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My expriences so far ... first two days in Toronto!!!

qorax

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toby said:
I suspect that the way one sees a country has a lot to do with one's personal viewpoint. I remember being in a town in Coats Rica, thinking it was dirty, noisy, depressing. I returned to that town a few years later, after living in Costa Rica and getting used to its ways, and thought "what have they done to this town? It is clean, not so noisy, and rather charming."

It was the same town; it was I who had changed.

I'm also reminded of the old joke about the foreigner who came to a Latin American town and asked the gas-station attendant what he thought of the neighbourhood the foreigner had just moved into. The gas attendant asked "what was your old neighborhood like?" The foreigner said "wonderful, friendly neighbors, clean air -- a real delight." The attendant said "well, your new neighbourhood is much the same."

A few days later a different foreigner came to the gas station, had moved into the same neighbourhood as the other foreigner, and asked the attendant what it was like. The attendant asked what his former neighbourhood had been like, and the foreigner replied "terrible, noisy inconsiderate neighbours, polluted air -- terrible." The attendant replied "well, your new neighbourhood is much the same." :)
Wonderful !
Thanx for posting it...


Qorax
 

CharlotteJ

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Whatever you guys say or comment, I don't know and I am all fine with any comments, that being negative and obnoxious or correct, sincere and honest, being you friendly or not, I am all fine with that, all I can say about Canada is that it is a place:

Where one can make friends!

Yes, the BIG HUGE difference between Canada and at least this tiny little nation where I now live, the Netherlands, is that it is a place where you can make friends. Here, nobody does care about meeting and greeting new people, they are afraid of foreigners and it is silly to think and know that ever since I am back, I am again considered a "foreigner"! I have to remind my colleagues at work most of the time that I am just as Dutch as they are!

People are so used to comfort here, that they don't need to bond together or connect to others, network as to not only make new friends, but who knows, maybe find a good job through a new connection they make, here, that system doesn't work well at all and is among the reasons why it is difficult to find friends, plus the fact that xenophobia is so huge here.

At work, this morning, I met two gentlemen from Cameron, they were speaking French and I was the only one who could speak French so they were so happy to hear me talk to them in their own language and we became friends. It reminded me of my Cameronian friend in Toronto, a new immigrant, still struggling with life there and trying to find a job and she is such a sweetheart!

In Canada, you can connect to many people from any corner of this planet, some good some bad, but it all depends on how you are and what kind of personality you do possess and in my case, despite all you might think, I 've made great friends who I miss everyday really truly.

Wish we could combine the very best of the two places though, so to create a paradise!

Wish we could see the economies pick up faster than ever again and so many of you and all of us can find good jobs and I really am fed up with this whole " Recession" thing!

We know the lowest unemployment rate in here, at 4,4% in fact, but you also need to speak the language with NO accent at all!

I guess that you can at least find a job in Canada even if you have an accent as long as you can communicate properly in English!

Anyway ...

Let's drop the whole Canada vs Europe thing and all, bla bla bla and just share good and valuable information here and your experiences too, like I 've asked a few times in the past again, write it here, tell us what you do, what you 've found and if you 've found a job ...

Ok, ... good luck to all ...

Yes, I do miss Toronto, but mostly my friends! ;)
 

cuds

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CharlotteJ said:
Yes, the BIG HUGE difference between Canada and at least this tiny little nation where I now live, the Netherlands, is that it is a place where you can make friends. Here, nobody does care about meeting and greeting new people, they are afraid of foreigners and it is silly to think and know that ever since I am back, I am again considered a "foreigner"! I have to remind my colleagues at work most of the time that I am just as Dutch as they are!

People are so used to comfort here, that they don't need to bond together or connect to others, network as to not only make new friends, but who knows, maybe find a good job through a new connection they make, here, that system doesn't work well at all and is among the reasons why it is difficult to find friends, plus the fact that xenophobia is so huge here.
Wish we could combine the very best of the two places though, so to create a paradise!
I can only say this is def Charlottes point of view ... I can only imagine what kind of people Charlotte comes in contact with in the Netherlands. I love the Netherlands and Canada, even more so I love the people in both places! I could not disagree more with what she types lol.
 

qorax

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CharlotteJ said:
Whatever it is and will be or whatever your attitude or look, believe me, it is and will always be WAY WAY WAY WAY better BETTER than where I live:

The Netherlands!!!

The Dutch truly think and assume they are the best of the entire world, deserve it all and should be given it all and whatever is not Dutch, isn't good, doesn't matter or won't be of much importance.

Try to be an immigrant like me who has adopted herself, adjusted herself, speaks the language fluentely and been working all her life and been paying taxes more than the average Dutch and yet again, I ll always be considered and told to be an " Allochtoon" and not an 'Autochtoon" ...

Here in The Netherlands, the media, the newspapers, the people at school, on the street, in the shops, at work, anywhere, really everywhere, always refer to you having other skin color and/or hair structure than blonde and blue eyes as " Allochtoon" ... and believe me using the word is as insulting as calling a black person a nigger which calls ferocious reactions across Canada, UK and/or USA, but here, they easily call you " Oh, that, the Allochtoon girl" ... yeah...

Don't complain, be happy, we are all Canadians of all color and range or age or relgion and should be smiling at each other and keep building a strong nation and economy all together and above all:

DON'T LIVE ALONGSIDE OF EACH OTHER, BUT WITH EACH OTHER! ;)
 

SFD

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Yes, I was thinking about that the 0ther day.

Where is Charlotte? Hope things are fine with her.

SFD
 

masterchief

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SFD said:
Yes, I was thinking about that the 0ther day.

Where is Charlotte? Hope things are fine with her.

SFD
yes even if i dont know the person here...i would like how's that person is going on with her life in Canada :)
 

SFD

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masterchief said:
yes even if i dont know the person here...i would like how's that person is going on with her life in Canada :)
The only person that can tell us is herself but...

Anyhow, we want the best for her no matter where she is. Holland or Canada....

I remember before getting my PRV that I spent lots of time checking on the website the process.. I don't do it that often.. Life changes a lot so our objectives.

Greeting

SFD
 

toby

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I believe Charlotte is now back in Holland, and has -- to judge from her lack of input here lately -- out her Canada experience behind her.
 

CharlotteJ

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toby said:
I believe Charlotte is now back in Holland, and has -- to judge from her lack of input here lately -- out her Canada experience behind her.
Hello Toby, Hello everyone, Hello Canada,
Hope all is well with ALL of you and really doing greatly and I am so sorry and please forgive me if I haven't had time to reply and update you guys with the latest from my neck of the woods.
It has been such a challenge to be back in Holland and I have been extremely busy ever since to settle in although we had safeguarded our house over here, but it wasn't easy to be back at a place where life is/was so different from busy Toronto.
I, really truly, found it and still do find it difficult to understand and to believe how much the Dutch, especially, the Dutch, can complain about all and everything while they get pampered so much and while life is so good over here by comparison.
Unemployment rate at slightly over 4,4% and saftey net services up and running greatly while mild temperatures and 5 weeks of holiday plus 8% Holiday allowance a year to all regardless of posiition and age at work is really something people should not take for granted! So yes, it was difficult, but I managed to fit in again, started to pay off some bills that were overdue and fix up things in and around the house plus looking for a job. I immediately found a job as a hostess at a 4 star hotel in the same village where I live and took the job as to just be employed while looking for another job options. in 5 weeks time I found a job as office manager at an International company in Amsterdam and all is well. I got an half year contract to start with and I am now going to have a 1 year contract and in the meantime, been so busy that needed to as our HR department to hire me an assistant. They did and I was allowed to select him/her myself.
Many candidates later and a lovely gril from China was hired, I found it fun to have an Asian colleague close to me but she couldn't cope with the fast pace of work and she left, then I hired another one, an Irish woman but she had to leave NL and back to Irleand to be with family and finally, I found a Dutch woman who could do the job and I was sure she won't leave ! :)
All is well, buying new stuff for the house that was totally empty when I came back and settling in nicely.
Have learned a lot from my Canadian experience and am using them to adjust to life over here and I hardly complain these days. :)
good salary, 5 weeks off a year, big house, free car from the company with unlimited mileage for all Europe and a few trips to Denmark, Ireland, UK and Italia for my job. and as trainings.
I do miss Toronto, yes, I do miss Canada, but not really for the way they hire people and for the way they treat each other sometimes. We all have fun here, when we go for lunch we can easily go and sit next to CEO's, although all from Swiss and Denmark and UK, we blend it all the time, no class system, no seperation and all is equal. life is good and I hope and wish you all would be having such life there too.
and if you know anybody who might be willing to live and work here, let me know .I might be able to find them jobs. Wish I had Canadian colleagues at work too :)
Toby, thank you for your note ... this way I answered your sweet nice and very kind Email that surprised me the most this morning. Lovely...
big hugs to all,
Charlotte
 

SFD

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CharlotteJ said:
Hello Toby, Hello everyone, Hello Canada,
Hope all is well with ALL of you and really doing greatly and I am so sorry and please forgive me if I haven't had time to reply and update you guys with the latest from my neck of the woods.
It has been such a challenge to be back in Holland and I have been extremely busy ever since to settle in although we had safeguarded our house over here, but it wasn't easy to be back at a place where life is/was so different from busy Toronto.
I, really truly, found it and still do find it difficult to understand and to believe how much the Dutch, especially, the Dutch, can complain about all and everything while they get pampered so much and while life is so good over here by comparison.
Unemployment rate at slightly over 4,4% and saftey net services up and running greatly while mild temperatures and 5 weeks of holiday plus 8% Holiday allowance a year to all regardless of posiition and age at work is really something people should not take for granted! So yes, it was difficult, but I managed to fit in again, started to pay off some bills that were overdue and fix up things in and around the house plus looking for a job. I immediately found a job as a hostess at a 4 star hotel in the same village where I live and took the job as to just be employed while looking for another job options. in 5 weeks time I found a job as office manager at an International company in Amsterdam and all is well. I got an half year contract to start with and I am now going to have a 1 year contract and in the meantime, been so busy that needed to as our HR department to hire me an assistant. They did and I was allowed to select him/her myself.
Many candidates later and a lovely gril from China was hired, I found it fun to have an Asian colleague close to me but she couldn't cope with the fast pace of work and she left, then I hired another one, an Irish woman but she had to leave NL and back to Irleand to be with family and finally, I found a Dutch woman who could do the job and I was sure she won't leave ! :)
All is well, buying new stuff for the house that was totally empty when I came back and settling in nicely.
Have learned a lot from my Canadian experience and am using them to adjust to life over here and I hardly complain these days. :)
good salary, 5 weeks off a year, big house, free car from the company with unlimited mileage for all Europe and a few trips to Denmark, Ireland, UK and Italia for my job. and as trainings.
I do miss Toronto, yes, I do miss Canada, but not really for the way they hire people and for the way they treat each other sometimes. We all have fun here, when we go for lunch we can easily go and sit next to CEO's, although all from Swiss and Denmark and UK, we blend it all the time, no class system, no seperation and all is equal. life is good and I hope and wish you all would be having such life there too.
and if you know anybody who might be willing to live and work here, let me know .I might be able to find them jobs. Wish I had Canadian colleagues at work too :)
Toby, thank you for your note ... this way I answered your sweet nice and very kind Email that surprised me the most this morning. Lovely...
big hugs to all,
Charlotte

Great to hear from you CharlotteJ,

The most important thing is that you feel good. We miss your e-mails as your expererience as any other it's very important to know...

I personally, think that no one can talk for nobody so your own experience taught me how to avoid some issues once getting into Canada.

I am back and forth, but as of next month, I will be moving permanently to Canada. My Three Children are doing great in Ontario and my wife is starting to do some volunteer work as an English Teacher for Newcomers..

Greetings

SFD
 

CharlotteJ

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Hello SFD,

Wonderful news to hear that you are doing good and soon will be moving forward towards more freedom, better education and above all lots of space to grow and hopefully to have your children to be growing up in a better place, not that the current one is bad but sure Canada is a better place for young children to grow up, educate and be part of the big wide World. After all, most people here and now and in future who plan for such move, do this eventually for their own children! so someday they can be who they want and never need to worry about anything, right? :)

I honestly have to say that I need some time to start writing here again given I can assure everybody what an impact my return has had on my own life due to the short stay in Canada and things I learnt there and the huge differences in all aspect of life between there and here!!!!!

Once I start to talk about these new findings and changes, you bet this whole tread will start to live its own life. I mean, really, before my move to Canada, I was way too naive as I now can look back and say I was! then in Canada I started to grow up and learn things I 'd never seen or experienced before and I was shocked, not by the culture, but by other aspects of life as discussed quite a lot over here, but when you return to your own place after such dramatic changes and encounter people, places and mindset as if nothing ever happens and all that is happening around the globe is happening to others and never causing havoc on your life bla bla bla, you start to think and sometimes I am disgusted by how silly people are, who stupid they can be and how much they really can complain for no reason at all!

I really have some harsh times at work as to smile and be kind to these Dutch colleagues who complain about the Coffee or the Weather all the time, while they only work from 9 to 4 and live close to work, have a company car, free, pay hardly much for internet, tv, phone, rent, bla bla bla, have 5 weeks of holiday and all paid as well and as soon as they feel a headach, they call in sick or complain about their hotel or holiday weather or the food oh gosh ... you name it! they work 5 minute overtime and they want full compensation etc.

I was like that too, a bit, myself, but no longer, not any more. Now I work and I don't take anyting for granted! I come home late, encounter my neighbours are having dinner and already at home and doing their own chores looking at me with awe and amazed that I leave home at 7 and come back at 7 and work 60 km away from home as wel! They ask me how I can keep up to par with such life and all, but they have no idea how difficult life elsewhere can be like in Canada and how much suffering there can be!

I see you guyes, hear your stories, remind me of those of you who have been through much worse in life and now also trying to find your way and then am thankful and try not to complain! but just to adjust and be a survivor. Now, being a survivor in a first class nation that is so lazy like hell, isn't such a big deal though!

And I hate the fact that I hear my neighbours mouth talk bad about people from Poland, Ukraine, I don't know wherever who is not from here while I do have them at work and see how good they are, how hard they work and how flexibel they are, I 've seen many of many colors and nations in Toronto too who want to work hard but have no work, can't find one and nobody does care about their talents or they abilities either but they don't complain and start low and get to somewhere good eventually too! ...

Gosh ... it is so much I didn't know and I now know, so many thing I never saw but I saw and now see ... such a big wide gap between two first class nations in so many ways ...

I do regret the fact that sadly, still to this day, my surroundings here isn't that colorful as there. Now I appreciate it more, I want it to be a bit more vibrant as there, I regret that being a foreigner here is that you have to integrate and shut up and don't say much about yourself, do not do that what you like and be like the rest, boring! isn't it?

There is no Halloween, no Thanksgiving, no Labour Day, not Veteran's Day, no Canada Day, no this no that! ... just the regular stuff and if there is any, it is only in Amsterdam on a much smaller scale! tell people you are from India or China or I don't know where else and they will run away. Distances are much wider here, while on the other hand, if you can speak the language nicely and live here for some time, you can find a job in way that is honest and is tailored to your education as I see it also at my own work. That regardless of age and race or whatever, if you have the right degree and want to get in, they do offer you a good position regardless. No entry level but on your own level! .... but then again, you are new, at work and in a new city, and it won't be easy to make friends. Colleagues go home and forget about you, you are back at home and neighbors don't know you and aren't interested either and the rest of the people doesn't care much either because you look different. But in Toronto, no, such won't happen! you make friend with whoever you want and you will be whoever you want.

Here ... you get money, peace, work, fun and a big home, but also loneliness and will be subject to boredom!

Anyway ... wish we had the two of both worlds combined.

I therefore did my best to hire a Chinese girl from China who was a newcomer and I did, but she sadly couldn't cope with the job and much enjoyed the Irish woman later too ... ... if I have to hire again, you bet I will first look for a "newcomer" rather than an indiginous one! ;)

Canada was the best school I could imagine and hope to be back there soon again as to study and work for short while and be back again whenever I want and can afford it. LOL

good luck to all of you
 

PG

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Dec 21, 2010
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Great to have you back in the forum CharlotteJ!

I guess you have learned a lot from the most worthy "Canadian Experience". Thank you for "daring" to share your feelings and emotions :)
Have a good start in Holland, will love to read from you in future.

I hope if I come to Holland you will hire me :)
 

toby

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Charlotte:

Could we correctly sum up your view of Holland, especially the better work conditions compared to those in Canada, as: "It would be a great country if it weren't for the Dutch"?