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Mistake on Physical Presence Calculator

Discussion in 'Citizenship' started by egyptbasha, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Hi Canada Visa,

    I made a terrible mistake of forgetting to include a vacation on my physical presence calculator and unfortunately I did not provide myself enough cushion to accommodate this mistake. Taking the mistake into account, I would be 9 days away from the required 1095 days.

    I received an invitation to write my citizenship exam and interview on June 15 (this Saturday). I only found out about my mistake when I translated my passport stamps this week and realized what I forgot to include on my physical presence calculator.

    I am planning to bring with me to the interview the following:
    A formal apology letter and an updated physical presence calculator (which will show that I am not eligible).

    Has anyone had a similar experience? What does everyone think I should do? Should I bring any additional documents?

    Appreciate your input, whatever it may be!

  2. You can check some of @dpenabill detailed messages regarding similar issues.

    But long story short, if you're below the 1095 days threshold, the best thing to do is to withdraw the application and start again. This will save you months if not years down the line, and will avoid you a hearing with a citizenship judge.
    You can clarify this with the citizenship officer during the interview.
  3. As @Seym suggests, withdrawing the application is in order.

    No real practical options: Acknowledge; apologize/explain; and withdraw the application.

    Longer explanation: I do not give advice but the situation is rather straight-forward. I agree that it is a good idea to go to the test and interview, and be prepared to acknowledge the error, and the effect that has on your presence calculation, and express a desire to withdraw the application. No need to take much with you . . . there is NO discretion to waive the failure to meet the actual physical presence requirement AS OF THE DAY YOU MADE THE APPLICATION.

    Since you made an application submitting a presence calculation that on its face appears to meet the requirements, IRCC cannot summarily deny the application. BUT there is NO point to proceeding with it any further, since eventually IRCC will either deny the application or refer your application to a Citizenship Judge who likewise will NOT have discretion to approve you for a grant of citizenship if you are at all short of meeting the minimum physical presence requirement.
  4. Thank you both. I will proceed to go to the test and interview then.
  5. Hi there! I did the same mistake :(

    can you please tell me how did your interview go? I have my test next month!

    many thanks for your help!!!
  6. Hi!
    Can you let me know what happened in your case? I haven’t realized that I made a mistake and I passed the test and now I’m going back and forth with the office regarding a couple of travels I totally forgot to declare. DO you think i will be denied? Will i have to retake the test again?

  7. Hi there! a friend of mine did the same mistake , but the officer updated her physical calculator during the interview and everything went alright. but she had enough days after she declared the missed travels. can you please tell me how did they figure out you are missing some travels? did they check your passport stamps? or they already had these information.

    if you have any questions, please replay back I can ask my friend for you.

    best of luck!
  8. You may be issued a formal Residency Questionnaire of one sort or another. It depends on your credibility and just how close you are to minimum requirements.
  9. @CherineAmr and @Pasar86

    As the previous discussion emphasized, the main thing is whether or not the applicant still meets the minimum physical presence requirement AFTER deducting any known absences not included with the applicant's initial presence calculation. There is no discretion to grant citizenship if the applicant fails to prove AT LEAST 1095 days of actual presence during the five year eligibility period.

    Thus, the main effect of overlooking a trip or more abroad, or otherwise making a mistake that reduces the credit for days present in Canada, DEPENDS on whether the number of days involved is more than the margin above the minimum the applicant had in the initial application. For example, applicants have reported failing to report weeks abroad, but they applied with a large enough margin over the minimum they still met the requirement . . . some proceeded soon to take the oath, no problems, no delays. Others report they needed to submit more information or evidence so that IRCC could verify they were sufficiently present in Canada to meet the requirements.

    The latter leads to the credibility question.

    In particular, beyond the direct impact of recalculating the number of days given recognized omissions, the impact is largely a matter of credibility depending on the nature, scope, and number of errors. IRCC is well aware that people make mistakes, and in most cases IRCC does NOT punish applicants for minor, unintentional mistakes. But obviously, mistakes reveal the applicant was not entirely an accurate reporter of facts, so any significant error can result in compromising the applicant's credibility no matter how innocent the mistake. The more and bigger the discrepancies, the more IRCC MUST doubt the applicant's information about time in Canada versus time outside Canada.

    And of course the two are related. The smaller the margin over the minimum, the more scrutiny IRCC is likely to employ in response to mistakes, the more IRCC may make requests for additional documents . . . ranging from requesting this or that particular document, up to issuing the applicant the full blown Residency Questionnaire. This makes total sense. For an applicant who applied with two hundred or more days extra, above the minimum, if IRCC identifies or suspects the applicant missed a few days here or there but does not otherwise doubt the applicant's information, it is easy for IRCC to proceed with a decision granting citizenship. Despite some mistakes it is obvious the applicant met the requirements.

    In contrast, if the applicant applied with a rather small margin over the minimum, such as just thirty or forty extra days, and IRCC apprehends there may have been a week or three more abroad than reported, that brings the applicant a lot closer to falling short . . . and thus puts a lot more pressure on IRCC to FOR-SURE verify the applicant met the minimum presence requirement.

    Which leads to applicants who applied with virtually no margin (not sure why, but there seems to be more than a few who do this), less than ten days extra. Obviously, if IRCC discerns such an applicant made mistakes, that puts a lot of pressure on IRCC to get verification. Again, IRCC has NO DISCRETION to grant citizenship if the applicant falls even ONE DAY short.

    Overall the impact of small or few errors is usually NOT a problem . . . unless the applicant had little or no margin over the minimum. Worst case scenario, usually, is the applicant will be asked to provide additional information and documents to help IRCC better verify the applicant's presence. Beyond that, how it goes depends on the extent to which the mistakes raise questions about the applicant's ability to be an accurate reporter (that is, the applicant's credibility), ranging from having little impact on how IRCC perceives the applicant's credibility, to the more egregious scenarios in which IRCC might suspect intentional misrepresentation (fraud).

    So it matters whether
    -- the interviewer has the impression the applicant is honest but just made a minor, unintentional mistake or two, or
    -- the interviewer apprehends the applicant made significant mistakes and, perhaps, generally did not make an effort to get the information right and cannot be relied on beyond what is corroborated by objective information (such as the CBSA Travel History), or
    -- the interviewer suspects the applicant was not honest​

    There are many other factors which can influence what IRCC officials perceive about the applicant.

    Ultimately it is the applicant's burden to PROVE to IRCC's satisfaction that the applicant met the requirements. If IRCC is not satisfied by what the applicant submits, then the case will be referred to a Citizenship Judge to weigh the facts and evidence, and interview the applicant so as to directly judge the applicant's credibility.
  10. Thank you so much for taking the time in explaining this, much appreciated.
    In my case, I made a mistake to count my days starting from the day I got the visa to Canada and not from the first date I entered Canada. I haven't realized this up until the officer explained to me in his letter. I had a month safe margin but this mistake is more than this amount so now I'm 3 days below the illegibility. I redid the calculator and I apologized and acknowledged my mistake and I wrote that I hope the judge will still accept my application and send it back to the officer yesterday. Now I'm surfing the internet and I read that maybe withdrawing my application might be a better option. What do you think? At this point would my request be approved? Would it take more time to withdraw and re-apply rather than leave it for refusal? I'm stuck and don't know where to move from here.


  11. Thanks a lot for your reply. I'm 3 days below the requirement. I wrote back the letter to the officer today acknowledging that I did a mistake in counting; I counted my physical presence from the date I was granted my Student visa and not from the first day I entered Canada :( I totally didn't notice!

  12. Thanks for taking the time to answer me. When the officer saw my passports he couldn't track the stamps so he asked for travel history and this is when I realized that I have counted my physical presence from the date I was granted my student visa and not from my first day I entered Canada. I completely didn't notice this mistake up until the officer pointed out in his letter. Now I'm 3 days below the eligibility, I sent him a letter yesterday with the correct calculation and acknowledging that I did a mistake. Do you think I should withdraw my application now? Or wait for the judge to refuse my application and then reapply? Which one saves me more time and safer to do?


  13. If you are now below the minimum eligibility for citizenship, there is no other option that IRCC has except to refuse you.
    You can't ask them to be generous and let you through... They have no choice if you now have less than 1095 days.
  14. Hi
    What should I do now? Should I ask to withdraw the application or should I wait for the judge refusal? I read that the withdrawal can lead to RQ the next time I apply but I also don’t know how long would the judge take to refuse. Which one is easier and would take less time?
    Also when should I apply again? Do I have to wait for the refusal letter?

  15. I don't think that it will get to a judge. You seem to be ineligible at the legislation level, so it will simply be denied.
    You are going to have to reapply anyway. It's up to you how to handle the sequence of events.

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