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Love or Opportunity? Coffee Social

Halfmoon

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Love or Opportunity? - I'm sure this question has skated across a sponsors mind at least one time - minimum.

Hi Everyone,

With all the recent discussions within the forum and in headlines across various media channels regarding immigration fraud specifically on spousal sponsorship, I thought it would be valuable for us to share our thoughts on this topic as it could be helpful to many. Advices and warning signs...

To start, I think it's important to note the basics and foundation of what builds a loving relationship. TRUST, RESPECT, HONESTY, PATIENCE.

I'm female therefore I will speak from a female's perspective so men please feel free to share from the male angle.

I feel it's important to check out a man's values and core beliefs not just by his words but by his actions especially when developing a relationship from long distance:

Does he include you in his every day activities, are his whereabouts accounted for and does he always keep you posted on who he's with and where's going?

Does he go MIA for extended periods of time without a "sound" explanation?

Is he "present" when speaking with you. Does he show sincere interest in your life?

Does he show genuine interest and extend help when you are in need, whether it be emotionally, financially?

Does he discuss future plans with "you" in it consistently or do you have a nagging feeling of "not knowing" where you fit beyond today?

Have you sent him money consistently (people do fall in ruts HOWEVER I think there's a difference between helping another adult in a crisis vs sending consistently enough that the Western Union rep knows you on a first name basis)

Has he discussed finances with you and what his role will be in the home when you are both united in Canada?

Was he quick to talk about marriage before a serious bond was developed?

Has he considered the both of you living in his home country?

When you visit him, is EVERYTHING open access?

Does he provide financialsupport to you if needed?

Are you honest with yourself? I think that many people who've been used as a means for a gateway to Canada to some extent haven't been honest with themselves and may have "ignored" red flags in hopes that "everything will work out".

More importantly, if your inner voice is always going off in your head, that's your instinct advising you to take precaution and certainly something you need to listen to. IF, you are the one having to do the traveling to see your spouse, are the expenses shared between the two such as cost of flights, food, transportation, etc.

I am in a loving relationship with my husband waiting to be reunited however I'm hoping this discussion will help some people who currently have doubts and may have to reconsider their situations before it could cost them their hearts, sanity and bank accounts....
 

amikety

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Re: Is it Love or Opportunity?

Does he/she still want a relationship with you or talk to you if you pretend to be ineligible to sponsor because you're a convicted felony?
 

Halfmoon

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Re: Is it Love or Opportunity?

amikety said:
Does he/she still want a relationship with you or talk to you if you pretend to be ineligible to sponsor because you're a convicted felony?
Amikety, good point. With your comment are you implying that if you're ineligible, that he should suggest you move to be with him in his home country?
 

amikety

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Re: Love or Opportunity?

I'm implying true love doesn't depend on ability to sponsor. Nationality even. If someone doesn't want you if you can't sponsor, it's not real.
 

JimM

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Re: Is it Love or Opportunity?

amikety said:
Does he/she still want a relationship with you or talk to you if you pretend to be ineligible to sponsor because you're a convicted felony?
That might not be the best reason to use, the fact you have a criminal record and might revert to crime may in and of itself scare the other person off. It may also make them feel the relationship is doomed as they couldn't sponsor you to their country due to your past.

Also, regardless what reason you give, expect some anger from your partner when you reveal yes you can sponsor them, you were just "testing" their love...
 

Halfmoon

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Re: Is it Love or Opportunity?

JimM said:
That might not be the best reason to use, the fact you have a criminal record and might revert to crime may in and of itself scare the other person off. It may also make them feel the relationship is doomed as they couldn't sponsor you to their country due to your past.
True Jim ...would you have any suggestions for some of the men and ladies out there who are in this emotional bind with a potential fraudster?

Several more I'd like to add...is the person secretive, evasive when answering questions (the kind where you are still left wondering), been caught in multiple lies (stories change) or even gets angry/short if asked questions.......
 

amikety

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Re: Love or Opportunity?

My suggestion was tongue in cheek. In reality, someone who thinks he or she is in love won't be on guard like this. Even faced with obvious evidence, many people prefer to put up their blinders and trust in their loved one.

Love and hope are two of the most powerful emotions, which is why they are also easy to prey on.

We can make all sorts of suggestions, such as get a pre-nup (if spouse leaves within 3 year period, they must repay the fees, any social assistance, travel expenses, pay rent for the time they lived in your home, etc), require the spouse to pay for his or her own immigration fees (which is what my husband has done), ask the spouse to come over as a student or worker and test the relationship..... we can give helpful ideas out until we're blue in the face. However, if a man or a woman is blindly in love, it won't do a bit of good.

The only people that have any real chance of helping the victims beforehand are close friends and family. (And maybe professional counselors, haha.) As we all know, many of them won't interfere for fear of alienating the victim. It's a difficult situation to get sucked into for everyone, except the scammer. It's all pudding for him/her.
 

gsize

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Re: Love or Opportunity?

interesting thread, Do we really know if its legit ? Anyone can be 'played'

The scammers will soon see that living in Canada is not as easy as one thinks. Get ready to work 2 jobs....lots of traffic gridlock, health care going south, brutal winters (sometimes)
 

His_Wife

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Re: Love or Opportunity?

gsize said:
interesting thread, Do we really know if its legit ? Anyone can be 'played'

The scammers will soon see that living in Canada is not as easy as one thinks. Get ready to work 2 jobs....lots of traffic gridlock, health care going south, brutal winters (sometimes)

Agreed!!!
 

Halfmoon

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Re: Love or Opportunity?

amikety said:
My suggestion was tongue in cheek. In reality, someone who thinks he or she is in love won't be on guard like this. Even faced with obvious evidence, many people prefer to put up their blinders and trust in their loved one.

Love and hope are two of the most powerful emotions, which is why they are also easy to prey on.

We can make all sorts of suggestions, such as get a pre-nup (if spouse leaves within 3 year period, they must repay the fees, any social assistance, travel expenses, pay rent for the time they lived in your home, etc), require the spouse to pay for his or her own immigration fees (which is what my husband has done), ask the spouse to come over as a student or worker and test the relationship..... we can give helpful ideas out until we're blue in the face. However, if a man or a woman is blindly in love, it won't do a bit of good.

The only people that have any real chance of helping the victims beforehand are close friends and family. (And maybe professional counselors, haha.) As we all know, many of them won't interfere for fear of alienating the victim. It's a difficult situation to get sucked into for everyone, except the scammer. It's all pudding for him/her.
I can relate and agree to the part where the spouse should also contribute to the costs of immigration fees and anything associated with it such as medical examination, police checks, etc. In my opinion it should be a combined "effort" as with any other financial matter a married couple partakes in and not one sided.
 

Halfmoon

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Re: Love or Opportunity?

His_Wife said:
Agreed!!!
Waves at "His Wife" 8)
 

His_Wife

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Re: Love or Opportunity?

Halfmoon said:
Waves at "His Wife" 8)

Heeey Halfmoon!!

**waves back***
 

Murphy25

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Aug 28, 2012
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Re: Love or Opportunity?

just curious, can someone link to the "recent news media" sources that this topic has been mentioned in? haven't really heard it discussed much personally
 

Halfmoon

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Re: Love or Opportunity?

I think we can all agree that marriage fraud is an ongoing issue not only in recent news and by posting online Murphy25, I'm presuming you have sufficient access to the internet to search for articles as such however here are a few links for your musings. :)


Here's a news release posted at the CIC website which explains the reasoning behind the 2 year conditional PR status which was recently passed:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/releases/2012/2012-10-26.asp

Here was one of the biggest crack downs of this year:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/rcmp-uncover-massive-marriage-fraud-scheme-montreal-214330214.html

Some more articles:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/russian-bride-leaves-elderly-man-25k-welfare-bill-094830580.html

http://www.itv.com/news/london/2012-10-25/met-advises-vigilance-after-romance-scam-convictions/

Here is one of several coalitions against immigration fraud specifically marriage fraud....

http://www.canadiansagainstimmigrationfraud.com/

CBC documentary/film:

http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/passionateeyeshowcase/2010/truelove/
 

Murphy25

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Aug 28, 2012
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Re: Love or Opportunity?

thanks for the links! wasn't implying that you were wrong, just was honestly curious. only recently started following canadian news closely