LMIA for CEC - wage confusion?

[wsmolind]

Hello!

I'm a PGWP holder and I am trying to apply for my PR via Express Entry. However, I know chances are slim if I don't have an LMIA.

My employer is willing to help me with this but the information online about the new LMIA process is extremely confusing and contradicting. Specifically, the wage range and the occupation's classification as a high-wage or low-wage job.

I'm a graphic designer, which is classified as a high-skilled job (level B). I am being paid below the median wage for the territory I work at (Ontario is $21, and $26 for Toronto specifically). So, according to the ESDC webpage, that would place me in the high-skilled low-wage category. It says that employers offering a wage "that is below the provincial/territorial median hourly wage will be subject to a maximum 10% cap on the proportion of low-wage TFWs." So my employer would be able to apply for my LMIA as a low-wage position following these worker cap restrictions.

However, later on, it goes on to say that "Employers offering a wage that is below the prevailing wage rate (median wage) will be considered as not meeting the labour market factor for the assessment of wages and therefore, will be issued a negative LMIA." Which is exactly my situation: being offered below the media wage for the territory!

So, my question is, which one is it? How do you actually classify high-skilled high wage and low wage positions? Because CIC's information is just contradicting itself all over the place. It says very specifically that workers being offered below the median can be considered low-wage and instructs employers on how to apply for LMIA with a low-wage worker, but then goes on to say that any company offering below the median won't even be considered for an LMIA.

Does anyone have any info on this or any first hand experience? I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks in advance!

 

[ali45]

Hello

Did you applied lmia? I am in the same situation as you were?

 

[wsmolind]

Hi Alia,

I didn't apply for an LMIA (I didn't need it in the end) but I do have the answer for this question.

Jobs are classified as High-skilled and Low-skilled depending on if the average pay for them is above or below the median wage for the PROVINCE they are in, not depending on what your company is paying you. You determine this by comparing the average Provincial Median Wage with the average Profession Median Wage. Let me try to explain it (it's very confusing):

First, you have to look at what the average median wage is for the province you live in (in my case it was Ontario). This median wage is the general median wage of the province, taking into account every job existing in the province. This is a GENERAL median wage, not specific to your profession. Here is a link where you can find a table for the median wages for each province, according to the government of Canada. Scroll down to the second table shown: http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/foreign_workers/hire/service_tables.page

So, on that table, you can see that Ontario's median wage is $22.00 an hour this year.

NOW, you have to look for the median wage specific to YOUR profession. In my case, it was graphic designer. Last I checked, the median was $24.00 an hour. http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/report-eng.do?area=9219&lang=eng&noc=5241&action=final&ln=p&regionKeyword=Toronto%2C+Ontario&s=1&source=2&titleKeyword=graphic+designer#report_tabs_container2

To determine if your job is high-skilled or low-skilled, you compare the two median wages: the general provincial one and the specific to your job one. If your job's specific median wage (Graphic Designer - $24.00) is HIGHER than the general provincial wage (Ontario - $22.00), it is a high-skilled job. If it is LOWER than the general provincial wage, it is considered a low-skilled job.

The application requirements for the LMIA change depending on if your job is high-skilled or low-skilled. So, it is important to know this!!

HAVING SAID THAT, this does not affect the amount your employer has to be paying you. This is only to determine if your job is classified as high-skilled or low-skilled and which application forms and document checklist you'll have to give the government with your LMIA application. Generally speaking, though: For any job, in any category whether it is high-skilled or low-skilled, your employer has to be paying you at LEAST the median wage specific to your job as determined by the government of Canada. This means, the median wage specific to your profession (in my case it was $24.00) has to be paid, in order for the government to even consider your LMIA application. If your employer is not paying you at LEAST the median wage for your profession, your LMIA application will probably not be considered.

In my case, my employer couldn't afford to pay me $24.00 an hour, so I talked to them and we all agreed to look for an NOC code where the duties still matched with what I did, but the pay was lower. So, instead of applying as a Graphic Designer, I applied as a Graphics Technician. Duties are almost the same, but the median wage was only $18.00 (much more doable for them).

Hope it wasn't too confusing!!

 

[evanstp9]

Just to clarify sth, since I'm in a similar position, and have spent quite some time trying to figure that out..

NOC B - 2281, provincial (Ontario) median wage in $22 and the median for the occupation and region (Toronto) is $30.77.
I'm due to ask for raise and LMIA, so here's my question:

I find really difficult to be paid above $30, since I'm on PGWP with almost 1 year experience now.
If I get anything above $22, from what I understand, will be sufficient for LMIA, and considered low-wage stream, since it's lower than the occupational-regional median.

Is that correct?

Although it states that if the occupation-specific median is not met, the LMIA will be rejected.

How would someone then fall under the low-wage in that case?

 

[wsmolind]

Hello,
Not exactly. What your employer is paying you is NOT what determines whether your occupation is high-wage or low-wage. This is determined by comparing the median wage for Ontario ($22) and the median wage for your occupation according to job bank ($30), NOT your current pay.

So:
High-wage stream - any job that Job Bank says the median wage is at or above $22
Low- Wage stream - any job that Job Bank says the median wage is below $22

You can certainly be paid less than the median wage of the province, but still be at or above the median wage for your occupation. So, in my case, the occupation I went with had a median wage of $18, lower than the median wage of the province which is $22. The only effect this had on my application was that it went from a high-skilled occupation to a low-wage occupation, and the requirements for the company's paperwork changed a bit.

For example, in your case: Your occupation would be classified a high-skilled occupation, because the median wage for your occupation in Toronto ($30) is higher than the general median wage of the Province of Ontario ($22).

However, this doesn't affect the reality that your employer needs to pay you the median for your occupation, not the median for the province, to qualify for an LMIA. They need to be paying you at least $30.

That's why I had to switch my NOC occupation to one where the median wage for it at Job Bank was lower than that of a graphic designer, so that my employer could still pay it, but that still matched my duties nicely.

But in any and all cases, you need to be paid at least the median wage for your occupation. Even if it's above or below the median wage for Ontario.

 

[evanstp9]

I see..

Thanks for the clarification, makes sense now.

I think the only change between high and low wage is on the advertising requirements or not?
I think for the low they have a couple of more bulletpoints, requirements.

The part that looks confusing is here though:
Employers offering a wage to a temporary foreign worker (TFW) that is:

below the provincial/territorial median hourly wage must meet the Advertisement and Recruitment requirements of the Stream for Low-wage positions;
at or above the provincial/territorial median hourly wage must meet the Advertisement and Recruitment requirements of the Stream for High-wage positions.

Excerpt from: http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/foreign_workers/hire/permanent/recruitment.page

That looks like they take into account what an employer offers to the TFW as wage, to determine the ad requirements.

 

[wsmolind]

Hello,

Yes, that's exactly right. The high-wage and low-wage stream classification only affects a couple of requirements for the paperwork (advertisement, info you have to give to the government, etc.)

Glad I could help!

 

[evanstp9]

Hello,

Yes, that's exactly right. The high-wage and low-wage stream classification only affects a couple of requirements for the paperwork (advertisement, info you have to give to the government, etc.)

Glad I could help!

Hi,

What about this part then:
Employers offering a wage to a temporary foreign worker (TFW) that is:

below the provincial/territorial median hourly wage must meet the Advertisement and Recruitment requirements of the Stream for Low-wage positions;
at or above the provincial/territorial median hourly wage must meet the Advertisement and Recruitment requirements of the Stream for High-wage positions.

Excerpt from: http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/foreign_workers/hire/permanent/recruitment.page

It explicitly mentions the wage offered to the TFW..