Lawyer (notary) wouldn't certify foreign language documents as true copies due to not knowing the name of the documents

[DodoCorp]

Hello,

For documents not in English/French, we need a certified translation and a certified copy of the original source documents. Problem is, the lawyer we went to said he could not put the name of the original documents on his certification because he doesn't speak Japanese.

Why is this important? Well, IRCC asks for the following:

• Their name and signature under the written statement “I certify that this is a true copy of the original document.”
• Their official position or title
• The name of the original document
• The date they certified

The lawyer could do everything except the bolded and underlined part.

We asked around and no certified translator will notarize (certify) the original source documents, so if we go to them and give them the original documents they will translate them and certify the translation only. After that, if we take the certified translations and the original source documents to a notary again, our concern is the notary will only certify the translations as true copies because they can only read the English translations, and for them, they can't know if the original source documents are really what was translated because they can't read Japanese. I hope I'm just confused and/or wrong on this.

If all else fails, despite the requirements stating we need to include a certified photocopy of the original source documents, can we just include the actual original source documents along with the certified translation? We do not need the original documents back for anything, their purpose is just this application, so it isn't really a big deal to lose them. If anything it might be more of a headache to notarize a photocopy.

For those curious the documents are:
1) Koseki Tohon
2) Kaiseigen Koseki Tohon
(Japanese documents).

Thank you.

 

[yoli85]

Hello,

For documents not in English/French, we need a certified translation and a certified copy of the original source documents. Problem is, the lawyer we went to said he could not put the name of the original documents on his certification because he doesn't speak Japanese.

Why is this important? Well, IRCC asks for the following:

• Their name and signature under the written statement “I certify that this is a true copy of the original document.”
• Their official position or title
• The name of the original document
• The date they certified

The lawyer could do everything except the bolded and underlined part.

We asked around and no certified translator will notarize (certify) the original source documents, so if we go to them and give them the original documents they will translate them and certify the translation only. After that, if we take the certified translations and the original source documents to a notary again, our concern is the notary will only certify the translations as true copies because they can only read the English translations, and for them, they can't know if the original source documents are really what was translated because they can't read Japanese. I hope I'm just confused and/or wrong on this.

If all else fails, despite the requirements stating we need to include a certified photocopy of the original source documents, can we just include the actual original source documents along with the certified translation? We do not need the original documents back for anything, their purpose is just this application, so it isn't really a big deal to lose them. If anything it might be more of a headache to notarize a photocopy.

For those curious the documents are:
1) Koseki Tohon
2) Kaiseigen Koseki Tohon
(Japanese documents).

Thank you.

Hi DodoCorp!
How did it go with you regarding the certification of the copies for the translation? I'm in the process of doing this and I'm thinking of taking the copies to a notary public where they speak my language. Did you try this as well?

Also, I'm in doubt about what to do. Did you take the copies that the translator certified for translation AND then you had these copies certified by a notary? Or is it the other way around? First, certify the copies and then send this to translate? I find this confusing, as I have original documents (bank statements) that, in my opinion, it seems pointless to certify a copy when this is the original the whole time.

Hope you found the answer to your issue and that you could help me figure out what to do next.

Thanks!

 

[armoured]

Hi DodoCorp!
How did it go with you regarding the certification of the copies for the translation? I'm in the process of doing this and I'm thinking of taking the copies to a notary public where they speak my language. Did you try this as well?

Also, I'm in doubt about what to do. Did you take the copies that the translator certified for translation AND then you had these copies certified by a notary? Or is it the other way around? First, certify the copies and then send this to translate? I find this confusing, as I have original documents (bank statements) that, in my opinion, it seems pointless to certify a copy when this is the original the whole time.

That user has not been on the sight for many months now.

As for your question: stop thinking about it and go to either a notary or a translator and tell them what you need. Almost all I have ever seen (translators and notaries) know how to work with the others (and have speed dials to ones they trust). The translator will know notaries, and vice versa (granted notaries may not know translators for all possible languages - but they probably know 'translator shops.'

If they can't figure it out - leave and go to a different one. This is bog-standard work for both notaries and translators, and if they don't know how to do it, they should not be in business and you do not want to work with them.

 

[yoli85]

That user has not been on the sight for many months now.

As for your question: stop thinking about it and go to either a notary or a translator and tell them what you need. Almost all I have ever seen (translators and notaries) know how to work with the others (and have speed dials to ones they trust). The translator will know notaries, and vice versa (granted notaries may not know translators for all possible languages - but they probably know 'translator shops.'

If they can't figure it out - leave and go to a different one. This is bog-standard work for both notaries and translators, and if they don't know how to do it, they should not be in business and you do not want to work with them.

Thanks for your answer, I had already checked with both translator and notaries and nobody will give a straightforward answer until I present them with the documents. I was hoping I could skip an extra visit to the notary if I knew beforehand what exactly needs to be certified. But you have made it clear that this world doesn't work like that and things don't get done until you're in front of the person you need to deal with.

Usually translators don't know and don't want to give any information regarding immigration procedures because that is a liability to them. They're not immigration consultants. I had already asked translators and no one has an opinion about it.

Cheers.

 

[armoured]

Where are you trying to do this?

And what language are documents in?

 

[armoured]

Thanks for your answer, I had already checked with both translator and notaries and nobody will give a straightforward answer until I present them with the documents. I was hoping I could skip an extra visit to the notary if I knew beforehand what exactly needs to be certified. But you have made it clear that this world doesn't work like that and things don't get done until you're in front of the person you need to deal with.

Usually translators don't know and don't want to give any information regarding immigration procedures because that is a liability to them. They're not immigration consultants. I had already asked translators and no one has an opinion about it.

So my suspicion (really only a guess, so please don't take offence) is that you are complicating things by talking about immigration - they should not need to know anything about the immigration stuff. Just say it's for 'the Embassy' (if outside Canada).

The logic of what IRCC is asking for is quite simple: they need a certified translation of the document, and they need to have a certified copy of the original attached to the translation. This basic procedure is done almost everywhere in the world in a comparable fashion, with some specifics in different countries (but surprisingly not that many big differences).

In the first case, "certified" means done by a competent translator as defined by whatever procedure certifies translators in the jurisdiction in question. That translator stamps or signs or otherwise affixes a 'statement' to the effect that 'this is a real translation by me.'

That translation is usually attached - often physically - to the copy of the doc that was translated.

Again in most places, the 'standard' for an official doc is that the copy should be a 'real copy of the official doc', attested to (as above) by notary or equivalent (which might include lawyers or commissioners of oaths or whatever) that 'this is a real copy.' In some cases you might have to get the issuing country government or embassy to provide a stamp or the copy itself.

[There is a wrinkle here that notaries in some countries esp in some civil code countries cannot by law 'certify a true copy' of a foreign-language / foreign-issued document, so you eg may not find a notary in Poland to certify your Ukrainian birth certificate. That's sort-of what apostilles are for in countries that do that ('apostillophiles'), and EU has special rules to make this easier within the EU. In short, there are ways to do it, that might involve going to the embassy of the issuing country. Again, notaries and translators are not stupid and usually willling to help with this for a fee. It's their business.]

(This notarising step often left out if what they're translating is not an official doc - e.g. what's app chats or letters or whatever - there's no need to attest it.)

Because this is so bog standard, in countries that I've had to deal with this in (personally and professionally), notaries and translators (or their respective offices or equivalents) routinely do this type of task and either work closely with their opposite numbers or have it as a quasi in-house service to make sure both steps are done.

So I don't know what's going on where you are. But a standard request of "I need a translation plus notarized copy of a local birth certificate to English" in any European country I know of is ... standard work.