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Maintaining RO whilst abroad and unable to return to Canada due to Covid-19

eagerbeaver!

Newbie
May 13, 2020
1
0
Goodday,

I am a PR of Canada and currently in possession of a PR travel card expiring in March 2022. Based on my personal records I will need to be in Canada by the middle of June 2020 in order to accumulate sufficient residency days to renew my PR travel card in 2022. I am currently living abroad for work.

The country I am in has closed its borders to combat Covid-19 since March this year. I am concerned that the travel ban and scarcity of affordable flights will affect my ability to travel back to Canada and serve my time in order to maintain my residency. As a PR holder I am not prevented from entering Canada. My initial plan was to travel to Canada in April this year, which would have allowed me to serve my residency requirement with weeks to spare in the event I need to travel outside Canada for personal reasons before renewal is due in 2022.

I do not want to run the risk of losing my residency in Canada but I am afraid I cant travel until the travel ban is lifted where I am. I am also concerned that I have lost any 'spare days' that would have allowed me some travel leeway before the PR card expires in 2022. What are my options?

Thank you for your time and stay safe everyone.
 

Bs65

VIP Member
Mar 22, 2016
12,306
2,156
As far as aware there has been nothing published formally to waive any of the residency obligation requirements due to COVID.

On the positive side at least you have a valid PR card so no need to interact with IRCC for couple years and you could travel back when flights are available. Can only speculate but would hope CBSA to be a bit more lenient in not reporting anyone who could not travel or unwilling to at this time.

This obviously wouldn’t mean a guarantee or a free pass for months and months or for example ability to travel in and out where someone either hasn’t met or will fail the RO at some point . If the latter then only option once back would be stay put until compliant or for 2 years if already failed before applying to renew a PR card.

Again speculation but IRCC likely consider the 2 out of 5 RO generous so where someone reaches a point where to meet same is marginal then whilst COVID might lead to some leniency they might also take the view the whole point of immigration is to live in Canada.

Work outside of Canada as assume you know does not provide any RO relief unless assigned abroad on a temporary basis by a Canadian employer.

Above only my personal view , others can comment or disagree.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,386
1,511
OVERALL:

So far it appears UNLIKELY there will be any change made to the PR Residency Obligation itself.

BUT for PRs asserting there are H&C reasons, pursuant to which they should be allowed to keep PR status despite failing to comply with the RO, obviously the impact of covid-19 is a factor which will be taken into consideration. If it is relevant, and to the extent it is relevant.

Overall, subject to all the vagaries which can affect the individual case, it seems likely, maybe even quite likely, that PRs who fall short of RO compliance by a margin reasonably related to the impact of covid-19 will have less risk of losing PR status. That is, it is likely there will be some leniency derived from consideration of the impact this pandemic has in the INDIVIDUAL case.


Some Longer Explanatory Observations:

For PRs affected by events related to the covid-19 pandemic, we do NOT KNOW to what extent Canada might implement any change in policies or practices which will offer some additional relief from the PR Residency Obligation, beyond that already inherent in current policies and practices. IF ANY.

DEPENDING on what happens in the coming months, recognizing we still do NOT KNOW how the rest of this year will unfold or what the full impact of this pandemic will be . . .

. . . but assuming travel restrictions are largely lifted and activity in general returns to some semblance of pre-covid normalcy within the next several months, by fall say . . .

. . . THEN it seems LIKELY that there will NOT be any modification of the Residency Obligation itself but rather the Canadian government will take into account, in the individual case, on a case-by-case basis, whether the particular PR should be allowed to keep PR status despite a failure to comply with the Residency Obligation, and make this determination taking into account circumstances related to the impact of the covid-19 crisis IN COMBINATION with any other H&C reasons which might weigh in favour of the individual PR being allowed to keep PR status . . . again, DESPITE having failed to comply with the rather generous and flexible Residency Obligation.

Which is actually what the current law REQUIRES.

Thus, for any PR whose compliance with the RO may be affected by circumstances related to covid-19, the PR RO itself allows the PR a lot of flexibility which should accommodate temporary delays in returning to Canada . . . PRs are allowed to be outside Canada for up to three years in five. Beyond that, consistent with the applicable law, current policy and practice requires officials to take into consideration many factors which may justify the PR keeping PR status despite failing to meet the RO, and of course this will (must) include consideration of covid-19 related circumstances.

How the latter will influence the decision-making will quite likely DEPEND on the individual PR's situation. Too many variables, way, way too many variables, to attempt enumerating even a sample of how this or that particular circumstance might affect whether a specific PR is allowed to keep PR status despite failing to comply with the RO.

That said, some of the usual factors will obviously continue to have significant influence:
-- Ratio of days in Canada to number of days outside Canada, or as described another way, the extent to which the PR falls short of being in compliance​
-- Extent of residential ties in Canada​
-- And, in respect to accommodating the impact of covid-19 itself, how soon the PR returned to Canada once travel restrictions are lifted​

But of course there are many, many other factors which will influence how it goes in the individual case. It is less certain, but my sense is that whether or not the PR is a relatively new immigrant (less than or not much more than five years since becoming a PR), can be a significant factor. For those who have been a PR considerably longer than five years, being outside Canada more than three of the previous five years tends to emphasize they have not PERMANENTLY settled in Canada, and thus are probably more likely to be seen as LESS deserving of keeping PR status. In a similar context, my sense is that the PR who was living abroad before the covid-19 situation developed will face a higher RISK of not being allowed relief for a failure to comply with the RO despite claims the covid-19 situation delayed his or her return to Canada.


Some Further Observations:

Remember, changing policies and practices is one thing, and the government has quite wide latitude to do this. AS LONG AS the changes are consistent with the applicable law.

Changing the law is an entirely different matter. Changing the law to accommodate particular events or circumstances is unusual. Changing the law governing the PR RO is NOT likely. So any change in policy or practice will need to be consistent with the current law.

It warrants some emphasis that the law, rules, policies, and practices already in place, in regards to the obligations of Permanent Residents to live in Canada (the meaning of the terms, "Permanent Resident," warrant emphasis: having PR status is about being a RESIDENT in Canada, PERMANENTLY), are structured to accommodate a very wide range of possible human experiences AND also allow for some additional exceptions in extraordinary circumstances. Thus, it is highly likely that rather than implement any formal modification of policy or practices, the Canadian government will continue to apply the current law, rules, policies, and practices, but do so in recognition of the impact this year's events have had in the individual case.

In regards to which it warrants a reminder that the foremost factor is that the PR RO itself allows PRs a great deal of individual flexibility in how each adapts to all sorts of stuff-happens circumstances which might interfere with their following through in settling PERMANENTLY in Canada, allowing PRs to be outside Canada much longer than they are actually IN Canada. Allowing up to three years absence during the first five years, and even after that allowing PRs to keep status so long as they have been present in Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years.

Beyond that, the current law, rules, policies, and practices will allow a PR to keep PR status DESPITE failing to comply with the very liberal, flexible two-in-five year rule, if there are EXTRAORDINARY circumstances which, in effect, justify allowing the PR to keep PR status. The impact of covid-19 will almost certainly be a significant factor considered. This will most likely be the relief valve which will allow many PRs a modest, potentially significantly margin in which their breach of the RO will not result in the loss of PR status.


Goodday,

I am a PR of Canada and currently in possession of a PR travel card expiring in March 2022. Based on my personal records I will need to be in Canada by the middle of June 2020 in order to accumulate sufficient residency days to renew my PR travel card in 2022. I am currently living abroad for work.

The country I am in has closed its borders to combat Covid-19 since March this year. I am concerned that the travel ban and scarcity of affordable flights will affect my ability to travel back to Canada and serve my time in order to maintain my residency. As a PR holder I am not prevented from entering Canada. My initial plan was to travel to Canada in April this year, which would have allowed me to serve my residency requirement with weeks to spare in the event I need to travel outside Canada for personal reasons before renewal is due in 2022.

I do not want to run the risk of losing my residency in Canada but I am afraid I cant travel until the travel ban is lifted where I am. I am also concerned that I have lost any 'spare days' that would have allowed me some travel leeway before the PR card expires in 2022. What are my options?

Thank you for your time and stay safe everyone.
 

lossada

Hero Member
Sep 5, 2017
201
42
Goodday,

I am a PR of Canada and currently in possession of a PR travel card expiring in March 2022. Based on my personal records I will need to be in Canada by the middle of June 2020 in order to accumulate sufficient residency days to renew my PR travel card in 2022. I am currently living abroad for work.

The country I am in has closed its borders to combat Covid-19 since March this year. I am concerned that the travel ban and scarcity of affordable flights will affect my ability to travel back to Canada and serve my time in order to maintain my residency. As a PR holder I am not prevented from entering Canada. My initial plan was to travel to Canada in April this year, which would have allowed me to serve my residency requirement with weeks to spare in the event I need to travel outside Canada for personal reasons before renewal is due in 2022.

I do not want to run the risk of losing my residency in Canada but I am afraid I cant travel until the travel ban is lifted where I am. I am also concerned that I have lost any 'spare days' that would have allowed me some travel leeway before the PR card expires in 2022. What are my options?

Thank you for your time and stay safe everyone.
you landed 2017?
when did you arrive at that country?
have you been outside Canada almost 1 year because corona virus?
are you from India?
when you will arrive just stay as Permanent Person inside Canada
 

steaky

VIP Member
Nov 11, 2008
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606
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you landed 2017?
when did you arrive at that country?
have you been outside Canada almost 1 year because corona virus?
are you from India?
when you will arrive just stay as Permanent Person inside Canada
Are you from outer space? Covid 19 began in December last year. As of now, not even close to 1 year anniversary!
 

Copingwithlife

Champion Member
Jul 29, 2018
2,069
736
Earth
Goodday,

I am a PR of Canada and currently in possession of a PR travel card expiring in March 2022. Based on my personal records I will need to be in Canada by the middle of June 2020 in order to accumulate sufficient residency days to renew my PR travel card in 2022. I am currently living abroad for work.

The country I am in has closed its borders to combat Covid-19 since March this year. I am concerned that the travel ban and scarcity of affordable flights will affect my ability to travel back to Canada and serve my time in order to maintain my residency. As a PR holder I am not prevented from entering Canada. My initial plan was to travel to Canada in April this year, which would have allowed me to serve my residency requirement with weeks to spare in the event I need to travel outside Canada for personal reasons before renewal is due in 2022.

I do not want to run the risk of losing my residency in Canada but I am afraid I cant travel until the travel ban is lifted where I am. I am also concerned that I have lost any 'spare days' that would have allowed me some travel leeway before the PR card expires in 2022. What are my options?

Thank you for your time and stay safe everyone.
Your options are to plan to be in Canada to comply with your RO
If one can not arrange their affairs to be in a country they CHOSE to live in , in a 2 out of 5 year period , then they seriously want to take a hard look, and think ,”
Is Canada really for me ?” You refer to your time you have to be in Canada as “ time served “, time served is for prison sentences, not to a country you chose to apply and live in. 2/5 is EXTREMELY generous . I can’t fathom the Government being anymore generous. Plan accordingly
 

lossada

Hero Member
Sep 5, 2017
201
42
Are you from outer space? Covid 19 began in December last year. As of now, not even close to 1 year anniversary!
almost one year not working? amazing
you did not answer my questions.
I am not from out space, I think you are.
since I became permanent resident, I've never visit India.
stay away Canada for ever, Permanent Resident is to live inside Canada,,, when people is going to understand it?
Always it is the same history. leaving other without the opportunity to be in Canada.
Always I read: I loose my passport, I forgot to declare my wife. I had a emergency,,, 10 years later,,, need to restore the permanent residency.
even people asking help visiting India
Good look.
 
Last edited:

steaky

VIP Member
Nov 11, 2008
9,637
606
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almost one year not working? amazing
you did not answer my questions.
I am not from out space, I think you are.
since I became permanent resident, I've never visit India.
stay away Canada for ever, Permanent Resident is to live inside Canada,,, when people is going to understand it?
Always it is the same history. leaving other without the opportunity to be in Canada.
Always I read: I loose my passport, I forgot to declare my wife. I had a emergency,,, 10 years later,,, need to restore the permanent residency.
even people asking help visiting India
Good look.
YOU almost a year being unemployed? Good for you! But how come you could forget to declare your wife? What emergency that takes a decade? Are there any grounds for H & C for restoring PR?
 

Nqur

Star Member
Feb 8, 2018
61
1
Category........
NOC Code......
4163
App. Filed.......
20-06-2018
AOR Received.
25-05-2018
Hi Everyone,

I have a question regarding PR Residency Requirements.

I was living in Canada from Oct 2018 - April 2019. I had to come back to my home country because of a family emergency. I am unable to go back for the time being because of family reasons.

However, I do have an opportunity to work for a Canadian business in my home country.
So, my question is: What are the requirements to complete the Residency Obligations while employed by a Canadian Employer abroad? How can my days be counted toward PR RO?
Any help or guidance would be highly appreciated.

Thanks
 

steaky

VIP Member
Nov 11, 2008
9,637
606
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Hi Everyone,

I have a question regarding PR Residency Requirements.

I was living in Canada from Oct 2018 - April 2019. I had to come back to my home country because of a family emergency. I am unable to go back for the time being because of family reasons.

However, I do have an opportunity to work for a Canadian business in my home country.
So, my question is: What are the requirements to complete the Residency Obligations while employed by a Canadian Employer abroad? How can my days be counted toward PR RO?
Any help or guidance would be highly appreciated.

Thanks
It would not be counted if you are locally hired by the Canadian business.
 
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scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
64,618
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Toronto
Category........
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Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Hi Everyone,

I have a question regarding PR Residency Requirements.

I was living in Canada from Oct 2018 - April 2019. I had to come back to my home country because of a family emergency. I am unable to go back for the time being because of family reasons.

However, I do have an opportunity to work for a Canadian business in my home country.
So, my question is: What are the requirements to complete the Residency Obligations while employed by a Canadian Employer abroad? How can my days be counted toward PR RO?
Any help or guidance would be highly appreciated.

Thanks
The days won't be counted towards the residency obligation. This will be counted as time spent outside of Canada.

For the days to count, you would first have to be hired by this business for a job in Canada. You would need to be in the role in Canada for many months before being transferred to a role outside of Canada. Since you're being hired directly for a role outside of Canada, the time you spend outside of Canada cannot be counted towards the residency obligation.
 

Nqur

Star Member
Feb 8, 2018
61
1
Category........
NOC Code......
4163
App. Filed.......
20-06-2018
AOR Received.
25-05-2018
Is there a way they can hire me in my home country but register me in their Canadian office? I'm supposed to be moved to the Canadian office in the next 6-8 months.
They have launched an app based business in my home country and plan to launch it in Canada within 6-8 months.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
64,618
8,848
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Is there a way they can hire me in my home country but register me in their Canadian office? I'm supposed to be moved to the Canadian office in the next 6-8 months.
They have launched an app based business in my home country and plan to launch it in Canada within 6-8 months.
This won't work.

Again, you need to be hired for a role in Canada first and then moved to a role outside of Canada later.
 

steaky

VIP Member
Nov 11, 2008
9,637
606
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Is there a way they can hire me in my home country but register me in their Canadian office? I'm supposed to be moved to the Canadian office in the next 6-8 months.
They have launched an app based business in my home country and plan to launch it in Canada within 6-8 months.
Instead, is there a way that your family can give you a break while you work with the Canadian business (in Canada) for a period and then transfer you to the post in your home country?
 
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Nqur

Star Member
Feb 8, 2018
61
1
Category........
NOC Code......
4163
App. Filed.......
20-06-2018
AOR Received.
25-05-2018
Instead, is there a way that your family can give you a break while you work with the Canadian business for a period and then transfer you to the post in your home country?
I'm caring for a sick parent so was wondering if there was a way.
Hope things improve soon. Thank you for the replies !