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My sister landed Toronto airport, CBSA officer says u must stay 2ys in SK

dpenabill

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Rob_TO said:
Would be interesting to see if there is even 1 case in Canadian PNP immigration history, where someone's PR was revoked due to not staying in the province they got PNP PR from.
I do not read anywhere near all IAD decisions about misrepresentation, and many such cases do not get publicly reported, but at least since the peak of the Harper-Kenney initiative to go after fraud (beginning around 2009 or so) there has been a relatively steady stream of misrepresentation cases leading to the loss of PR status. The nature of the underlying misrepresentations vary considerably.

But I suspect the broader impact is in later processing. As I discuss below, it is glaringly obvious if the PNP PR makes little or no effort to settle in the sponsoring province, and this remains glaringly obvious in the PR's immigration history. So even if there is no fraud investigation leading to criminal prosecution or loss of status, there remains the prospect, down the road, that IRCC will approach the PR with heightened skepticism and suspicion . . . when the PR applies to sponsor a family member, applies for a new PR card or a PR TD from abroad, or applies for citizenship. This forum, like others, has had a tendency to focus on what will meet the technicalities, often the minimum technicalities, overlooking the extent to which a negative assessment of credibility can hurt or even totally sabotage the PR.

Topics here about Secondary Review, and the travails of those suffering it, amply illustrate the downside of being the subject of skepticism or suspicion. Of course most of those reporting and complaining about this, in this forum anyway, claim to be innocent, and perhaps many are little more than the victim of coincidence or unforuntate appearances. But those coming to Canada pursuant to a PNP program should be cognizant that not settling in the sponsoring province will make a rather distinct impression, and not a favourable one, but one that will stay with the PR's immigration history for at least a good while. The appearance will be they were scamming the system, even if they weren't.

In the meantime, while it appears there is no specific condition which is breached by failing to remain in the sponsoring province (no one has cited any here), Section 6 of the Charter of Rights does not prevent the government from imposing such a condition, if it chose to do so and went through the proper procedures for adopting a regulation or law to that effect.



mf4361 said:
Saying "I know" doesn't automatically means "It is". You can't make up your own restriction just because it says "There are certain types...." because it's stated in 6(3) and (4). And you are picking sentences from publication to make your own point. Its like David Letterman poking jokes at Sarah Palin https://youtu.be/wpUNx-LlhCQ?t=49s

Charter Rights applies when CBSA signs off your landing paper and clears you thru border. Regarding your situation where one had paper trail, that would actually violates IRPA Sec. 87 (2) b for "intention to reside in the province" [2] and could cause refusal at the border. Mobility Right does't apply yet at that point.
I quoted selected parts for emphasis. This did not change the essential meaning.

While the source you cite is just one other lawyer's opinion (not an official or even authoritative source), it happens to be an opinion I agree with in that it overtly acknowledges the government can and does impose restraints on the mobility of citizens as well as PRs, and the courts have generally upheld these as valid.

In particular, the mobility rights prescribed in Section 6 are not absolute. Which is to say a law which has the effect of restraining the mobility of Canadians is NOT necessarily unconstitutional or a violation of Charter Rights. It depends. If the government can articulate a need for the law and show it is designed to reasonably meet that need, it is likely to be upheld (as your source cites, the authority for this is Section 1 of the Charter, which overrides Section 6 and most of the rest of the Charter as well).

I am confident that a rationally based condition imposed for a reasonable duration would not be deemed a violation of the Charter. As I noted, this is actually an easy call since, as I also noted, Canadian immigration law already imposes and enforces a rather profound restraint on the mobility of some PRs, spousal sponsored PRs in particular . . . who must cohabit with their sponsor, the effect of which is that they must live where their sponsor lives, and thus cannot freely move to even any other apartment, let alone another city, let alone another province, for two years AFTER landing (only consequence, however, is loss of PR status).

And regarding this condition, there are scores of cases in which it has been enforced.

The point is that the government can impose reasonable conditions governing statutory grants of status even if the effect of those conditions impedes the mobility of a new immigrant. How strict or for how long may be, probably is, subject to some Charter-based assessment, but the government has the authority to impose reasonable conditions limiting the mobility of Canadians.

That said, as I acknowledged, I do not know what if any conditions are imposed on PNP PRs which would be breached by not settling in the sponsoring province. If there are any such conditions, they are almost certainly valid and enforceable. No one has come forward to cite any specific condition of this sort.

Thus, my impression is that there is no such condition. So the real and practical issue is to what extent the failure to settle in the sponsoring province could otherwise have a detrimental impact on the PNP PR. Thing is, if the PNP PR makes no more than a minimal effort to settle in the sponsoring province, this will be glaringly obvious in the PR's history. Even if the PR was not deliberately scamming the system, it will look like that was the plan. Not exactly the impression conscientious immigrants want to give their new government.

Some may think that unless the government takes immediate remedial action, there are no consequences. That is a mistake. Not for everyone who does this. But for many there is a real risk this could haunt or damage a future application, whether it is to sponsor a family member, apply for a new PR card or PR TD from abroad, or when applying for citizenship. The actual scope of the impact in a particular instance is beyond forecasting. But the range of possibilities is apparent: little or no impact at one end, investigation and potential prosecution for fraud at the other, with a variable impact on credibility in-between.

Not the best way to start a new life in a new country.
 

Tri-Cities

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simoncanada

Lool

Since when is it up to you to decide what a user has to say? Don't read it if you don't care / don't wanna hear it. I'm sick of people misusing the system, happens every day. Too bad that CIC / IRSS won't get rid of people misusing the PNP! Zhey should...and who lnows maybe they start to have an eye on it - good for them :)
 

mf4361

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http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/jason-kenney-expected-to-announce-2900-being-stripped-of-citizenship-for-fraud

Jason Kenney move to revoke PR and Citizenship was against people who gained it by fake documents or claimed residency in Canadian soil but actually not living here. And rightfully so.

None of them were PNP immigrants landed and moved away from province of interest

Stop the "Better to stay" troll. Its starting to become a fearmongering move. Provinces can track your movement for their record and used to evaluate the efficiency of their PNP program, but they can't use it to accuse anyone

If provinces can restrict internal movement they would have done it long time ago. That would win a lot of votes.

Rob_TO said:
Would be interesting to see if there is even 1 case in Canadian PNP immigration history, where someone's PR was revoked due to not staying in the province they got PNP PR from.
IIRC NBPNP Express entry stream has a form to sign and promise to live in the province....I wonder when will be the first court case nullifying it if it was used against new immigrants

https://www.pxw1.snb.ca/snb7001/e/1000/CSS-FOL-NBPNP-001E.pdf

Interestingly, Charter Right Section 6(4) was never contested in court by any provinces.
 

mf4361

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One more Internet 101: Wall of text is not gonna get anyone's attention. Write a TL;DR when needed
 

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mf4361 said:
Express entry stream has a form to sign and promise to live in the province....I wonder when will be the first court case nullifying it if it was used against new immigrants
Not really, you sign a "commitment to reside". This isn't really worth the paper it's printed on, since your situation can change at any moment after becoming a PR and based on federal PR rules you can then move anywhere you want in Canada. As mentioned above, the province would need to somehow prove you never intended to reside there during the application process. And of course proving intent is incredibly difficult and would require clear proofs like emails/recorded calls in which the applicant blatantly stated they had no intention to reside.

If the provinces wanted their agreements to hold any merit, they would need to change the wording to something more specific like "will reside for X years in province", make it a legal condition of PR, and get agreement from Federal PR level to have power to revoke PR status if condition is not met.

In terms of "credibility", IMO I very highly doubt CIC would ever even look at or care about this if the PR applied to sponsor any family members in the future. A PR moving from the province that nominated them, should have no impact on a future family class app in which the relationship of sponsor and applicant, and applicant's information, is the most important factor.
 

Hamid khan

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Can any one found that due to moved province PR status is revoke

No not at all

So why you people are wonder

If you find better job you are free to move

We came in Canada for better life not for only one provience
 

Tri-Cities

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Hamid khan said:
We came in Canada for better life not for only one provience
Well, do you understand the reason for PNP? No one says you have to stay in one Province forever but you're surposed to stay a few years. Applying for the PNP you might become a Nominee for THAT Province... What do you think why that is??


I know a couple that applied fpr PNP of Manitoba back in 2007. After their arrival they tried to settle - he was the main applicant - he hated the company he was working for (she had an open work permit) and they just didn't like nothing.

They wanted to move to BC and I remember they had to go through the BC PNP application process (again). They had a limited time (do not remember how much time they got on their hands) but they were lucky because of his trade.

A year later they became PR's of BC.

It sometimes seems that people have that sort of entitlement behavior, ignoring whatever they don't like, some don't even think about the consequences of their actions.

If you don't want to stay in the Province that nominated you for a while then chose another way to become a PR...oh wait, some of the PNP wouldn't make it as a "normal" PR applicant... ops.
 

Hamid khan

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Tri-Cities said:
Well, do you understand the reason for PNP? No one says you have to stay in one Province forever but you're surposed to stay a few years. Applying for the PNP you might become a Nominee for THAT Province... What do you think why that is??


I know a couple that applied fpr PNP of Manitoba back in 2007. After their arrival they tried to settle - he was the main applicant - he hated the company he was working for (she had an open work permit) and they just didn't like nothing.

They wanted to move to BC and I remember they had to go through the BC PNP application process (again). They had a limited time (do not remember how much time they got on their hands) but they were lucky because of his trade.

A year later they became PR's of BC.

It sometimes seems that people have that sort of entitlement behavior, ignoring whatever they don't like, some don't even think about the consequences of their actions.

If you don't want to stay in the Province that nominated you for a while then chose another way to become a PR...oh wait, some of the PNP wouldn't make it as a "normal" PR applicant... ops.

i didn't mean landing today and move tomorrow

i mean stay around a year

if you get better opportunity other province then why not move

if any question comes at citizenship time: at least you can tell you tried to but you couldn't so you moved
 

mf4361

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Tri-Cities said:
Well, do you understand the reason for PNP? No one says you have to stay in one Province forever but you're surposed to stay a few years. Applying for the PNP you might become a Nominee for THAT Province... What do you think why that is??


I know a couple that applied fpr PNP of Manitoba back in 2007. After their arrival they tried to settle - he was the main applicant - he hated the company he was working for (she had an open work permit) and they just didn't like nothing.

They wanted to move to BC and I remember they had to go through the BC PNP application process (again). They had a limited time (do not remember how much time they got on their hands) but they were lucky because of his trade.

A year later they became PR's of BC.

It sometimes seems that people have that sort of entitlement behavior, ignoring whatever they don't like, some don't even think about the consequences of their actions.

If you don't want to stay in the Province that nominated you for a while then chose another way to become a PR...oh wait, some of the PNP wouldn't make it as a "normal" PR applicant... ops.
It is your decision to either stay or leave. The law states it is legal to leave after you've landed.
 

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Rob_TO said:
Would be interesting to see if there is even 1 case in Canadian PNP immigration history, where someone's PR was revoked due to not staying in the province they got PNP PR from.
Not for revoking PR. But there was someone on this forum who was questioned during his Citizenship interview about why he moved so quickly after landing in Manitoba under PNP. He ended up getting an RQ. But I think eventually he got Citizenship after some delay. But his case had other complications so likely it is not just the PNP thing that caused the RQ... but it likely another log on the fire so to speak.
 

Tri-Cities

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mf4361 said:
It is your decision to either stay or leave. The law states it is legal to leave after you've landed.
He told me that he would have lost his work permit because at that point he wasn't a PR but only a Nominee of Manitoba. So like it or not, believe it or not, he (they) could NOT just move from Manitoba to BC.

Maybe PNP was a different story than it is today - I'm talking about a case from 2006 / 2007 -ish.

I was a Nominee in BC and it took about 15 month to become a PR and during that process I had to stay in BC - that's what I was told and others too.

...
 

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Tri-Cities said:
He told me that he would have lost his work permit because at that point he wasn't a PR but only a Nominee of Manitoba. So like it or not, believe it or not, he (they) could NOT just move from Manitoba to BC.

Maybe PNP was a different story than it is today - I'm talking about a case from 2006 / 2007 -ish.

I was a Nominee in BC and it took about 15 month to become a PR and during that process I had to stay in BC - that's what I was told and others too.

...
Completely different and not even comparable to one who lands as a PR. Once you're a PR, you would not need to go through the steps you mentioned if you wanted to move provinces.

During any qualifying time before you're a PR, is a whole other situation.
 

Leon

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I have heard before that immigration officers have told people that they must stay 2 years in their PNP province or 3 years or until they get citizenship or even forever. None of the above are true. There are no laws or regulations stating that.

The truth is, when applying under PNP, you sign a letter of intent to settle in your PNP province. This must be true when you apply and when you land. Otherwise you would be committing misrepresentation.

If you find the need or want to move after landing as a PR, you are free to do that. However, it would be courtesy on your part to not abuse the province that gave you PNP by at least trying your best to settle there.

As for legality and followups, the IO's are allowed to refuse people to land if they have a good reason to believe that they don't plan to go to their PNP province at all. After that, they are powerless. I have never heard of a PNP PR who lost it after having landed due to not going to or staying in their PNP province. I remember one case of a person who lost her PR due to other misrepresentation and it was mentioned during her appeal that she was a PNP applicant who never lived in her PNP province and used to show that she did not care to follow rules.
 

simoncanada

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Leon said:
I have heard before that immigration officers have told people that they must stay 2 years in their PNP province or 3 years or until they get citizenship or even forever. None of the above are true. There are no laws or regulations stating that.

The truth is, when applying under PNP, you sign a letter of intent to settle in your PNP province. This must be true when you apply and when you land. Otherwise you would be committing misrepresentation.

If you find the need or want to move after landing as a PR, you are free to do that. However, it would be courtesy on your part to not abuse the province that gave you PNP by at least trying your best to settle there.

As for legality and followups, the IO's are allowed to refuse people to land if they have a good reason to believe that they don't plan to go to their PNP province at all. After that, they are powerless. I have never heard of a PNP PR who lost it after having landed due to not going to or staying in their PNP province. I remember one case of a person who lost her PR due to other misrepresentation and it was mentioned during her appeal that she was a PNP applicant who never lived in her PNP province and used to show that she did not care to follow rules.

Excellent and very good useful information, thanks again thank you for your reply

i think Leon is the best
and excellent knowledge about it