Just found out I'm STILL a PR...What to do?

[RedsFan]

Hi Peeps,

To cut a long story short. My family and I emigrated to Canada in 1993 (when I was almost 3 years old) and stayed as permanent residents until 1998. I, now 26, have just attempted to apply for the International Experience, to which my work permit was rejected as I'm a Permanent Resident. Briefly I was over the moon as it appeared I could legally enter Canada and when I found my PR documents, I was basically ready to book my flights. However, after some unreliable information from my mum it seems that it is not quite that simple.

It's my dream to return and I wanted to go back since I was 16/17. If I'd have known about my PR status I would've gone back then and studied etc.

What can I do? What would people suggest I should do to be able to live there? I'd saved up loads of money for IEC and I'm basically ready to go pretty soon.

Thanks guys.

J

 

[Bs65]

The challenge now is that residency obligations since 1998 have not been met so applying for a PR card will likely be a problem and technically you need a PR card or a PR travel document to board a plane. Although the ETA is not fully implemented until end September as you still show as PR you cannot apply for an ETA so travelling by plane without either these can start to get problematic on direct flights to Canada.

Also when you land / arrive in Canada either by air or land border although probably have no issues actually entering there is a possibility being flagged by CBSA for a secondary review given not meeting residency which ultimately could result in PR being cancelled at some point even post landing. PR once initially taken up does not automatically get cancelled that has to be done through a formal renounce document hence the issues people now seeing from PR 20- 30 years ago where residency not maintained and they get noticed when applying for ETA or IEC or some other program.

In theory and really is only theory if you successfully landed and you stayed in the country for 2 years with not even a day out you could refresh the residency but having said that getting a PR card explaining the 18 years absence even though you were a minor at the time could be an obstacle not easily overcome. Add to that you need i believe a PR card to obtain a SIN ( social security number) without which you cannot work so 2 years in the country with possibly no ability to work if you could not sort out the documentation.

In my view and is only mine others will surely comment it is an opportunity missed and even more so although no idea what the citizenship requirements were in 1998 , the fact your family stayed for 5 years in hindsight they may have qualified for citizenship at the time as a future investment.

Similar case here http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/landed-in-1994-wants-to-return-t429181.0.html

At some time if likely you want to go to Canada as a tourist or IEC in future the only option may be to renounce the PR so unfortunately in summary my view is that is an opportunity lost and probably no realistic chance of renewing PR after so long out of the country.

Then again i am not an expert so others will correct me if i have misquoted anything.

 

[Rob_TO]

Right, toughest part here even if he makes it back into Canada without being reported by CBSA is to get a SIN. Without a PR card will need to wait more than 2 years (2 years to get back into compliance with RO, then another 6+ months to get PR card renewal). Any old COPR is no longer possible to get a SIN with, so as far as I know there's no chance to get SIN or work legally for 2-3 years. Not to mention would need to stay inside Canada and not leave for any reason during those first 2 years.

Assuming this would be unacceptable, the only other option I see is to voluntarily renounce PR status, and apply again from scratch under IEC like the original plan.

Or try for a PR TD on H&C grounds based on being removed as a minor. Would probably be refused since you are too old now, but you never know. Worst case it's refused, you lose PR, and continue with IEC plan. Best case it's approved and then you can move back to Canada and apply for PR card renewal immediately.

 

[Leon]

Well, if he immigrated when he was 3 and he is now 26, he probably doesn't have a COPR but an old IMM1000 landing document and those hold a lot more value than a COPR and it may well be possible to get a SIN using one.

I'd suggest to come to Canada as a visitor if you can. If you are able to enter without being reported for being a PR in breach of the RO, your next stop would be Service Canada to find out with your IMM1000 if you already have a SIN that has been put on dormant status and that you can have reactivated or if you can apply for a SIN. If successful, you would be able to work in Canada but you might have a problem getting a drivers license and you might lose out on some job opportunities because the employer may ask to see your non-existant PR card (show the IMM1000 instead). Stay for 2 years straight and then you meet the RO again and your PR status is back in good standing. At that point, you can apply for a PR card.

If you do get reported on entry, you can appeal based on having been removed as a minor although you have a slim chance at winning since you should have returned much earlier for that. However, since these appeals take 1-2 years to process, you are still a PR and can work in Canada at least until your appeal is denied. You can even apply for a PR card while you are under an appeal but it will only have a validity of one year at a time.

 

[Bs65]

Still seems like a very long shot and if achievable then would expect all those people who didnt meet RO to do same thing, even those who had PR 30 years ago and let it lapse through not meeting RO.

First obstacle would of course need to enter as a visitor before Sept 29 th given with PR cannot get an ETA or without residence proof not even a PRTD then as said hope not flagged by CBSA. Then of course leaving after a visit without sorting SIN/PR would still have the same challenges if not returning before Sept 29 th to start the 2 years without a break.

Also stupid question but if showing an IMM 1000 to anyone is that in itself not going to start an investigation into status given a 23 year old document and there may be no record of any PR cards being refreshed since post 1998 implying a lack of meeting RO.

Not sure i understand any H & C reasons even if moved away with family whilst a minor dependant given its not as though an 8 year old would have had the option to be left behind on own in 1998.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Still seems like a very long shot and if achievable then would expect all those people who didnt meet RO to do same thing, even those who had PR 30 years ago and let it lapse through not meeting RO.

Also stupid question but if showing an IMM 1000 to anyone is that in itself not going to start an investigation into status given a 23 year old document and there may be no record of any PR cards being refreshed since post 1998 implying a lack of meeting RO.

Not sure i understand any H & C reasons even if moved away with family whilst a minor dependant given its not as though an 8 year old would have had the option to be left behind on own in 1998.

Most people that don't meet the RO actually DO TRY to do exactly that. This forum is full of hundreds, maybe thousands, of threads solely about PRs entering Canada when they didn't meet the RO.

There is no requirement to have a PR card in Canada. The card itself was only introduced in 2002, long after OP became a PR.

For CIC, being removed as a minor is seen an H&C reason for being allowed to keep PR status. However, this really only works when the person attempts to return to Canada soon after becoming an adult.

 

[Leon]

Still seems like a very long shot and if achievable then would expect all those people who didnt meet RO to do same thing, even those who had PR 30 years ago and let it lapse through not meeting RO.

It is a long shot but has actually worked for a lot of people too. Not many people know that this is possible but CIC rules state that the only period they can consider for a PR RO is the 5 years previous to them applying for something. They even state in their operational manuals that even if a person has been away from Canada for many years, returns to Canada and stays for 2 years, they meet the RO again and keep their PR. However, it's also not ideal, as said, he may have problems getting a SIN and if he does, he will not be able to work. Even though there is no legal requirement to have a PR card, it's being asked for a lot and this might make it impossible or hard for him to get a drivers license for example.

There is another reason why most adults wouldn't do this either and that is family. Obviously if you are in Canada as a PR and don't meet the RO, you can't be applying for stuff from immigration, including sponsorship. Most adults who landed 20-30 years ago have added some members to the family, spouse, kids etc. and trying to do this could mean spending at least 2 years separated from the family until they meet the RO and can apply for a PR card and visit them and later sponsor.

 

[Rob_TO]

Also stupid question but if showing an IMM 1000 to anyone is that in itself not going to start an investigation into status given a 23 year old document and there may be no record of any PR cards being refreshed since post 1998 implying a lack of meeting RO.

If the OP still actually has their IMM1000 form (parents may have lost or thrown it away after moving out of Canada for good 20 years ago), then in order to get a SIN he would only need to attempt to use it with that specific government department. And SIN department is not CIC. So in order for an investigation to start into RO, SIN people would need to inform CIC about OP's situation. They would not know the specifics about how long he was outside Canada, but it would be odd that someone so old is applying for a first SIN.

Whether the various government departments actually report these kinds of things to CIC, I have no idea.

 

[Bs65]

It is a long shot but has actually worked for a lot of people too. Not many people know that this is possible but CIC rules state that the only period they can consider for a PR RO is the 5 years previous to them applying for something. They even state in their operational manuals that even if a person has been away from Canada for many years, returns to Canada and stays for 2 years, they meet the RO again and keep their PR. However, it's also not ideal, as said, he may have problems getting a SIN and if he does, he will not be able to work. Even though there is no legal requirement to have a PR card, it's being asked for a lot and this might make it impossible or hard for him to get a drivers license for example.

There is another reason why most adults wouldn't do this either and that is family. Obviously if you are in Canada as a PR and don't meet the RO, you can't be applying for stuff from immigration, including sponsorship. Most adults who landed 20-30 years ago have added some members to the family, spouse, kids etc. and trying to do this could mean spending at least 2 years separated from the family until they meet the RO and can apply for a PR card and visit them and later sponsor.

I get the impression that as the OP was applying for IEC the rejection of which due to the PR status they may be single so if they want this enough and have the financial resources to move with or without employment initially then maybe staying put for 2 years may not be an issue.

Just the few challenges to overcome like obtaining a SIN if happens to be the first application at 26, a driving licence and then later on PR card. Plus of course the unknown of maybe or maybe not being reported for failing to meet RO whether a minor at the time or not and although the dependant age was only recently dropped from 22 the OP at 26 has been classed as an adult for a few years now. Not sure about any health coverage but assume must qualify at some point.

For sure Sept 29 in my view is the date by which they need to , at least if travelling by plane, to be in Canada given after that not having a PR card or PRTD will cause issues given ETA does not apply for a PR.

Expect there are a few people who let the RO pass who now wanted to to visit Canada applied for an ETA then got panicked into renouncing when some are close to retirement or retired , financially secure with no need to work and in good health could well have retired to Canada taking the 2 year approach, but thats a whole different discussion.

 

[RedsFan]

Thanks for all your replies guys. Really appreciate suggestions and knowledge.

Just to comment on a few things I have read -

With regards to the 2 years to reach RO, potentially without a SIN, I've read on other posts about this and to be honest I don't really want to do that. I understand it potentially could work out for me and allow me to be a PR ongoing, but at my age I don't want to be (potentially) restricted to a lifestyle and would rather everything was 'above board' for peace of mind and personal integrity. If I was convinced the risks were relatively low I would probably go ahead with it but I really want to be able to work.

To clarify I don't have *lots* of money as I'd quoted during my initial post. I'm absolutely not able to support myself for 2 years without working.

An update from my IEC application, a day after my refusal letter CIC sent me another letter that stated if I wanted to renounce my PR, they could continue my IEC application and wouldn't need to start a new application. This surprised me given the bureaucracy I'd expected and basically, I think that as I was probably going to have to either move before end of Sept or renounce my PR and re-apply, this has kind of forced my hand a little bit. I don't HAVE to make a decision, if I don't reply in 10 days nothing changes. But it seems like a reprieve to me. So - if I renounce - and partake in IEC for 2 years - given that I want to stay in Canada for the long term - will I be able to become a PR again in the future if I renounce now? To clarify my aim is to use the 2 year TRV to hopefully gain sponsorship through a company that allows me to stay at the end of my TRV.

And yes I'm single, with no dependants or commitments which are keeping me in the UK.

Thanks again for the replies.

 

[Rob_TO]

will I be able to become a PR again in the future if I renounce now?

Absolutely. As long as you qualify for whatever immigration streams are open at the time, you can apply again for PR in a few years. Your previous PR status should have no effect on that at all.