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Income requirement after change in martial status

sappi

Star Member
Oct 24, 2017
50
3
I agree with Rob. A sponsor must meet LICO for the family size at the time of submitting the actual PR application. This has always been the rule and until IRCC specifically publishes something different on the website, it should be assumed that it will continue to be the rule.

I also had a good laugh at the "professionals" comment. The vast majority of the Call Centre staff are poorly trained and can't answer more than the most basic questions.
That is something i agree with. The "vast" majority of the call centre staff are poorly trained. But that is why i talked to two of them and if you read my entire post, the second agent had strong knowledge of her job. So if you are telling me every single agent government hires at the call center are less knowledgeable than us then that is something to laugh at as well.
 

canuck_in_uk

VIP Member
May 4, 2012
31,558
7,196
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
06/12
That is something i agree with. The "vast" majority of the call centre staff are poorly trained. But that is why i talked to two of them and if you read my entire post, the second agent had strong knowledge of her job. So if you are telling me every single agent government hires at the call center are less knowledgeable than us then that is something to laugh at as well.
You can go ahead and laugh but if you have a read through this forum, you will find far more accurate information than the Call Centre provides.
 

sappi

Star Member
Oct 24, 2017
50
3
IRCC requires the sponsor/applicant info to be the same, i.e. you can't change the sponsor or add an applicant that you didn't declare in the interest form. However, family size can always fluctuate, so that can be different and you will certainly not be "severely punished". It is the same if an applicant/dependent were to die between submission of the interest form and the PR app; the family size would be different but it wouldn't matter.
Exactly my point! That is what i am trying to day. My spouse will not be sponsored till application of my parents is done so there's no way my spouse is being a co-signer. Instead like the question5 asks, i will be explaining at the back of the page and putting 0.
 

sappi

Star Member
Oct 24, 2017
50
3
You can go ahead and laugh but if you have a read through this forum, you will find far more accurate information than the Call Centre provides.
Again, I agree. This forum does provide a great information and a lot of times it is better than what IRCC agents tell you. But like I said, this agent knew her job and she was specific about her answers. In the end, we can anything it does not matter. It is not our job, it is their job to provide information and the government agrees with it.
 

canuck_in_uk

VIP Member
May 4, 2012
31,558
7,196
Visa Office......
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App. Filed.......
06/12
Exactly my point! That is what i am trying to day. My spouse will not be sponsored till application of my parents is done so there's no way my spouse is being a co-signer. Instead like the question5 asks, i will be explaining at the back of the page and putting 0.
Sigh. It doesn't matter if she is a co-signer or not. At the time you submit the sponsorship app, she will be your spouse and therefore your dependent, so she must be included in the LICO calculations for all qualifying years.
 

Rob_TO

VIP Member
Nov 7, 2012
11,427
1,551
Toronto
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Seoul, Korea
App. Filed.......
13-07-2012
AOR Received.
18-08-2012
File Transfer...
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Med's Done....
Sent with App
Passport Req..
N/R - Exempt
VISA ISSUED...
30-10-2012
LANDED..........
16-11-2012
I am not at all implying that date of submitting the expression of interest is what matters. I am saying the period of assessment is 2015, 2016, and 2017 for people applying in 2018. I WILL need income requirement for 4 people going forward that i have to maintain till the end of the application. And you got the co-signing part right. My spouse will not be part of my undertaking at the time i fill application for my parents cuz of the timeline it is not possible for me to get everything ready and sponsor my spouse before i fill application for my parents. That is what the agent told me that i will be mentioning about my previous undertaking (sponsoring my parents) when i LATER sponsor my spouse.

In general too, answer me this. I answered truthfully that i have family size of 3 people "currently" during submission of the expression of interest. Now IRCC requires the information has to be same in the application. For example, if i have put my name as "xyz" with a particular date of birth then the application has to reflect the same information for the reference number to be accepted. Now do you think i will not be able to apply just cuz i told the truth to IRCC and the condition changed after that and then i again told them the truth? Going by your "at the time of application" comment, i would be punished severely (not being able to apply cuz major information regarding number of people changed) for telling IRCC the truth that my "current" family size is 3 and not 4 just based on anticipation.
You are missing the point. Look at the 2017 app, and assuming 2018 is structured the same tell me what you would put in for question 5 - spouse. This has nothing to do with spouse being co-signer or if you sponsored them, it's simply the "current" status of your spouse (again not from previous tax year, but "current"). The only way to get your spouse out of your family size calculation for all 3 tax years, is to put "0" here meaning you don't currently have a spouse when you fill in the app, which is obviously not true.

And yes, I see some cases where people will be eligible at time of web-form submission, but then due to change in family size will no longer be eligible at time apps must be completed.
 

sappi

Star Member
Oct 24, 2017
50
3
Sigh. It doesn't matter if she is a co-signer or not. At the time you submit the sponsorship app, she will be your spouse and therefore your dependent, so she must be included in the LICO calculations for all qualifying years.
That's what you believe and like i thank you for suggestion but i would trust that agent more and IF i have any doubt i will call them several times again and then talk to some immigration lawyer. IF in case both the IRCC agents are wrong, I can just delay wedding by 3 -4 months. easy lol. That way at the time of application, I will only have 3 family members and just a few days after that number will go to 4 haha.
 

sappi

Star Member
Oct 24, 2017
50
3
You are missing the point. Look at the 2017 app, and assuming 2018 is structured the same tell me what you would put in for question 5 - spouse. This has nothing to do with spouse being co-signer or if you sponsored them, it's simply the "current" status of your spouse (again not from previous tax year, but "current"). The only way to get your spouse out of your family size calculation for all 3 tax years, is to put "0" here meaning you don't currently have a spouse when you fill in the app, which is obviously not true.

And yes, I see some cases where people will be eligible at time of web-form submission, but then due to change in family size will no longer be eligible at time apps must be completed.
I appreciate you trying to help. I really do. I mean it when i say i will call the IRCC centre again if i have doubt. Like i mentioned in the previous post, I will just delay my wedding by 3-4 months. that way i have family size of 3 people at the time of application.
 

Rob_TO

VIP Member
Nov 7, 2012
11,427
1,551
Toronto
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Seoul, Korea
App. Filed.......
13-07-2012
AOR Received.
18-08-2012
File Transfer...
21-08-2012
Med's Done....
Sent with App
Passport Req..
N/R - Exempt
VISA ISSUED...
30-10-2012
LANDED..........
16-11-2012
That's what you believe and like i thank you for suggestion but i would trust that agent more and IF i have any doubt i will call them several times again and then talk to some immigration lawyer. IF in case both the IRCC agents are wrong, I can just delay wedding by 3 -4 months. easy lol. That way at the time of application, I will only have 3 family members and just a few days after that number will go to 4 haha.
This is by far your safest option, to delay your wedding until you actually submit the app.

No matter what anyone here, or a hundred IRCC agent, or a hundred lawyers tell you, the only opinion that matters will be that of the visa officer actually processing your file. They won't care at all what anyone told you previously, if they see the rules like most people here do and how forms are structured, you will be screwed. We have seen countless cases of both IRCC agents and lawyers getting info completely wrong, causing people's apps to be ultimately rejected.
 

sappi

Star Member
Oct 24, 2017
50
3
This is by far your safest option, to delay your wedding.

No matter what anyone here, or IRCC agent, or a lawyer tells you, the only opinion that matters will be that of the visa officer actually processing your file. They won't care at all what anyone told you previously. We have seen countless cases of both IRCC agents and lawyers getting info completely wrong, causing people's apps to be ultimately rejected.
Yeah that has happened i agree. People get it wrong cuz lawyers told them something that's not correct. Delaying my wedding is something i can easily do if i find out both the agents were wrong. I mean it's only 3-4 months so why take a chance right haha.
 

maxp

Newbie
Feb 4, 2019
4
2
Okay, thanks a lot :)
wrong way to calculate family. Below is how uou do it according to CIC.
Joseph and Anne became common-law partners in 2017. They had a baby in 2018. Joseph wants to sponsor his grandmother and grandfather. Joseph’s grandparents don’t have any dependent children. Anne will be the co-signer.

If Joseph wants to sponsor his grandparents in 2019, Joseph and Anne (together) have to meet the income requirements for 2018, 2017 and 2016.

In 2016, Joseph’s family size was 3:

  • Joseph
  • his grandmother and grandfather
In 2017, Joseph’s family size was 4:

  • Joseph
  • his grandmother and grandfather
  • his partner, Anne
In 2018, Joseph’s family size was 5:

  • Joseph
  • his grandmother and grandfather
  • his partner, Anne
  • his baby
Even though Anne is only included in the family size in 2017, she has to provide her proof of income for 2018, 2017 and 2016, as she’s the co-signer on the application.
 

canuck_in_uk

VIP Member
May 4, 2012
31,558
7,196
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
06/12
wrong way to calculate family. Below is how uou do it according to CIC.
Joseph and Anne became common-law partners in 2017. They had a baby in 2018. Joseph wants to sponsor his grandmother and grandfather. Joseph’s grandparents don’t have any dependent children. Anne will be the co-signer.

If Joseph wants to sponsor his grandparents in 2019, Joseph and Anne (together) have to meet the income requirements for 2018, 2017 and 2016.

In 2016, Joseph’s family size was 3:

  • Joseph
  • his grandmother and grandfather
In 2017, Joseph’s family size was 4:

  • Joseph
  • his grandmother and grandfather
  • his partner, Anne
In 2018, Joseph’s family size was 5:

  • Joseph
  • his grandmother and grandfather
  • his partner, Anne
  • his baby
Even though Anne is only included in the family size in 2017, she has to provide her proof of income for 2018, 2017 and 2016, as she’s the co-signer on the application.
Stop posting this on every thread. As you've already been told in another thread, the rules were changed THIS YEAR, 2019. In the years before, LICO for all 3 years had to be met for family size at the time of applying.
 
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S0324

Full Member
Jul 25, 2018
24
1
India
My sister has applied for my parents through PGP 2019 and got invited to apply. She had the necessary income for 4 members (she, her spouse, my mom, my father) and so she applied without co-sponsor. The deadline to submit the PGP application is June 2019. The time she applied she wasn't expecting a baby, while she is now. Her due date is Nov 2019. She would perfectly satisfy the LICO requirements the time (June 2019) we would submit our application. Now, how this new situation would affect our application?
@canuck_in_uk would you pls help?
 

canuck_in_uk

VIP Member
May 4, 2012
31,558
7,196
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
06/12
My sister has applied for my parents through PGP 2019 and got invited to apply. She had the necessary income for 4 members (she, her spouse, my mom, my father) and so she applied without co-sponsor. The deadline to submit the PGP application is June 2019. The time she applied she wasn't expecting a baby, while she is now. Her due date is Nov 2019. She would perfectly satisfy the LICO requirements the time (June 2019) we would submit our application. Now, how this new situation would affect our application?
@canuck_in_uk would you pls help?
She must meet LICO for 5 people for subsequent years until the app is done. There are no exceptions for maternity leave, so if her income falls below LICO next year because of it, she will no longer qualify as a sponsor. She should add her spouse as a cosigner.
 
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S0324

Full Member
Jul 25, 2018
24
1
India
She must meet LICO for 5 people for subsequent years until the app is done. There are no exceptions for maternity leave, so if her income falls below LICO next year because of it, she will no longer qualify as a sponsor. She should add her spouse as a cosigner.
@canuck_in_uk So, it's enough to demonstrate LICO for 4 people when we submit our application, and after the baby is born, from Nov 19 till the application is processed, we have to demonstrate LICO for 5 people. Am I right?

And is it possible to add her spouse as a cosigner at this stage after the invite? She might fall below LICO if her spouse is not added as a cosigner after the baby is born. Would IRCC consider this and allow us to add cosigner?