Marriage and Birth in Canada, Outland PR

[akayalto1]

I'm Canadian, born and raised. I have been out of the country for a majority of the past 6 years (mainly living and studying in India, however I'm currently in Italy for the past 2 months. I've been out of Canada since last November, so almost a year now) I'm here in Italy now, on my british passport (father born in scotland), living with my fiancee (engaged in may in India) We've been together for 1.5 years now, moving between Italy, Canada, and the last 6 months in India, now here for the past 2 months. I was planning to stay here and live for some time, and then we were trying to decide where we wanted to live, either Italy or Canada. We just found out that she is pregnant! (5 weeks) We would like to move to Canada and have the baby there. However, from my research, it appears like a bad idea/risky to get married and then try to enter on a visitor visa as they would most likely reject her at immigration.

My current plan:
If we enter together, but not married, and she is on a eTA (Visitor) with a return ticket and proof of financial support for herself, we can then get married in Canada and immediately start an outland application for PR for her. When the 6 months of her visitor visa is almost finished, we can apply for an extension on the grounds that she has already applied for PR and also she won't be able to fly as she will be 7-8 months pregnant at that point.

So, after all my research this is the plan that I have come up with. I wanted to know what you thought about it and if you see any hurdles or maybe I'm missing something big/important.

I realise that she won't have health coverage until she gets approval for PR which will most likely be after the birth, but we've looked into private insurance incase of emergency, and also want to have a midwife, which is covered by Ontario health. These seem like manageable options as of now.

The main issue I see here is that fact that she would be entering Canada in December/January (hopefully with me, unless that is an issue), with the knowledge that she is pregnant, and with the intention to marry me once we are there and apply for PR through my sponsorship. Do you think that they might reject her if they know that we are engaged and planning to marry in Canada? Or if they might ask her if she is pregnant?

The other option that we are considering is to marry here in Italy immediately and apply for PR as soon as possible outland, and then still try to enter Canada on a visitor visa in december/january, as waiting for the PR would be too long and she will give birth in 8 months. This still seems a bit risky as they will assume that she won't leave.

I really wish we could just be completely honest and deliver our baby the way we want in the place that we choose. I really thought I had more freedom/support in Canada, although I admit I never looked into it or thought about a scenario like this! Now I'm just looking for advice and the right way to have my family in Canada

Anyways, I really would appreciate any thought or help you may be able to offer as we're in a pretty intense and tough situation right now, not really knowing what to do. Hoping to hear back from you soon. Thank you for you time. Hope someone can help!

 

[scylla]

You should be fine as long as she is not visibly pregnant when she arrives in Canada. If she is visibly pregnant - this could cause issues at the border (or it might not).

 

[canadianwoman]

What passport does she have? Indian? Or some other as well?

If she is from India and does not have any other passport, she needs a TRV to enter Canada. To get one, she has to show proof she will leave Canada. If she is Italian, she can enter Canada just with the eTA. If she is Italian, she will most likely be allowed in as a visitor with no problem.

To get a PR visa, the applicant has to have a medical exam, which includes a chest x-ray. Most doctors advise to wait until after birth for this; some will do it while the woman is pregnant, but it is really not advised. She can do the rest of the exam, then have the x-ray after the birth. This will delay the processing. Or she could just wait until after the baby is born to send in the application.

 

[akayalto1]

Thank you for your advice.....She is Italian, so she just needs the new eTA to enter as a visitor. We plan on travelling when she is 3-4 months pregnant, which is this December, January.

Do you think that she should also have a return ticket booked, or she would still be allowed to enter with only the one way ticket and say that she is going to buy the return ticket later?

Also is this more risky if she is travelling with me and we say that we are together as a couple? Is it better to not mention that we are engaged already?

 

[scylla]

Do you think that she should also have a return ticket booked, or she would still be allowed to enter with only the one way ticket and say that she is going to buy the return ticket later?

Yes - she should have a return ticket. They are typically cheaper than one way.

 

[akayalto1]

scylla thanks for the advice. I assume that they will ask her the usual questions, what are you doing here, where are you staying, when are you going home, etc. Is it better to not mention that we are engaged? Just that we are together and she is coming to visit for 4-5 months?

 

[akayalto1]

What passport does she have? Indian? Or some other as well?

If she is from India and does not have any other passport, she needs a TRV to enter Canada. To get one, she has to show proof she will leave Canada. If she is Italian, she can enter Canada just with the eTA. If she is Italian, she will most likely be allowed in as a visitor with no problem.

To get a PR visa, the applicant has to have a medical exam, which includes a chest x-ray. Most doctors advise to wait until after birth for this; some will do it while the woman is pregnant, but it is really not advised. She can do the rest of the exam, then have the x-ray after the birth. This will delay the processing. Or she could just wait until after the baby is born to send in the application.

She is Italian, so she can enter on just an eTA. I've read up on the medical exam issue while pregnant. So if we send in PR the application just after we are married, she won't be able to get her first approval, which would help us to get her OHIP. So it's safe to stay that we need private insurance for her until a couple months after the birth. Thoughts?

 

[canadianwoman]

Yes, it would be better to get health insurance for her. Unfortunately, they usually won't cover existing conditions, such as pregnancy. She might be better off giving birth in Italy, supposing she has health coverage there.

 

[akayalto1]

Yes, it would be better to get health insurance for her. Unfortunately, they usually won't cover existing conditions, such as pregnancy. She might be better off giving birth in Italy, supposing she has health coverage there.

We can get private health insurance that even covers pregnancy complications, however because she is already pregnant, the insurance does not cover the last 9 weeks of the pregnancy and the birth. Even though we are planning on having a home birth, the risk of something happening and her having to go to the hospital to give birth or have a c section, would mean having to pay 4-10000 dollars.

As for OHIP, I've read elsewhere in threads that are related to pregnancy, that once you land the date starts for 3 month waiting period for OHIP in Ontario, and after that you are covered. One of the other factors is that you have applied and have AIP for a PR, which can take a long time. Do you know the fine print about, the AIP needed to be eligible for OHIP, and the other factor is the fine print about pre-existing conditions. Does pregnancy fall under this, as I've read that it's not considered a medical condition. Is there a way to read about that on the OHIP site?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[canuck_in_uk]

As for OHIP, I've read elsewhere in threads that are related to pregnancy, that once you land the date starts for 3 month waiting period for OHIP in Ontario, and after that you are covered. One of the other factors is that you have applied and have AIP for a PR, which can take a long time. Do you know the fine print about, the AIP needed to be eligible for OHIP, and the other factor is the fine print about pre-existing conditions. Does pregnancy fall under this, as I've read that it's not considered a medical condition. Is there a way to read about that on the OHIP site?

AIP, Approval In Principle, is step one for inland applications; the current posted processing time to receive AIP is 16 months.

Many people have tried to get OHIP while waiting for their outland app to process but I don't believe that many have been successful. There are a few older threads about the topic that you should try searching for.

Realistically, you should plan that she will not get OHIP until 3 months after she lands as a PR and so won't have coverage for the birth.

 

[akayalto1]

AIP, Approval In Principle, is step one for inland applications; the current posted processing time to receive AIP is 16 months.

Many people have tried to get OHIP while waiting for their outland app to process but I don't believe that many have been successful. There are a few older threads about the topic that you should try searching for.

Realistically, you should plan that she will not get OHIP until 3 months after she lands as a PR and so won't have coverage for the birth.

Thanks for the advice. Seems unrealistic then to assume that she will be able to get OHIP with either Inland or Outland applications.

I have been searching for the threads, but it's hard to know if they are applicable especially if they are from a while ago, and it seems like nobody that's posted has been in the same situation as me.

I did read however, especially about going to another province that gives healthcare immediately that a pregnant person can still get coverage, and if you land early enough in the pregnancy, even in ontario you only have to wait 3 months from your landing date. That would, I assume, be with the already approved AIP for the PR or a completely valid PR.

Just to help clarify, is there a AIP stage for outland applications?

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Thanks for the advice. Seems unrealistic then to assume that she will be able to get OHIP with either Inland or Outland applications.

I did read however, especially about going to another province that gives healthcare immediately that a pregnant person can still get coverage, and if you land early enough in the pregnancy, even in ontario you only have to wait 3 months from your landing date. That would, I assume, be with the already approved AIP for the PR or a completely valid PR.

Just to help clarify, is there a AIP stage for outland applications?

Honestly, yes, it is unrealistic either way that she will have OHIP in time for the birth.

As far as I know, Alberta is the only province where she can get coverage right away as just a visitor. You would need to live there for at least 6 months after the birth or AHCIP could determine that you used the system for to get coverage for the birth and go after you to repay the charges.

Outland applications have Sponsor Approval, SA, which is different from AIP.

 

[akayalto1]

Honestly, yes, it is unrealistic either way that she will have OHIP in time for the birth.

As far as I know, Alberta is the only province where she can get coverage right away as just a visitor. You would need to live there for at least 6 months after the birth or AHCIP could determine that you used the system for to get coverage for the birth and go after you to repay the charges.

Outland applications have Sponsor Approval, SA, which is different from AIP.

Thanks for clarifying. To clarify further, outland application have SA, sponsor Approval, but that doesn't mean that "Citizenship and Immigration Canada has confirmed that you meet the eligibility requirements to apply for permanent residence in Canada", correct? Because if you are applying Outland, you are either not in Canada while you wait, or you are just visiting and not considered a resident. Correct?

 

[Rob_TO]

I realise that she won't have health coverage until she gets approval for PR which will most likely be after the birth, but we've looked into private insurance incase of emergency, and also want to have a midwife, which is covered by Ontario health. These seem like manageable options as of now.

As I mentioned in your other thread, midwives are in very high demand in Ontario. If she doesn't arrive in Canada until several months into the pregnancy and then tries to find a midwife, you may find the midwives with offices in your area are all completely booked. You need to be in Canada and contact them as soon as possible to finding out you're pregnant, and even then there's a chance you may go on waiting list.

 

[akayalto1]

As I mentioned in your other thread, midwives are in very high demand in Ontario. If she doesn't arrive in Canada until several months into the pregnancy and then tries to find a midwife, you may find the midwives with offices in your area are all completely booked. You need to be in Canada and contact them as soon as possible to finding out you're pregnant, and even then there's a chance you may go on waiting list.

Yes, I've already contact a few midwife groups in Toronto and there is a couple still available, so if we make this decision now I think we will be covered. As I wrote in my other thread, we are still concerned about the worst case scenario and having some complications during the birth and having to spend 5-10K dollars for a birth. Especially when we can have it for free here in Italy. The scales are fairly balanced for pros and cons in our situation, so it makes it a tough decision. Thanks