Looking for advice, ideas — conjugal/common-law sponsorship

[lecks]

Hey everyone! I’m going to try and keep this as brief as I can possibly make it…which in the end turned out not to be brief at all.


I met my now-fiancé on an online game in late 2010, we started sending emails and speaking on a regular basis by the following February, and we both considered ourselves as being in an exclusive relationship together in late March/early April of 2011. Our correspondence throughout 2011 is well documented and easy to provide, right up to the day I flew to meet and then live with her in December. I figure that as far as the CIC is concerned, the starting point for our relationship would be here, once we had officially met in person—though I would be happy to be told if it were otherwise. :]

I stayed there with her for exactly 80 days, whence upon I had to leave for Canada before my 90-day Schengen/tourist visa ran out—two days after she proposed to me. I spent the rest of February–May 2012 working and saving up more money so that I could return for another 90 days. At that point I didn’t have to worry about staying longer than that, as my fiancé was finishing up an exchange year of studying at a university in the Czech Republic. I returned in May, and then in July flew with her to her home country of Turkey, where we have lived together ever since. Luckily, I was somehow (and quite recently) able to obtain a residence permit to stay here thru until October 2013, so we don’t have to worry about having a repeat of what happened in the CR, but now we’re looking at what will need to happen once October rolls around.

I came here looking for ideas/information/advice, and maybe even some moral support. :3


A few quick points:

-We’re both women
-Same-s e x relationships aren’t recognized in Turkey, so as much as we’d love to, getting married here isn’t an available option
-For now, she is financially dependant on her parents until she graduates
-Her family does NOT approve of her “lifestyle”, and therefore are not privy to our relationship
-My family are all well aware of our relationship, but they haven’t had the chance to meet my fiancé. I have, on the other hand, met and am close with her brother.
-If I were to invite her to Canada on a TRV, her family would most assuredly not react in any kind of positive way. I don’t want to bring her into Canada until I know I can help make her 100% independent and free from their control.
-Depending on when we choose to send in an application, the plan is for me to return to Canada sometime between July and October next year so that I can re-settle myself there and prepare for her arrival
-I am currently unemployed, but have an incredibly good relationship with my former employers, whom re-hired me instantly upon my initial return to Canada. They know just as much about my situation as my family, and have told me they’d be happy to have me work with them again.


Aaand as to be expected, I do in fact have a few questions:

1.Conjugal vs. Common-law — which could/should we apply under?

Conjugal would be the faster route, as for common-law we will have to wait until May 2013 before we can even send the application in, but from what I read and understand we don’t qualify for conjugal since I have obliterated any such ‘immigration barriers’ with my residence permit (before even taking a TRV into consideration). Am I more or less correct on that? I can’t stay longer than 1 year, but we will be able to reach the 12-month co-habitation rule if I do stay past May as I intend. The only pro I can see with the conjugal route is being able to apply much earlier rather than wait, but if we do/did fall under this category would it still be better to wait regardless?


2.Do we have to provide documented proof of our living together since May?
And 3.Is there anything else I should/could do to provide further proof of our relationship/living arrangements/commitment?

I wasn’t on the rental agreement in the Czech Republic, nor did I receive any mail there. Is there any other way I can show this? I do have a number of pictures, and we were living with two friends/roommates at the time who could attest to my living there. I believe our landlord would also be willing, but again, there is no proof on paper.

Here in Turkey the situation is almost as bad, because the landlord here is in close communication with my fiancé’s parents, so my name can’t exactly be on the rental agreement. In the past, her family has done everything in their power to isolate and cut her off from ex-girlfriends, and she’s never even been able to live with any before now. We are planning on trying to get me on the internet service bill, having mail sent to us both at this address, and opening a joint bank account, but will things dated farther in the future be enough to say we are dependant on each other and have been living together since May? My permit lists me at this address, but only as of October (when it was issued to me), and we also have friends here who have seen us together in person and known about the relationship even before I met them.

The amount of secrecy we’ve needed to keep is maddening, but so far has been our only option to stay together without incident. Her family’s reaction, however negative it may be, is not something we want to test until we have backup plans in place. If there’s anything else I can do or provide even under these restraints, I’d love to hear them!


4.Is it risky applying as a sponsor living outside of Canada?

I have neither the intention nor the ability to stay abroad beyond October 2013, but how solid should my proving this be? I have no financial ties to Canada right now besides my bank account. I can show the last day on my permit, get confirmation from friends and family in Canada, and maybe even something from my more than likely employer, but will that be enough? Would a plane ticket help? Even if it should theoretically be enough, would it be better for me to wait until I’m back in Canada? I’d rather not wait until then because it would delay applying even further, but I want to make sure that whatever we choose or decide to do, it will be at exactly the right time which will give our application that best chance to be approved as possible, regardless of the date/wait.

To conclude this rabble, I can only say thanks SO much for reading all of that, and I/we hope to be fellow applicants in the near-future.

 

[SchnookoLoly]

Righty-o. Just my opinion in here, others will give you other opinions, so consider options.

1.Conjugal vs. Common-law — which could/should we apply under?

Conjugal would be the faster route, as for common-law we will have to wait until May 2013 before we can even send the application in, but from what I read and understand we don't qualify for conjugal since I have obliterated any such ‘immigration barriers' with my residence permit (before even taking a TRV into consideration). Am I more or less correct on that? I can't stay longer than 1 year, but we will be able to reach the 12-month co-habitation rule if I do stay past May as I intend. The only pro I can see with the conjugal route is being able to apply much earlier rather than wait, but if we do/did fall under this category would it still be better to wait regardless?

I don't think you would qualify as conjugal. I don't know for sure, but I don't think it's a strong case, particularly, as you say, your residence permit. It does explain you not getting married, but conjugal is for more strict restrictions than you're currently facing.

So, common-law I would think is your best bet. You will have to wait until May 2013 to apply to satisfy the 12-month rule, but I think it's a much likelier positive outcome than attempting conjugal.

2.Do we have to provide documented proof of our living together since May?

Absolutely, yes. CIC will not just take your word for it that you (a) have been living together, and (b) have been living together in a marriage-like arrangement/relationship.

And 3.Is there anything else I should/could do to provide further proof of our relationship/living arrangements/commitment?

There is some guidance from CIC on what they look for to prove that you are living together in the way I've described above; you touch on bits in your next section so I'll keep responding in chunks...

I wasn't on the rental agreement in the Czech Republic, nor did I receive any mail there. Is there any other way I can show this? I do have a number of pictures, and we were living with two friends/roommates at the time who could attest to my living there. I believe our landlord would also be willing, but again, there is no proof on paper.

THis will be hard to prove without any actual paperwork. You could look at having sworn affidavits done by your roommates and landlord, which might help prove it, but it might be too thin on its own. However, if you apply in May 2013 when you have the one year in Turkey PLUS the few months from CR it might help add credibility, but likely wouldn't stand on its own.

Here in Turkey the situation is almost as bad, because the landlord here is in close communication with my fiancé's parents, so my name can't exactly be on the rental agreement. In the past, her family has done everything in their power to isolate and cut her off from ex-girlfriends, and she's never even been able to live with any before now.

OBviously that's not great as a lease is the ideal way to prove you are living together. However, in your case I would be sure to write a letter explaining exactly what you have here as the reason you are not on the lease. I'm guessing that as far as the landlord is concerned, she is living there alone?

We are planning on trying to get me on the internet service bill, having mail sent to us both at this address, and opening a joint bank account, but will things dated farther in the future be enough to say we are dependant on each other and have been living together since May? My permit lists me at this address, but only as of October (when it was issued to me), and we also have friends here who have seen us together in person and known about the relationship even before I met them.

If you don't have anything at all that has your address as of May, it will be really hard to prove you've been living there as long as you say, particularly with no backup of affidavits from roommates or the landlord. You could show proof of your flight there, to show you at least landed in May, and then explain that you were there as a tourist first (I'm guessing?) until your residence permit was issued in October with the address on it. However, if you're able to wait, another consideration might be waiting until October to apply, but I understand you may not want to wait that long.

IN the meantime, though, get as much joint as you possibly can. INternet and bank account is a good place to start. Also try to get utilities if you can. Get mail sent to both of you at the address. If you buy household stuff together, keep copies of the receipts (furniture, artwork, if you get a pet, etc). Again you'll need a letter to explain why you don't have more, but they will appreciate the effort to proving as much as you can. Doesn't guarantee that you'll get approved, but it's worth trying.

The amount of secrecy we've needed to keep is maddening, but so far has been our only option to stay together without incident. Her family's reaction, however negative it may be, is not something we want to test until we have backup plans in place. If there's anything else I can do or provide even under these restraints, I'd love to hear them!

You said that your family knows your fiance and is accepting - have them write letters (bonus points if you have them notarised) saying that they know you, they know you two together as a couple, know how you met originally and when you met in person, and that you lived together first in CR and then in Turkey. The more detail they can give the better.

Obviously you won't be able to get letters from her family, but you mentioned about her brother - would he be able to write one? He can also explain the situation with his/her parents. You won't be the first to have been in this situation, but the more you can provide the better.

4.Is it risky applying as a sponsor living outside of Canada?

I have neither the intention nor the ability to stay abroad beyond October 2013, but how solid should my proving this be? I have no financial ties to Canada right now besides my bank account. I can show the last day on my permit, get confirmation from friends and family in Canada, and maybe even something from my more than likely employer, but will that be enough? Would a plane ticket help? Even if it should theoretically be enough, would it be better for me to wait until I'm back in Canada? I'd rather not wait until then because it would delay applying even further, but I want to make sure that whatever we choose or decide to do, it will be at exactly the right time which will give our application that best chance to be approved as possible, regardless of the date/wait.

No risk there. I sponsored my husband, we both live in the UK. No issues applying as a sponsor from outside of Canada. SO don't worry about that. There is one question that you are asked on the forms - proof of intention to re-establish in Canada... but for that you can just provide plans and that sort of thing - you plan on living in x city, living with your parents initially, just go through your plans to move, even if they are just potential plans since you obviously don't know if you'll get approved etc.

But no risk applying as a sponsor when living outside of Canada.

The last suggestion I have that might make things easier - have you considered getting married in Canada? Turkey wouldn't recognise the marriage, but Canada would, which means you can apply as Spousal, which is less complicated than Common-Law, especially in your case. YOu still have to provide all the same proof of relationship, but not of the 12 month sof living together - proof of generally living together, and being married in Canada, might be an easier option. I understand that you might not want to go down this route just yet given your circumstances, but it might be something to think about.

 

[McDutch]

You are going to have a really hard time either way.

Also, you say her parents are financially responsible for her, how old is she?
The first step would be for her to be approved as your sponsor.

It is a pretty bad situation you are in right now (from a sponsorship CIC point of view) and i would look into attaining a 1 year work visa in Canada first, to strengthen the common law case a bit

 

[lecks]

Righty-o. Just my opinion in here, others will give you other opinions, so consider options.

Different opinions are exactly what I'm looking for. :]

Leaving out everything I completely agree with/have no further inquiry on:

THis will be hard to prove without any actual paperwork. You could look at having sworn affidavits done by your roommates and landlord, which might help prove it, but it might be too thin on its own. However, if you apply in May 2013 when you have the one year in Turkey PLUS the few months from CR it might help add credibility, but likely wouldn't stand on its own.

It was actually May-July in the CR, and Turkey from then onward. :/ In that case I take it that you think I should almost regard July as my starting point due to lack of evidence?

I'm guessing that as far as the landlord is concerned, she is living there alone?

That is indeed how it is at the moment. If we decided to go ahead and get me put on the rental agreement as a roommate, the owner wants to 'interview' and approve of my character before agreeing, AND she'll go to my fiancé's parents to update them on the situation. She originally wouldn't even consider letting her rent this flat unless she could have her parents heavily involved in the matter, I suppose to ensure the place is well taken care of because the last group of students here trashed everything. In the end it would just open up a huge can of worms that we aren't ready to deal with.

If you don't have anything at all that has your address as of May, it will be really hard to prove you've been living there as long as you say, particularly with no backup of affidavits from roommates or the landlord. You could show proof of your flight there, to show you at least landed in May, and then explain that you were there as a tourist first (I'm guessing?) until your residence permit was issued in October with the address on it. However, if you're able to wait, another consideration might be waiting until October to apply, but I understand you may not want to wait that long.

I entered on a tourist visa, yep. ^_^ The thing about waiting until October is that 1. I'm not sure I'll have the funds to stay that long, and 2. She'll in all likelihood be brought back home to her parents because her undergrad studies will have been over. That means no living together once summer hits, and missing the 12-month. If I could manage this somehow, I'd love to, but I don't see it happening.

Obviously you won't be able to get letters from her family, but you mentioned about her brother - would he be able to write one? He can also explain the situation with his/her parents. You won't be the first to have been in this situation, but the more you can provide the better.

Yes, he definitely can, and we plan on asking him to.

No risk there. I sponsored my husband, we both live in the UK. No issues applying as a sponsor from outside of Canada. SO don't worry about that. There is one question that you are asked on the forms - proof of intention to re-establish in Canada... but for that you can just provide plans and that sort of thing - you plan on living in x city, living with your parents initially, just go through your plans to move, even if they are just potential plans since you obviously don't know if you'll get approved etc.

One thing I thought would be tricky actually turns out to be something minor. Phew.

The last suggestion I have that might make things easier - have you considered getting married in Canada? Turkey wouldn't recognise the marriage, but Canada would, which means you can apply as Spousal, which is less complicated than Common-Law, especially in your case. YOu still have to provide all the same proof of relationship, but not of the 12 month sof living together - proof of generally living together, and being married in Canada, might be an easier option. I understand that you might not want to go down this route just yet given your circumstances, but it might be something to think about.

We've thought about it, but the thought of making THAT the reason for marrying is just not so appealing. If it turns out to be the only reasonable option though, there's no way we'll refuse to do it. The only thing that worries me is applying for and using the TRV. When I say her parents are controlling, I mean they literally look into everything she does and says. She's even had to make two Facebook accounts to throw them off. But again, whatever we have to do, we are going to do it.


And THANK YOU, really.

 

[lecks]

You are going to have a really hard time either way.

Also, you say her parents are financially responsible for her, how old is she?
The first step would be for her to be approved as your sponsor.

It is a pretty bad situation you are in right now (from a sponsorship CIC point of view) and i would look into attaining a 1 year work visa in Canada first, to strengthen the common law case a bit

She's 23, and I will be 23 in January. I'm in no place to say I have a great deal of knowledge when it comes to the culture here, but from what I have seen myself parents are more or less in charge until marriage. That's essentially the case when it comes to my fiancé, anyhow. Even hanging out with her friends who are all 20-somethings, after 4pm every one of them was getting a call from their parents every hour until they gave in and went home.

Sorry if I wasn't quite clear enough in my original post, but I'd be the sponsor. I'm the Canadian and she's from Turkey. :] Per getting a work visa, I'll look into it now myself, but I assume she would need a job offer to qualify?

And again, if I'm going to bring her to Canada I need to make damn sure I can keep her there, or at least safely away from her parents. If we do manage to get married in Canada, will it cause any extra suspicion as to its legitimacy?

 

[McDutch]

Sorry, i misread it!
Thought she was going to be the sponsor.

There are ways, see if she is eligible for the IEC (International Experience Canada) program

 

[Isometry]

Just a few quick things:

You're a Canadian citizen, correct? If you're a PR, then you can't sponsor her while living outside of Canada. If you're a citizen, this will cause no problems.

If you were able to successfully get a TRV for your fiance, would her parents necessarily know? My thought here is that if you've been living together for a few months already without her landlord or parents finding out, then they probably don't physically visit her that much, and a week or two without seeing her (but with her still answering the phone!) might not be noticed.

Getting married in Canada would not cause suspicion as to its legitimacy, especially since you've a same-sex couple and can't get married in Turkey.

While you can't count the time before you met in person towards common-law, it's definitely good to document your communication from the beginning. You want to tell the whole story!

 

[homeagain]

SchnookoLoly or anyone that can offer advice please. I have been reading this forum and another for days trying to find answers. My situation is this.
I am a Canadian (am a UK resident) living in England for 6 years. My husband and I have been married 5 years (he is British). We have decided that because we are getting older that we would like to live in Canada to be near/with my aging mother and stepdad. Hubby hasn't any family left here.

Proving we are in a relationship and happy is not a problem. What I want to figure out is what is the best way to go about applying. I don't work anymore but am not of retirement age (not quite 50 yet). He works at his own business which is very transferable to Canada.

My concern is if I apply to sponsor him and I have no income, will they let me sponsor him?

Would we be better off moving back to Canada, living with mum and me looking for work while we apply from there?

I think I now understand the Inland and Outland bit, and would obviously want to apply outland since that is the shortest time frame. Moving before he gets PR will make working difficult since he is the breadwinner. Any tips or advice? Also if we do the application from here, do we submit HMRC reports as proof of income since we obviously are not in Canada yet? Oh and can mum be of assistance in that she is giving us free housing while we get settled? Will it help to mention that?

Thank you

 

[Creampop]

There is no income requirement for spousal sponsorship as long as you are not on government assistance or in bankruptcy. Applying Out-land is just so much quicker plus you retain your freedom to cross the border while waiting out the process. You will have to include a settlement plan with your application. Things like... letter from mum saying you can stay with her till you get on your feet, e-mails from possible employers, you said your husband business is transferable maybe some plan or company info that shows it is transferable. e-mails from companies giving quotes for shipping your belongings over, e-mails inquiring about purchasing a house or rental properties. Good Luck!

 

[homeagain]

Thank you to those who responded to my queries, your information was very helpful. Will let you know how it all goes!