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Just came back to Canada - Not meeting residency obligation?????

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
15,475
7,877
My advice to you - sit out the two years and don’t travel (I’d you can avoid it) and don’t apply for your card until you are back in Compliance plus a few weeks.
Just to note, the OP seems to be only 80 days short - while we don't know details, it's possible will be back in compliance before two years (up to the OP to calculate carefully).

The other key question - health care - depends very much on provincial requirements.
 

ishaannayyyar

Star Member
Jul 28, 2017
75
28
Preet,

I was in your exact position. I opted to get a lawyer and applied under H & C considerations to renew my PR card. We had solid grounds. Covid hit and has delayed everything. We involved MP for PR Card info and MLA for healthcare. We have been back in compliance for over a year, and we still don’t have our cards. My advice to you - sit out the two years and don’t travel (I’d you can avoid it) and don’t apply for your card until you are back in Compliance plus a few weeks. For sure CBSA have made notes in their files. But you weren’t issued a removal order or anything of the sort, but travelling during these two years will make it difficult to come back into Canada, given your history. I say this also from experience- I spent almost an hour debating my work-required 4-day trip to the US, at the land border when I came back home, and at that time they could see my application was submitted and being processed.
There are a lot of hands at play when renewing your card. They check the border exits, CRA for filings etc… and they may still question the time you were away, but if you are in compliance when you apply, that part of the screening should be straight forward and you may not have any scrutiny.
Not sure what Province you are in, but I think expired cards up to a few years are accepted. When did your card expire?

Also, if you wish to speak off book you can PM me with any questions.
Hi, I am in the same position as you. Would appreciate if we can speak privately on this subject.
 

DreamCanadian

Star Member
Dec 5, 2018
185
37
It is extremely dependent on the border agent you encounter that day and what province you live in when it comes to getting a new health card.
@canuck78 - thanks for your reply.

Please help me with the scenario, If i travel via land do you see what problem i can see with the border agent ?
also i am ok with private health insurance, do you see any other problem ?
 

Ponga

VIP Member
Oct 22, 2013
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You will not be denied re-entry, but you may have issues with things like provincial health coverage and obtaining/renewing a DL, depending on the Province where you are, or will be, living. If the officer determines/suspects that you have not met your R.O., you may be reported, but you would still be allowed entry. All PRs are allowed entry as long as they can prove that, at the time of examination by the CBSA officer, they are in fact a PR; Unless they see that your PR has been revoked or relinquished (you would know of either of those were true) you're fine.
 

DreamCanadian

Star Member
Dec 5, 2018
185
37
You will not be denied re-entry, but you may have issues with things like provincial health coverage and obtaining/renewing a DL, depending on the Province where you are, or will be, living. If the officer determines/suspects that you have not met your R.O., you may be reported, but you would still be allowed entry. All PRs are allowed entry as long as they can prove that, at the time of examination by the CBSA officer, they are in fact a PR; Unless they see that your PR has been revoked or relinquished (you would know of either of those were true) you're fine.
Thanks @Ponga For your Reply.
I dont have any problem with health coverage issue and DL issues.

It is possible that i have been ask to move out of Canada before expiry of PR ?
Assume i am going to enter it and stay for next 2 year continues , At any point is it possible i have been ask to leave country ?

Who can revoke the Status ?

Note # I am not going to relinquished by myself.
 

Ponga

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Oct 22, 2013
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Thanks @Ponga For your Reply.
I dont have any problem with health coverage issue and DL issues.

It is possible that i have been ask to move out of Canada before expiry of PR ?
Assume i am going to enter it and stay for next 2 year continues , At any point is it possible i have been ask to leave country ?

Who can revoke the Status ?

Note # I am not going to relinquished by myself.
Without knowing your details (i.e. how long you have been outside of Canada, etc.), I can only provide the basic info that would pertain to a person that is outside Canada and has not met their Residency Obligation (R.O):

Option 1. (not good, but not the end of your PR status on the spot)
If the CBSA officer that you encounter when re-entering Canada knows, or suspects that you have not met the R.O., the officer may create a report [44(1)] that would be sent to IRCC. You would not be denied re-entry as long as the officer recognizes that you are still a PR, even if you have NOT met the R.O. and are otherwise determined to be admissible to Canada (no criminality, for example). This could lead to the loss or your PR status, but it takes a bit of time. You would eventually attend a hearing and would not lose your PR until a final decision is made from IRCC. If it is a negative decision, you would lose your PR status (unless you chose to appeal) and would have to leave Canada, probably within 30 days +/-.

Option 2. (MUCH better than option 1)
Sames as above but the officer does NOT create the 44(1) report. You may be told that you should remain in Canada for 730 days (some suggest adding a bit more time, just in case) before applying to renew your expired PR card. You decide to take the suggestion and remain in Canada as advised.

Option 3. (Marginally better than option 2).
CBSA officer sees that you are a PR and are let in without much, if any, questioning. You would then do your absolute best to remain in Canada for a minimum of 730 days (some suggest adding a bit more time, just in case) before applying to renew your card.
--

If your status is going to be revoked:

IRCC revokes the status, generally, but if you are determined to be inadmissible by CBSA for reasons other than failing to maintain your R.O., I suspect that they could/would deny entry and may be able to revoke status , but not entirely sure.

Remember that most of us here are just offering opinions based upon what we have found here. Always best to wait for others to chime in.
 

DreamCanadian

Star Member
Dec 5, 2018
185
37
Without knowing your details (i.e. how long you have been outside of Canada, etc.), I can only provide the basic info that would pertain to a person that is outside Canada and has not met their Residency Obligation (R.O):

Option 1. (not good, but not the end of your PR status on the spot)
If the CBSA officer that you encounter when re-entering Canada knows, or suspects that you have not met the R.O., the officer may create a report [44(1)] that would be sent to IRCC. You would not be denied re-entry as long as the officer recognizes that you are still a PR, even if you have NOT met the R.O. and are otherwise determined to be admissible to Canada (no criminality, for example). This could lead to the loss or your PR status, but it takes a bit of time. You would eventually attend a hearing and would not lose your PR until a final decision is made from IRCC. If it is a negative decision, you would lose your PR status (unless you chose to appeal) and would have to leave Canada, probably within 30 days +/-.

Option 2. (MUCH better than option 1)
Sames as above but the officer does NOT create the 44(1) report. You may be told that you should remain in Canada for 730 days (some suggest adding a bit more time, just in case) before applying to renew your expired PR card. You decide to take the suggestion and remain in Canada as advised.

Option 3. (Marginally better than option 2).
CBSA officer sees that you are a PR and are let in without much, if any, questioning. You would then do your absolute best to remain in Canada for a minimum of 730 days (some suggest adding a bit more time, just in case) before applying to renew your card.
--

If your status is going to be revoked:

IRCC revokes the status, generally, but if you are determined to be inadmissible by CBSA for reasons other than failing to maintain your R.O., I suspect that they could/would deny entry and may be able to revoke status , but not entirely sure.

Remember that most of us here are just offering opinions based upon what we have found here. Always best to wait for others to chime in.
Thanks @Ponga ,

this information is very helpful now I know what could be the possible options

My situation is I did soft landing and did not lived for last 4 years , now I have only 1 year left in pr

Another question- I want to avoid the option 1, does land border is safer compared to airport for option 1?
 

Ponga

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Oct 22, 2013
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Thanks @Ponga ,

this information is very helpful now I know what could be the possible options

My situation is I did soft landing and did not lived for last 4 years , now I have only 1 year left in pr

Another question- I want to avoid the option 1, does land border is safer compared to airport for option 1?
No difference between land PoE or airport. The chance of CBSA creating a report under 44(1) is based upon the officer that you encounter, not the PoE that you choose - airport or land.

You can't avoid option one, if that is what the CBSA decides to do.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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Another question- I want to avoid the option 1, does land border is safer compared to airport for option 1?
@Ponga has largely answered what you need to know.

And, in particular, in regards to Port-of-Entry screening of PRs for Residency Obligation compliance, I explicitly agree that there is . . .
No difference between land PoE or airport.

That said, I will quibble slightly with the following:

The chance of CBSA creating a report under 44(1) is based upon the officer that you encounter, not the PoE that you choose - airport or land.
What happens at the PoE is based on the PR's situation. While individual officers will vary some in how strict or aggressive they are, what really matters, what most influences how things go, depends on the facts and circumstances in the particular PR's specific situation.

Key factors include the numbers (days in Canada within the previous five years, or since landing if that was less than five years ago), length of time abroad before the arrival, and the PR's explanation for not returning to Canada sooner. Other details can have some influence, including the PR's demeanor, especially whether the PR is cooperative or, in contrast, seems at all evasive or deceptive.

So, for example, for a PR in breach of the RO, generally it is better to get to Canada sooner.

In particular, this applies to:
-- the chance of being closely examined for RO compliance upon arrival at the PoE​
-- for the PR not in compliance, the chance of a 44(1) Report for inadmissibility being prepared,​
-- and if a Report is prepared, the chance that the Minister's Delegate (a second officer at the PoE) will proceed to issue a Departure or Removal Order based on that Report​

Other than getting to Canada sooner, and being prepared to honestly explain their situation, there is not much a PR can do to affect the factual situation, which in turn is what will mostly determine how it goes on arrival. Again, there can be some slight differences in how this or that officer handles things, but for the most part it does not matter which officer it is or which PoE the PR arrives at (well, unless the PoE seems rather odd for the particular traveler; if after a lengthy absence from Canada a non-American Canadian-PR shows up at the Metaline Falls-Nelway crossing between northeastern Washington State and southeastern B.C., odds are that is going to trigger some further questions).

Additional Note: unless the first officer, the PIL (Primary Inspection Line) officer, waives the PR through without a referral to Secondary, what happens at the PoE is not about what a single officer decides. One officer is the PIL officer, who decides whether to refer the traveler to Secondary. Then there is the officer who conducts the examination in Secondary, and for a PR the worst this officer can do is prepare a 44(1) Report, but if that happens, the PR will then be interviewed by yet another officer (acting as the "Minister's Delegate" but still just another CBSA immigration officer), and it will be that third officer who makes the decision whether to issue a Removal Order or to set aside the 44(1) Report (such as for H&C reasons).

That process can vary some, such as at a smaller PoE the PIL officer can also be the officer conducting a Secondary examination. And if there is a Report prepared, sometimes another officer is not available to review the report so that can be postponed. But there is no decision to terminate a PR's status, which the PR would need to appeal in order to try saving status, unless at least two officers independently decide against the PR.
 

Ponga

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Oct 22, 2013
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@Ponga has largely answered what you need to know.
if after a lengthy absence from Canada a non-American Canadian-PR shows up at the Metaline Falls-Nelway crossing between northeastern Washington State and southeastern B.C., odds are that is going to trigger some further questions).
Sounds like a land border crossing almost as odd as Boundry Bay - Point Roberts!
 

a_ch_

Full Member
Mar 31, 2020
24
4
Hello everyone,
I have a general question regarding my status and situation. Hope someone could help me out in this regard!
I’ve become PR on 11th October 2021. Due to some family & personal issues, I left Canada on 10th November 2021. I have spent whole these months in my country until now!
My PR card will be expired on 2026!

I was just wondering whether there is any problem for me if I want to back to Canada now, after almost 11 months?! And what if I want to stay more in my country, am I allowed or not?!
I would really appreciate it if you can help me out.
 

Ponga

VIP Member
Oct 22, 2013
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Hello everyone,
I have a general question regarding my status and situation. Hope someone could help me out in this regard!
I’ve become PR on 11th October 2021. Due to some family & personal issues, I left Canada on 10th November 2021. I have spent whole these months in my country until now!
My PR card will be expired on 2026!

I was just wondering whether there is any problem for me if I want to back to Canada now, after almost 11 months?! And what if I want to stay more in my country, am I allowed or not?!
I would really appreciate it if you can help me out.
You are worrying for no reason!

Your only [real] obligation to maintain your PR status, is to be physically present in Canada for at least 730 days in each rolling 5 year period. Even if you do not meet this requirement, your PR status does not disappear. Based on your information, you could stay in your country until 10th November 2024, but that would not be advised because you always want to have a bit more than 730 days in Canada for each 5 year period, just to be safe.

Many people do exactly what you did; land as a PR and then leave Canada. Just make sure you understand the residency requirements (and keep track of your travel history because you will need it when you apply for a new PR card when yours is getting close to expiring.