in the end of process.default in FMEP. Application refused. what is the solution

[gango girl]

dear forum friends
we need help from you all who has many experiences in this forum
my husband is approved for the sponsorship for my self and my son as the dependent child. now the pr is processing. these days my husband (sponsor) is in my country for 7 months. they asked me to show the ability to financially support my self, my husband, my two kids (one child is a canadian citizen) and husband's 3 children. then i explained how i suppose to survive once we are in canada. but now they have refused us and saying that we are enable to show the ability of financial support our selves which i mentioned above once we come to canada.
and also my husband is in default in family maintenance for about 6 months.
and we have to appeal now so my husband decided to go back to canada and start to do a job again & pay the family maintenance. but please anybody knows give me some suggestions what we have to do?
do you think the CIC need my husband to pay the family maintenance and make it to zero which in default?
and also my sis-in-law has already given a letter saying that she will give her house us to stay once we come to canada without any rental. and also other in-laws are willing to give another letter saying that they are giving us any financial support if we will be in need. my parents who live in my country has given affidavit that they are willing to give any financial support if we will be in need. and also i'm a partner of our family business and i'll be paid my partnership from my family business even though i'm in canada as it is legal by my business registration. and my elder son and I have done some courses and we suppose to work in canada once we come there. so, what else they need?
i have already posted this matter in some other thread but not yet i got a good answer about the family maintenance. please dear friends i need your help
what else they need us to show? which way we show them that we are eligible to financially support our self in canada and dont go for social assistance. my husband is living in canada for about 27 years but has not taken even a cent from social assistance though he was in a hard time. so, we need to be family in his country. and he is a canadian citizen and he cant stay without his children who live in canada. otherwise we can stay in my country. but my husband need to live in canada with everyone as his mother, siblings and all the family also in canada.
what shall we do now?
any answer is most appreciated .....
thnx

 

[scylla]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong - but if you appeal, I don't believe you are allowed to introduce any new information for your case. All you can to is use the information / proof you submitted originally to prove the wrong decision was made by CIC. So providing additional support letters from your family or having your husband start working in Canada won't be possible.

You can only introduce new information if you decide to submit a brand new application.

 

[gango girl]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong - but if you appeal, I don't believe you are allowed to introduce any new information for your case. All you can to is use the information / proof you submitted originally to prove the wrong decision was made by CIC. So providing additional support letters from your family or having your husband start working in Canada won't be possible.

You can only introduce new information if you decide to submit a brand new application.

i dont think so
my husband came down to visit us.
my husband has already done his business (self employing) and a job too. thats why he got approved for the sponsorship. if he cant start working again when he back to canada and submit his situation how he suppose to show his ability to financially support us as he showed earlier? then they would have already rejected us. thats why they asked from us again the ability but they have not clearly asked the ability from me or my husband. thats why i showed my ability. then they have refused us and saying that my husband has not showed his ability. may be they neede my husband to go back and earn and pay the FMEP.
so why cant he start his earning again? and why cant we show our relatives supporting us. they have not asked them in the application. and when the time comes only we have to show them. otherwise who is going to say that our relatives and friends helping in any support we need? in the application?
no... when they ask only we have to show that...
i dont think this is true scylla i'm sorry to tell you that this is a wrong information you have given.
if somebody is in defaults why cant they settle it and show them that they are ok now.
i think i need the correct information from the forum people
thnx for your reply

 

[wowsers]

I do not know the answer to your query but simply point out (1) that the implication of what you write is that you will not be satisfied with any advice which is not in your favour. That does not seem to me the correct attitude to advice given by members of this forum and it is unlikely to advance your case at all. (2) most appeals are of the kind described by Scylla: the function of the appeal court is to examine the decision and to decide whether the decision was warranted by the facts presented to the decision maker. The other type of appeal is a re-hearing with fresh evidence. I think it probable that immigration appeals are of the former kind and that Scylla is probably correct. However, I express no opinion about that. If you want a definite answer, consult an immigration lawyer.

 

[Alurra71]

Based on the previous posts from you, your way of supporting your family revolves around renting properties and such. There are many reasons that your VO continued to question your ability to care for yourself once you relocated to Canada, the least of which was not helped by your husband quitting his job and moving to another country before your PR was even approved.

While it is generally acceptable to do this as a Canadian citizen, he should not have left his job and defaulted on his family maintenance payments helping to put another notch on the negatives for your application.

What CIC wants to see, is concrete ideas and well thought out plans about how and what you will do when you get here to support yourselves. Take a couple courses so we'll get a job isn't really concrete. What kind of courses did you take? What kind of skills did these classes offer that would be an asset to the Canadian workforce and help you to assimilate into your new Canadian country?

Why would you build rental properties rather than keep that money in the bank and use it as a source of funding for a limited amount of time?


Something like this SHOULD have been included when you were asked for more information.

I am afraid that Scylla is correct. They are not going to allow you to now give all kinds of new evidence to show your plan will work they will wonder why you didn't have this information and provide it previously? I think you are going to end up filing an entire new application and honestly, it would likely be quicker for you to do it that way than to appeal the rejection.

If I were you, I would enlist the aid of a reputable lawyer or consultant and have them assist in writing your explanation about how you intend to care for yourself and your family once your PR is received. You explanations, on this forum, so far have all been short term ideas and none of them viable solutions about how to maintain yourself once you get here. Rental properties are not a guaranteed source of income, neither is land for sale or other sales that produce short term money. Get a long term plan together and try again, I think you will then succeed.

Good luck.

 

[gango girl]

I do not know the answer to your query but simply point out (1) that the implication of what you write is that you will not be satisfied with any advice which is not in your favour. That does not seem to me the correct attitude to advice given by members of this forum and it is unlikely to advance your case at all. (2) most appeals are of the kind described by Scylla: the function of the appeal court is to examine the decision and to decide whether the decision was warranted by the facts presented to the decision maker. The other type of appeal is a re-hearing with fresh evidence. I think it probable that immigration appeals are of the former kind and that Scylla is probably correct. However, I express no opinion about that. If you want a definite answer, consult an immigration lawyer.

thnx dear wowsers for your reply
but i mentioned that the CIC asked us to show the proofs of our ability to financially support our selves in canada. but they have not specify which one show the ability, so, i showed my ability now they have refused and saying that my husband has to show the ability
so why is Scylla saying that we cant show the new proof its not new that my husband is showing that he is doing a job again after he back to canada from his visitation of us. that is not a new thing. and also he was approved as a sponsor. and i have heard that in the hearing the people have taken the family members to show that they are with the sponsor for anything when ever they need. but they have not mention that in the application right?
so, when the CIC realized that my husband in defaults and if we have extra support from the family, do you think that they wont accept it?
that is not that i'm not taking advises from the people in the forum i need the correct details. many has told that its better that i can show the family & friend's help in the appeal. you mean then they are wrong?
I needed more suggestions from my forum friends. i'm still most appreciated the replies
& thank you again

 

[gango girl]

Based on the previous posts from you, your way of supporting your family revolves around renting properties and such. There are many reasons that your VO continued to question your ability to care for yourself once you relocated to Canada, the least of which was not helped by your husband quitting his job and moving to another country before your PR was even approved.

While it is generally acceptable to do this as a Canadian citizen, he should not have left his job and defaulted on his family maintenance payments helping to put another notch on the negatives for your application.

What CIC wants to see, is concrete ideas and well thought out plans about how and what you will do when you get here to support yourselves. Take a couple courses so we'll get a job isn't really concrete. What kind of courses did you take? What kind of skills did these classes offer that would be an asset to the Canadian workforce and help you to assimilate into your new Canadian country?
thank you dear

Why would you build rental properties rather than keep that money in the bank and use it as a source of funding for a limited amount of time?


Something like this SHOULD have been included when you were asked for more information.

I am afraid that Scylla is correct. They are not going to allow you to now give all kinds of new evidence to show your plan will work they will wonder why you didn't have this information and provide it previously? I think you are going to end up filing an entire new application and honestly, it would likely be quicker for you to do it that way than to appeal the rejection.

If I were you, I would enlist the aid of a reputable lawyer or consultant and have them assist in writing your explanation about how you intend to care for yourself and your family once your PR is received. You explanations, on this forum, so far have all been short term ideas and none of them viable solutions about how to maintain yourself once you get here. Rental properties are not a guaranteed source of income, neither is land for sale or other sales that produce short term money. Get a long term plan together and try again, I think you will then succeed.

Good luck.

thank you dear Alurra71 for your long description.
my husband is a canadian citizen so he can go out of the country when the process is going on. it is heard from this forum. and also when cic asked the ability from us i have submitted my ability but they need from my husband's ability and so they have given only 30 days for us to show the proofs. so we have not sent the correct way so, thats why we were refused. and also CIC also has asked to not to sell any property if an applicant has till they get the visa. so, in that case we have not sold our properties and we have already buyers for our properties legally. and also as i told you we have given my ability not the sponsors ability. so in that case my husband should back to canada and start his job again and should show his ability to financially support for us because we have mentioned that he would go back to canada and would start his job again. so they need proof of it i think. the evidence i mentioned earlier are not going to give newly. but the way we showed is incorrect because we have showed by me not by my husband. so we have got wrong or they have not mentioned it properly. so we thought they are asking the ability from me. so they refused us as we have not showed that my husband has the ability. because it should be showed by my husband. and the time was given also passed in that time.
i think only thing we have done is my husband in defaults of payments not not earning. so, do you think that though he could be approved as the sponsor the way he earned that time and also he was paying the FMEP. we had not to show any additional support when we apply the application so, is it not necessary to when they ask to show the extra help from the family?
when sometimes the people refused as marriage is not genuine only they get the letters from the family and the friends saying that they know as they are husband and wife. that is the additional support for the appeal isnt it? they have not shown those additional supports when they submit the application isnt it? some people submit some proofs when they were refused and when they face to the appeal hearing. if we cant give the extra additional proofs in the appeal for what they go for the appeal?
they have given a chance to the people to show additional proofs and show that they are eligible or genuine or what ever. otherwise what is for the appeal hold on? to give new proofs.
once i refused as i have not sent the correct document. i sent the additional extra documents to cic after they closed my file. but they have accepted them.
And also i have done a international qualified Montessori diploma and also was teaching in and international school. and i have already mentioned that in my application. and also my son was studying when i applied but now he has done an international qualified hotel school course. so how i suppose to mentioned that in my application? they also know that he has done it recently. we have not given any false and fake things to cic. we are giving everything which we have and which we can. but sometimes we have forgotten to mentioned and provide. so thats why my dear forum friends we asked from you all.

so i dont think that you all are wrong. but i asked more proofs for my husband to show them that he is eligible to financially support us when we come to canada.
thnx again

 

[canuck_in_uk]

thnx dear wowsers for your reply
but i mentioned that the CIC asked us to show the proofs of our ability to financially support our selves in canada. but they have not specify which one show the ability, so, i showed my ability now they have refused and saying that my husband has to show the ability
so why is Scylla saying that we cant show the new proof its not new that my husband is showing that he is doing a job again after he back to canada from his visitation of us. that is not a new thing. and also he was approved as a sponsor. and i have heard that in the hearing the people have taken the family members to show that they are with the sponsor for anything when ever they need. but they have not mention that in the application right?

It would a lot faster and cheaper to submit a new application instead of an appeal.

Your husband needs to pay back his family maintenance, as you stand no chance of being approved while he is in default. How is he supposed to be financially responsible for 2 more people when he can't even support his other children?

 

[gango girl]

It would a lot faster and cheaper to submit a new application instead of an appeal.

Your husband needs to pay back his family maintenance, as you stand no chance of being approved while he is in default. How is he supposed to be financially responsible for 2 more people when he can't even support his other children?

you are correct dear so, we suppose to pay the defaults of payments and he was not in the country and will continue the payments. and he is appealing from vancouver. my goodness dear canuck-in-uk i cant even think about apply again. because it took about 3 years to come to this end of this process as they have misplaced our application set and bla bla bla...
so i think god is with the genuine people and will help us too.
anyway thank you for your reply

 

[Eagle333]

HI gango,

I am so sorry that you still dealing with this immigration process as you said it took 3 years now. Did your husband win the appeal? I hope you can withdraw it like forum members said then reapply with new evidences.

 

[canadianwoman]

my husband is a canadian citizen so he can go out of the country when the process is going on.

Yes, he can sponsor while living abroad, but as you found out, the visa officer still has to be satisfied that the sponsor can support the family. Since he was in default of his child support, it was obvious he might have trouble supporting 3 more family members.

and also when cic asked the ability from us i have submitted my ability but they need from my husband's ability

Any proof of support would have been fine: proof that you could get a job, proof that you and your husband had property, proof of your husband's ability to get a job, support from family members. All should have been included.

and also CIC also has asked to not to sell any property if an applicant has till they get the visa. so, in that case we have not sold our properties

When CIC says this, they just mean that there is no guarantee that the visa will be issued, and so prospective immigrants should not quit their jobs, sell property, or buy plane tickets to Canada on the assumption that they will get the visa. Of course you can sell property if you want to. In any case, showing proof you have property, and potential buyers, and explaining you would be selling it to raise money for your new life in Canada would have been good proof.

so in that case my husband should back to canada and start his job again and should show his ability to financially support for us

Yes, I think it would be a big help if he came back to Canada and started working again.
He should also pay the child support that is in default, and continue paying on time. The visa officer clearly thought that since he was in default, this was proof he could not support even more family members.

we had not to show any additional support when we apply the application so, is it not necessary to when they ask to show the extra help from the family?

CIC will not ask you to show support from family members: this is just something that applicants can add to the application to help show they 1. have a plan in place for their life in Canada, and 2. are able to support their family without going on social assistance. This is something that should have been in the original application. You can add it to the appeal or new application, however. You should also add the new qualifications you, your husband, and your son have.

And an immigration appeal is de novo - that means new evidence can be used. However, the judge will put more emphasis on the evidence that was before the visa officer, simply because it is possible to manufacture evidence once the applicant sees why he or she was refused.
A judicial review of a failed appeal is not de novo - in that case, the judge is looking at whether the appeal court judge made a reasonable decision given the evidence before him or her, and will not look at new evidence.
It seems to me you would be going to a regular immigration appeal, in which case the new evidence you have is usable. You could also just reapply, making sure you use all the evidence people have mentioned to show your sponsor can support the family once you get your visas.

 

[gango girl]

HI gango,

I am so sorry that you still dealing with this immigration process as you said it took 3 years now. Did your husband win the appeal? I hope you can withdraw it like forum members said then reapply with new evidences.

hi dear Eagle how are you? i'm happy that you are still with me.
yes dear eagle we won the appeal at that time and the IAD asked only the documents which i failed to send to the visa office and a detailed explanation letter from my husband, why i failed to send the correct document when they request them from me. so we sent the letter and the correct document also again to the IAD and they accepted them and asked us to withdraw the appeal and then they allowed to the visa office to reopen my file.
then at the same time my husband came down to visit us and we supposed to build our hose and he wanted to stay with us till i finish construction on my house. actually we wanted to build that house because we thought after we won the appeal they will issue the visa and we wanted to sell our land to purchase that money as a down payment to buy a house in canada. so, my house was a half built one and theres a person who liked to buy that house for the real; valuation of it and he did not want the land with half built house. so we promised him to complete the house and give it but after we get the visa. so, we made an agreement for it and i planned to build the house and rent it away till i get the visa to sell it.
so thats the story and actually i asked my husband to go back but he didnt want to leave me as i cant handle everything alone with my small child. and also he started his schooling 2 days ago and i have to run here and there with this small child. so, as a husband he did a good thing but because of the FMEP, i asked him to go back and also we paid that for about 3 months with the money which my husband had in his account. and wanted to go back and pay the default.
but then cic requested from me to send the proof to show my ability to financially support to myself , my husband , my children and my husband's children too. so, i sent the proof the way i could and i showed how we supposed to survive in canada without go for social assistance. but then they have refused us saying that my husband has not showed his ability to financially support ourselves in canada. but they did not specify which one to show the ability in the requesting letter. so, we thought that they asked about my ability but they meant my husband's ability. what ever thats ok dear and everything is done for the best. because though we get the visa in this time i cant go in a hurry as still my house is on construction. and also they might considering about the default in payments. so, my husband is going to appeal again and hope to pay the defaults. and all of my husband's family who live in canada and my family who live in my country, willing to give any support anytime when ever we are in need. and they will give an affidavit for it. and also dear Eagle i believe that still the God is with us. because we are genuine. and also we are suffering because of this visa thing we cant live together even in one country peacefully.
my husband's x-spouse left him and took everything from my husband. vehicles, money stuff and many more. and my husband had a two storied, 4 bed roomed house for him and that woman needed him to sell that house and give a half from it. and she wanted to sell that land for very cheap as she wanted money soon and after he sold it she told that she need all the money from the house. so, my husband kept only $5000 dollars to empty the house and dump the stuff and he gave all the remaining to her hand. so, god knows that too. i dont take from my husband and i support him by not taking from him as he is in a big stress with all of these stuff and he has to stay away from his family and all the other children. because of i love my husband very much. but we are still suffering and many of fake people are getting the visa and going very soon. because of the fake people we have to suffer. i hope that the god will help us. will pray dear and i hope that many of in this forum may pray for the genuine families who are still suffering ....
god bless to all....!!!!
thank you very again for being with me still my dear friend and hope that you two are united and have a good life in canada....

 

[gango girl]

It would a lot faster and cheaper to submit a new application instead of an appeal.

Your husband needs to pay back his family maintenance, as you stand no chance of being approved while he is in default. How is he supposed to be financially responsible for 2 more people when he can't even support his other children?

yes dear canuck_in_uk
i realized that part and my husband is going to pay it back.
thank you for your reply

 

[gango girl]

Based on the previous posts from you, your way of supporting your family revolves around renting properties and such. There are many reasons that your VO continued to question your ability to care for yourself once you relocated to Canada, the least of which was not helped by your husband quitting his job and moving to another country before your PR was even approved.

While it is generally acceptable to do this as a Canadian citizen, he should not have left his job and defaulted on his family maintenance payments helping to put another notch on the negatives for your application.

What CIC wants to see, is concrete ideas and well thought out plans about how and what you will do when you get here to support yourselves. Take a couple courses so we'll get a job isn't really concrete. What kind of courses did you take? What kind of skills did these classes offer that would be an asset to the Canadian workforce and help you to assimilate into your new Canadian country?

Why would you build rental properties rather than keep that money in the bank and use it as a source of funding for a limited amount of time?


Something like this SHOULD have been included when you were asked for more information.

I am afraid that Scylla is correct. They are not going to allow you to now give all kinds of new evidence to show your plan will work they will wonder why you didn't have this information and provide it previously? I think you are going to end up filing an entire new application and honestly, it would likely be quicker for you to do it that way than to appeal the rejection.

If I were you, I would enlist the aid of a reputable lawyer or consultant and have them assist in writing your explanation about how you intend to care for yourself and your family once your PR is received. You explanations, on this forum, so far have all been short term ideas and none of them viable solutions about how to maintain yourself once you get here. Rental properties are not a guaranteed source of income, neither is land for sale or other sales that produce short term money. Get a long term plan together and try again, I think you will then succeed.

Good luck.

hi dear thanks for your reply and we have not done just courses but some courses and a diploma in montisoori and child care and also my son did a hotel school diploma.
yes we have done a big mistake by quitting his job and come down to visit us. but he did not want to quit the job but after he came down only we decided to build our house and i have already given a detailed explanation to Eagle333 and you can go through that. yes dear my husband has decided to go back & solve these problems very soon
the most big problem in our case is the default fees and my husband's income
so we are going to solve it soon.
thanks again

 

[gango girl]

Yes, he can sponsor while living abroad, but as you found out, the visa officer still has to be satisfied that the sponsor can support the family. Since he was in default of his child support, it was obvious he might have trouble supporting 3 more family members.

yes dear we have planned to pay the default soon.

Any proof of support would have been fine: proof that you could get a job, proof that you and your husband had property, proof of your husband's ability to get a job, support from family members. All should have been included.

yes we have all proofs thnx

When CIC says this, they just mean that there is no guarantee that the visa will be issued, and so prospective immigrants should not quit their jobs, sell property, or buy plane tickets to Canada on the assumption that they will get the visa. Of course you can sell property if you want to. In any case, showing proof you have property, and potential buyers, and explaining you would be selling it to raise money for your new life in Canada would have been good proof.

yes we already have proof of selling one of my property

Yes, I think it would be a big help if he came back to Canada and started working again.
He should also pay the child support that is in default, and continue paying on time. The visa officer clearly thought that since he was in default, this was proof he could not support even more family members.

yes of course dear thats why he is going to pay it. and it was happened because he is here for 7 months for now.
we will solve it soon thnx

CIC will not ask you to show support from family members: this is just something that applicants can add to the application to help show they 1. have a plan in place for their life in Canada, and 2. are able to support their family without going on social assistance. This is something that should have been in the original application. You can add it to the appeal or new application, however. You should also add the new qualifications you, your husband, and your son have.

dear friend my husband has approved as a sponsor already and it was happened because of he was living here with us for about 7 months and fall into default in payments. so and now he will go back to canada and earn the way he was. and he was approved with the same qualifications and he will do as the same. and i believe all will be ok very soon.

And an immigration appeal is de novo - that means new evidence can be used. However, the judge will put more emphasis on the evidence that was before the visa officer, simply because it is possible to manufacture evidence once the applicant sees why he or she was refused.

yes i realized this part and the people are not be still in one position every day and will be updated every day , every minute. so we cant say that if we have not submitted anything when we apply the application if we done something after we applied the application, why we cant update that to CIC.
ex: my son have not done a diploma when we applied the application and now he has done an international qualified hotel school diploma. so, why cant I update that to the CIC?
some times i get annoyed and also getting so upset by some answers but i appreciate you because you have shown me the dangerous part and the solution too.

A judicial review of a failed appeal is not de novo - in that case, the judge is looking at whether the appeal court judge made a reasonable decision given the evidence before him or her, and will not look at new evidence.

yes i have heard this too. so, wish to not go for this situation.

It seems to me you would be going to a regular immigration appeal, in which case the new evidence you have is usable. You could also just reapply, making sure you use all the evidence people have mentioned to show your sponsor can support the family once you get your visas.

thank you very much dear canadianwoman your reply is very helpful and made me more strong


And also thanks for everybody who replied me
wish you all god bless