I wouldn’t go as far as calling it being in limbo, but there are issues related to it. Best to establish yourself as much as possible during that time as that can carry significant weight in an appeal.
Again, IMO, as you are a PR I would make every effort to reestablish myself before arbitrarily giving it up as lost. Do some research on the subject, the pros and cons and decide for yourself.

 

[Buletruck]

Thank you @canuck78 and @devnill. Both of your answers are really helpful to me. I am pretty much clear about what I would have to face when I enter Canada via a private vehicle on road. However, what do you mean by limbo? Would I not be able to work? Would I be a legal citizen or an illegal one. Shouldn't it be better to just revoke my PR card now and then give IELTS and apply for express entry? I know there's always a risk of being rejected but doesn't that feel like a faster option to get a valid PR card? And I don't know what will happen to me if I get reported, would I be blacklisted and never get a PR card ever?

I apologize for asking such minute details, however, my life depends on it. My US visa is expiring this December (i.e. 2020) in 6 months. I cannot go back to my country right now as my conditions there won't allow me. I have to support my family and work in Canada. That's why I want options. You guys are the expert and you can definitely suggest a better route. I emailed a few lawyers but their fees are really expensive and I cannot afford it. I really appreciate all of your help here, helping me in these tough times.

You are a legal resident of Canada, even if you are reported and the right to enter and appeal remains the same. As long as you have a SIN number, you can work. As I said, obtaining healthcare might be a struggle. Keep in mind that if you do make it in without being reported, remaining for 2 years, regardless of circumstances would be key.
Worst case, you can try entering and if reported you can actually start the process to renounce at the border. It would have no implications on future applications.

 

[crusader911]

No, it’s not illegal. As a permenent resident, you are entitled to enter Canada. Unless you have renounced or had you status revoked, you remain a PR. The card is simply a travel document. The difference with a land border is you can simply walk up and present yourself for entry. With commercial transportation (plane, boat, bus, train) you are required to present a valid PR card, PRTD or in the case of foreign nationals, a valid visa before they will allow you to embark.
Granted, there is a definite possibility of being reported for failing to meet RO, there is also the chance they will just let it go. Be prepared to present your reasons for not being compliant. If you are reported, you can appeal. I wouldn’t go as far as calling it being in limbo, but there are issues related to it. Best to establish yourself as much as possible during that time as that can carry significant weight in an appeal.
Again, IMO, as you are a PR I would make every effort to reestablish myself before arbitrarily giving it up as lost. Do some research on the subject, the pros and cons and decide for yourself.

My research is from the Canadian Government Website and from all these forums. I have been reading up experiences of what people say. If I use the border router, there is no coming back for me. I have to stay in Canada. I just need a confirmation that the border agent will not turn me back or not grant me an entry to Canada. If that happens, I live in Florida and I would invest all these time and money in moving my home and it would be wasted. Again, that is a risk I am willing to take if the chances of me getting an entry in Canada is more than 60%. What do you say? You seem like an experienced person. Also, if for some miracle, I get an entry to Canada, what would be the process if I get reported? Do I hire a lawyer there? What if they reject my appeal and they kick me out of the country? That would be devastating.