Legal Advice Urgently Needed! I Am Desperate - Leon Please Reply.

[Immigrant2B]

Good day,

At the age of 18+ I was arrested for shoplifting back in the US (class B misdemeanor since it was a little over $50). No conviction resulted. The case got dismissed/expunged by a US law firm. We then applied to Canada (husband was the main applicant) as a federal skilled worker. I said the truth on the application and provided evidence of the expunction. Our application got approved by the visa office and we were granted visa and PR confirmation 10 months later (last month).

I am seeking help in getting clarification regarding the rights expungement grants you (record denial in work/school applications to be able to move on with life) VS fact misrepresentation in Canada. In the US, unless under oath in court, I can legally deny a record of ever happening in job/school applications once the expungement went through. What is the law like in Canada?

I will say the truth at the Canadian Border as we enter - just like I did in the application. My concern is once am in, can I tick "no" to those questions on different job application forms? Isn't that a right expunction already grants me? Who do employers or landlords do criminal checks with i my case as new-to-Canada? My FBI and state records (in the US) are clear...but I re-spilled it all in the immigration application and will do again to the border if asked.

1- Can I deny the arrest record of ever happening in job application forms?
2- When/if finger printed at the POE or police station, is this information going to go in the Canadian system as though it was never expunged in the US system - just because I spilled it all?
3- If yes, is suspending it (again) from the Canadian system an option?
4- If yes, can I then lawfully say “NO” I various application forms once in?

Pardons Canada (pardons.org) specializes in sealing records and claims one can legally tick "no" to those 'have you ever been" questions. I need to know if this is legal? They obviously operate on legal grounds, but I'm hearing a lot about fact misrepresentation and they both seem to conflict; one is legal (in case of expungement/pardons) and the other one isn't.

Help please..I was looking forward to a new beginning and put that stupid mistake I did 10 years ago behind once and for all. But it seems like am being haunted forever. My chances of getting an education or working are minimal if not none.

PS. I am not a US citizen

Thank you.

 

[Leon]

You did the crime, you found out yourself that it is legal to tick no in the US and now you need to find out for Canada. This has nothing to do with immigration. It is a purely legal matter. I suggest you ask a lawyer. I really have no idea what the answer is. Good luck.

 

[Immigrant2B]

Thank you for your reply, Leon.

I have already consulted our immigration lawyer and he told me that would be misrepresentation of facts, although in Pardons Canada it wouldn't be so. This is where I got a little confused. So you suggest I refer to an Expunction lawyer as he's well-versed around the ins and outs of laws concerning expungement?

But isn't it that anything immigrants do inside will ultimately affect their immigration status? Isn't the information I will spill at the POE is THE information that will be in the system where criminal background checks take place by employers...etc?

Thanks again, Leon. I am very appreciative of any information I can get here.

 

[Leon]

Yes, you should ask a lawyer that deals with those kind of cases, not an immigration lawyer. There are always ads dealing with pardons and stuff like that. Maybe you should ask one of them.

You could also just take the risk that it is illegal. If you say this is not on your criminal record any more and it is not even from Canada, what are the odds that they will ever find out?

And even if you are found out, what crime are you guilty of, lying on a job application? You could lose the job but I am 100% sure it is not a crime to lie on a job application.

You'd have to commit a pretty severe crime in Canada for it to affect your immigration. I am sure that lying on job application has absolutely no effect.

 

[Immigrant2B]

Thanks again for the sincere advice, Leon.

I will check with a lawyer and see what's legal and what's not and will take it from there. To be honest am not all for lying, but I've been told that a lot of employers can't make the difference between an arrest record made at the age of 18 and a conviction and chances are for my resume/application to make its way to the trash can placed under an HR manager's desk are pretty high. :-[ So to prevent a bigger loss, I will take what I can so long it's legal.

Will take your advice and any I can get. And will deal with it once we're there.

Much appreciated.

 

[links18]

Why is this an emergency?

It depends on what the question is. If they ask you "have you ever been convicted of a crime?" The answer obviously is, "No." If they ask if you "have you ever been arrested? or "Have you ever been charged with a crime?," then obviously "no" is not the correct answer. Generally, in the U.S. it is illegal to ask someone if they have ever been arrested on a job application, because it is meaningless and prejudicial. They can ask you if you have ever been convicted of a crime. This doesn't apply obviously to public safety and other sensitive jobs.

I have been asked the following the questions at the border: "Have you ever had any legal trouble?" and "When was the last time you went to court?" Neither question is very specific and I suppose they are designed to get at situations like yours where there is no criminal conviction, but a strong suggestion of criminality. I suspect I have been asked this question because the computer shows I have a fingerprint record from a previous job. The problem is at the border you will not have a lawyer next to you to object to the form of their question.

I would strongly advise you to consult with a criminal attorney and together determine in no uncertain terms what your answers should be to such questions at the border. I wouldn't rely on advice you got on an internet forum on this matter.

 

[Immigrant2B]

Thank you, Links.

The urgency really comes from the consequences of my answering "yes" in job applications. We can't afford living off of one income. I wanted to work with kids - special needs to be exact. I am not worried about the conviction part, I am about the arrest/charge part.

Thank you very much for giving me an idea about the type of questions asked at the border - how vague! no court for me. But having been arrested for shoplifting and detained is certainly considered to be "legal trouble" So big yes for that one (especially that they surely have a copy of my immigration application that says it all).

 

[Leon]

The urgency really comes from the consequences of my answering "yes" in job applications. We can't afford living off of one income. I wanted to work with kids - special needs to be exact. I am not worried about the conviction part, I am about the arrest/charge part.

What do job applications have to do with immigration?

 

[links18]

What do job applications have to do with immigration?

Exactly. I think the only question you are going to get on a job application is "Have you ever been convicted of a crime?" The answer in your case is clearly, "no." Any other question might even be illegal.

But if you ever leave the country, you should have a plan for how to answer these types of vague, probing questions if they come up.

 

[Immigrant2B]

@ Links,

I was told you get asked questions like arrest/charge in applications for nurseries, elderly homes, special needs or even for volunteer positions (if not in the applications, in the interviews). And when and if they do criminal checks, I am afraid whatever I say at the POE will go into the system and employers will see it.

@ Leon,

Don't answers I give to these questions on job applications have to match with those I do at POE and on our immigration application? Couldn't employers double check our immigration file and see for themselves if the information is true?

 

[Leon]

@ Leon,

Don't answers I give to these questions on job applications have to match with those I do at POE and on our immigration application? Couldn't employers double check our immigration file and see for themselves if the information is true?

Why do you assume that employers have access to immigration records? They don't. It is a question of privacy. Nobody has access to your immigration records except immigration, yourself or your appointed representative.

If your employer wants to get your criminal records (in Canada), they have to ask your permission. If you sign a statement saying they can, then they can. If you say no, then they can't but then you might not get the job. However, your Canada criminal records are clean so no worries. As for the American one, if this isn't even on there, you can get a copy of it and if an employer asks to see it, show them the copy.

 

[Immigrant2B]

Thanks a million Leon..

Although I will seek a criminal lawyer's "paid" advice, yours certainly helped me put things in perspective....It's the immigration lawyer who freaked me out when he said that would be fact misrepresentation + immigration people could find out what information you've given in your job application = they will rethink about your immigration status since you haven't been honest to Canadian companies = high chances of removal proceedings against you/hubby.

Criminal lawyer will confirm that information. Meanwhile, I'm calm about it - thanks to you.

We're planning to land in Canada between Sep and Nov this year. Wish me luck!

 

[Leon]

The immigration lawyer honestly said that lying on a job application would lose you your PR status? I am baffled. It is pretty hard to lose your PR status actually. As long as you meet the residency requirements and don't commit a serious crime, you can not lose it. I can not even imagine how lying on a job application could ever be considered a serious crime. However, lying to immigration is considered misrepresentation and they take that very seriously.

 

[Immigrant2B]

"The immigration lawyer honestly said that lying on a job application would lose you your PR status? I am baffled. It is pretty hard to lose your PR status actually. As long as you meet the residency requirements and don't commit a serious crime, you can not lose it."

I am thinking he probably wanted to be in the super safe side when answering me. Although it would've been easier for him to tell me to consult with a criminal lawyer as he'd be more well-versed about it.

I'm telling you..when he said this to me and I had him re-say it a couple of more times just to make sure I heard it correctly, all my hopes got flushed down the toilet and I immediately started getting a visual of how the bridge we'll be sleeping underneath will look like :S

 

[links18]

You need to consult with an attorney about all this. The law about what they can ask you may be different for sensitive jobs, such as those involving working around children, but honestly it seems to me that asking about arrests is simply inmaterial. Having been arrested before is not itself an indication of serious criminality. Technically, if you have ever been pulled over for a traffic violation, you have been "arrested." You weren't free to go until the officer wrote you a ticket.

Perhaps you need to wait until you get an actual job application and see exactly what they ask you?