IMM 5604 and an ex who made renege after signing

[AlexCalcaneus]

My Thai wife who currently has her PR in process has two daughters with her ex. Up till now he wouldn't give his daughter's permission to become Canadian resident but now he says he will sign the 5604 form. They had an abusive relationship and he often uses the children as pawns to get at her. If he actually does get to signing I don't see it as something from the bottom of his heart.

Being the untrusting kind of guy I am I think he has ulterior motive. What is the legal basis for his daughters being in Canada and him changing his mind about allowing them to be here?

He wants my wife to sign an agreement with 10 conditions about the children but if she signs this agreement how enforceable is it in Canada?

The last condition is if she doesn't fulfill the previous 9 then he gets custody of the kids.

In my mind once the kids are here there's very little he can do legally. It will cost the price of international lawyers at North American prices not Thai prices and I doubt he can pay for one.

Thanks in advance.

 

[armoured]

The only correct answer is you need proper legal advice, and likely both in Canada and Thailand.

But (only my non-lawyer point of view): your intuition is probably correct, that there is very little he could do once they are in Canada. There are some important caveats - without speculating, depending on the form of granting custody that he gives. If he drew these conditions up himself, entirely possible that they won't be enforceable in Canada (unless clearly for the benefit of the children). On the other hand, it is conceivable that a smart lawyer would have built in something that would cause problems later.

So it would really be bad speculation to say you're okay without getting proper legal advice. You really would need a lawyer to confirm that the custody arrangement is sufficiently irrevocable in Canada to be comfortable.

One major caveat: if the children return to Thailand at any time before they get to 18, you and your spouse could face serious issues that could take ages to resolve. Even with very good legal advice, you don't want to face a situation of having to wait years to get something resolved (if, for example, he can get an injunction forbidding them to leave Thailand until the courts decide). So you may want to face the issue early that if you decide to go this route, for safety you might never want them to return home.

If his conditions include such things as them visiting him, it could get very messy (esp if the custody arrangements are 'joint').

Just my thoughts, not a lawyer. Sounds painful. And I'm sympathetic, we have had some similar issues with my stepchildren/spouse's ex-husband - resolved mainly because they are close enough to 18 that he's stopped pretending he gives a damn and signed the necessary.

 

[AlexCalcaneus]

The only correct answer is you need proper legal advice, and likely both in Canada and Thailand.

But (only my non-lawyer point of view): your intuition is probably correct, that there is very little he could do once they are in Canada. There are some important caveats - without speculating, depending on the form of granting custody that he gives. If he drew these conditions up himself, entirely possible that they won't be enforceable in Canada (unless clearly for the benefit of the children). On the other hand, it is conceivable that a smart lawyer would have built in something that would cause problems later.

So it would really be bad speculation to say you're okay without getting proper legal advice. You really would need a lawyer to confirm that the custody arrangement is sufficiently irrevocable in Canada to be comfortable.

One major caveat: if the children return to Thailand at any time before they get to 18, you and your spouse could face serious issues that could take ages to resolve. Even with very good legal advice, you don't want to face a situation of having to wait years to get something resolved (if, for example, he can get an injunction forbidding them to leave Thailand until the courts decide). So you may want to face the issue early that if you decide to go this route, for safety you might never want them to return home.

If his conditions include such things as them visiting him, it could get very messy (esp if the custody arrangements are 'joint').

Just my thoughts, not a lawyer. Sounds painful. And I'm sympathetic, we have had some similar issues with my stepchildren/spouse's ex-husband - resolved mainly because they are close enough to 18 that he's stopped pretending he gives a damn and signed the necessary.

Thank you I appreciate it. He actually did write up the agreement himself that's why I like it. I remember I made an agreement a long time ago with my ex-wife and we took it to the notary and he refused to sign for us because he said it wasn't enforceable.

He never actually took an interest in his daughter's until he found out that I was seeing his ex who he's been trying to get back with ever since he found out about me. Strangely he's been a dick to her while trying to get back to with her.
The kids don't want to go with him when it's their time currently and he actually refuses to bring the kids back from time to time just to be a dick to all of them. He also owes over 2 years of child support which is probably worth about ten thousand CAD. If that isn't enforceable I have faith a document drawn up by somebody with a 9th grade education won't be either but that's not the point.

I lived in Costa Rica for 8 years and family was everything. In Thailand it seems like family is nothing so my wife tells me she has nothing to go back for.

I have no need to go to Thailand either but it's not me giving up my homeland.

I understand I need legal advice but I thought I would feel out the process.

In three years the kids will be Canadian citizens and it would be awfully hard to extradite them but I don't think it would get to that point. He has no money.

I'm sure the casual reader might equate it to stealing kids but I don't see it that way.

Thanks again for the ideas

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Thank you I appreciate it. He actually did write up the agreement himself that's why I like it. I remember I made an agreement a long time ago with my ex-wife and we took it to the notary and he refused to sign for us because he said it wasn't enforceable.

He never actually took an interest in his daughter's until he found out that I was seeing his ex who he's been trying to get back with ever since he found out about me. Strangely he's been a dick to her while trying to get back to with her.
The kids don't want to go with him when it's their time currently and he actually refuses to bring the kids back from time to time just to be a dick to all of them. He also owes over 2 years of child support which is probably worth about ten thousand CAD. If that isn't enforceable I have faith a document drawn up by somebody with a 9th grade education won't be either but that's not the point.

I lived in Costa Rica for 8 years and family was everything. In Thailand it seems like family is nothing so my wife tells me she has nothing to go back for.

I have no need to go to Thailand either but it's not me giving up my homeland.

I understand I need legal advice but I thought I would feel out the process.

In three years the kids will be Canadian citizens and it would be awfully hard to extradite them but I don't think it would get to that point. He has no money.

I'm sure the casual reader might equate it to stealing kids but I don't see it that way.

Thanks again for the ideas

I suggest you seek qualified legal advice and stay off of forums for this. Note that Thailand and Canada are both signatories to the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction.

 

[AlexCalcaneus]

I suggest you seek qualified legal advice and stay off of forums for this. Note that Thailand and Canada are both signatories to the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction.

That is great advice to stay off forums. Most of the idiots don't read the whole post. Like you. The title of the post is what if the ex renegs on signing IMM5604. If he signs it and the kids are in Canada and he tries to renege on it, it's not child abduction. He signed a legal document. I'm sorry if I confused you with the fact that he's an asshole and he tends to do things like that but I thought the more facts I added in it would help.

To make it easier for you and the other people that don't read the whole post I've broken it down into point form.

1) He signs the Canadian immigration document IMM 5604 that lets his children come to Canada.
2) what happens if he changes his mind when the kids are in Canada.

Pretty simple and I don't think it's abduction if he signs the document but I will take your advice and get legal advice to see if it's considered abduction if he signs the document.

The big question is because I've seen it before in the three years that I've been with my wife that he says one thing and does another and nothing comes from his heart it comes from revenge. If I can quote myself in my original document I said that I don't trust him or his motives.

I'm still trying to see how this could be abduction.

What I want to know is the legal process which I'm pretty sure I mentioned in the first post just in case he does to try to change his mind.

I'm sorry if I put more into the post to confuse you.

So if he signs a document and the kids are in Canada legally that is abduction? I did not know this but I am glad that you gave me great legal advice.

You said I shouldn't ask questions on a forum like this but you gave such great answers that your advice to stay off forums like this is rather moot.

Stay in the UK. That's my advice on this forum

 

[canuck_in_uk]

That is great advice to stay off forums. Most of the idiots don't read the whole post. Like you. The title of the post is what if the ex renegs on signing IMM5604. If he signs it and the kids are in Canada and he tries to renege on it, it's not child abduction. He signed a legal document. I'm sorry if I confused you with the fact that he's an asshole and he tends to do things like that but I thought the more facts I added in it would help.

To make it easier for you and the other people that don't read the whole post I've broken it down into point form.

1) He signs the Canadian immigration document IMM 5604 that lets his children come to Canada.
2) what happens if he changes his mind when the kids are in Canada.

Pretty simple and I don't think it's abduction if he signs the document but I will take your advice and get legal advice to see if it's considered abduction if he signs the document.

The big question is because I've seen it before in the three years that I've been with my wife that he says one thing and does another and nothing comes from his heart it comes from revenge. If I can quote myself in my original document I said that I don't trust him or his motives.

I'm still trying to see how this could be abduction.

What I want to know is the legal process which I'm pretty sure I mentioned in the first post just in case he does to try to change his mind.

I'm sorry if I put more into the post to confuse you.

So if he signs a document and the kids are in Canada legally that is abduction? I did not know this but I am glad that you gave me great legal advice.

You said I shouldn't ask questions on a forum like this but you gave such great answers that your advice to stay off forums like this is rather moot.

Stay in the UK. That's my advice on this forum

Screw off the forum then. I read the post and you clearly don't understand that actual situation yourself.

 

[AlexCalcaneus]

Screw off the forum then. I read the post and you clearly don't understand that actual situation yourself.

Bro I think you should do what Boris Johnson said and work on herd immunity. Head down to all of the icu's and get yourself immune from the virus. Just don't abduct any viruses because of the Hague convention

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Bro I think you should do what Boris Johnson said and work on herd immunity. Head down to all of the icu's and get yourself immune from the virus. Just don't abduct any viruses because of the Hague convention

Not a bro. I'm a Canadian living in Canada. What a great fucking person you are to make stupid jokes about COVID-19 while people are dying from it. How about you stay out of Canada...

 

[AlexCalcaneus]

Not a bro. I'm a Canadian living in Canada. What a great fucking person you are to make stupid jokes about COVID-19 while people are dying from it. How about you stay out of Canada...

Once again you don't understand. It wasn't a joke. Go get some herd immunity no matter where you are

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Once again you don't understand. It wasn't a joke. Go get some herd immunity no matter where you are

Which just goes to show how fucked up you really are....