IEC + Partner sponship/OWP -> Implied status: to work or not to work?

[RajaJi]

When in doubt, it's usually best to `err on the side of caution'.

As difficult as it would be to stop working (temporarily), it's far better than finding out that you were in fact working without authorization...which could have devastating consequences.

I've seen this debate soooo many times around here and still shake my head. Why can't CIC make this crystal clear?!?!

CIC = Continuos In Confusing. Noooo, it is Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

 

[Rob_TO]

I couldn't agree more, unfortunately it doesn't seem like CIC will be provide any official documentation relating to this specific case any time soon.

No matter what "definitive" answer you may get, just know that people in the exact same situation (applying for OWP with inland PR and continuing to work on expired IEC) have been caught by CIC during their PR processing, and had AIP refused and PR app delayed significantly.

If it was perfectly legal to continue working on IEC with implied status, then nobody would be caught as there would be nothing illegal going on. The very fact people have been caught and faced the consequences, should tell you it's illegal to do. And the fact so many people aren't caught, tells you CIC is pretty bad at actually enforcing this rule.

 

[RajaJi]

No matter what "definitive" answer you may get, just know that people in the exact same situation (applying for OWP with inland PR and continuing to work on expired IEC) have been caught by CIC during their PR processing, and had AIP refused and PR app delayed significantly.

If it was perfectly legal to continue working on IEC with implied status, then nobody would be caught as there would be nothing illegal going on. The very fact people have been caught and faced the consequences, should tell you it's illegal to do. And the fact so many people aren't caught, tells you CIC is pretty bad at actually enforcing this rule.

This is like driving on the Highway above the Speed Limit. Few who are pulled over get a ticket and some may be let go with a Warning. The ones who are not pulled over are also in Violation of the Law. If you do not want to be the one who gets a Ticket, drive within the Speed Limit else Keep an Eye looking in The Rear View Mirror.

 

[Rob_TO]

This is like driving on the Highway above the Speed Limit. Few who are pulled over get a ticket and some may be let go with a Warning. The ones who are not pulled over are also in Violation of the Law. If you do not want to be the one who gets a Ticket, drive within the Speed Limit else Keep an Eye looking in The Rear View Mirror.

Actually if CIC was running this, they wouldn't simply put the speed at 100 km/h in an easy to read sign. They would provide a complex math formula where you have to figure out the answer to get the speed limit, leading to people getting different results of what the max speed is

 

[ADBabs]

Hello renoreaper,

Thank you for raising this issue. Please could you comment on your outcome regarding you crossing the boarder. Did you get your work permit then ?

Thanks

 

[renoreaper]

Hello renoreaper,

Thank you for raising this issue. Please could you comment on your outcome regarding you crossing the boarder. Did you get your work permit then ?

Thanks

Hello ADbabs, I haven't left the country since I submitted my application, however the work permit pilot program for partner sponsorship did take a bit longer than the quoted four months.
I ended up calling the call centre a few times to get a status update and my work permit did finally get approved and sent out last week (about 1.5 months past the 4 months mark).

Once I have the work permit I will probably cross the border occasionally for work/leisure, I think that shouldn't be a problem since I'd have the work permit.

When it comes to the actual PR application I probably will not hear back from that until some time in 2016 I believe, but in order to activate that one I probably would not flagpole but instead have a meeting with an officer somewhere nearby (I believe this was an option, at least I was told as much by a call centre agent).

There is still the whole issue about working on Implied status coming out of an IEC visa, I'm honestly still not entirely sure what the deal is with that. I'm hoping/thinking it just won't come up anymore, but I'll see what happens, if I get more feedback or any tangible documentation regarding that specific issue I'll come back and post it here.

 

[haliaussie]

Note the correspondence from CIC:
Participants in international youth exchange programs (e.g., Student Work Abroad Program (SWAP), International Experience Canada (IEC) or Working Holiday Program (WHP)) do not benefit from implied status, unless extending a work permit not initially issued for the time limit authorized by the program.

Can you please expand on this quote?
My situation - applied for spousal sponsorship (outland) in Oct 2014 (wife is Canadian). Estimated to be finalised late 2015 or early 2016. We wanted to move to Canada earlier as wife is pregnant, so we moved in April 2015, with my status being an IEC WHP applied for in March 2015 and granted in April 2015. (I'm Australian). Should be a 2 year visa, but for unknown reasons the visa had an expiry of mid-Sept 2015.
As per CIC call centre advice, I sent an application to extend the work permit to the Vegreville, AB office. Sent early July, still awaiting a reply. I believe it can take 3 months or more.
Does implied status apply in my case? As although the IEC work permit cannot be extended (as mentioned multiple times in this thread), in my case the work permit was "not initially issued for the time limit authorized by the program"
Please advise if implied status applies to my specific case to be able to
a) remain in Canada and / or
b) work in Canada
until the earliest of receiving a response on my IEC extension/correction, and receiving PR.

Thanks

 

[kangamoose]

From my understanding of the IEC (I'm on my second) its the discretion of the border agent that determines how long the permit is granted for, its not automatically the 2 years. Although yours does seem unusually short. You should be able to remain in Canada until the decision is made, however once the permit expires I would er on the side of caution and stop working. As the permit can't be extended like you stated, if it was me I'd assume that the extension request is going to be rejected and apply for a visitor extension. You won't be able to work but you could remain in Canada. It sux that they changed the rules of the IEC this year, you could have just applied for another one..

 

[haliaussie]

Thanks
In fact the border agent had no choice, as the Letter of Introduction had the expiry date on it. The agent said it was a CIC issue.
Nobody at CIC has been able to eplain why my LOI (issued April 2015) had an expiry date of Sept 2015. They just advise to send off the application to change conditions.
Normally the LOI is valid to use at entry for one year, where you then get a 2 year permit.
I have yet to hear of any other instances of this for Aussies coming to Canada in 2015 having applied through the new system.

 

[kangamoose]

Oh that's weird, maybe you have a shot at extending it then if its their mistake.

Looking at the processing times on the website they're only up to April, so you have a while to wait still. Hopefully your PR is approved while you're waiting

Maybe try looking at the IEC thread for similar problems?

 

[Aquakitty]

Actually if CIC was running this, they wouldn't simply put the speed at 100 km/h in an easy to read sign. They would provide a complex math formula where you have to figure out the answer to get the speed limit, leading to people getting different results of what the max speed is

Haha that's so true, except they wouldn't show any solution to the formula anywhere on their website, and 99% of their help centre staff wouldn't know it either.

 

[bp1221]

Ok, so having now read just about every thread on this on the internet and particularly this forum enough that i recognise certain usernames as having beef with others and everything I'm going to throw this in there in case anyone is looking for the border security episode in question: (i can't post links)

goo .gl /kO 3m Fs

fast forward to the 6m mark and you'll have your example with one statement from the border agent,

"This permit is not renewable, you were ok to stay in canada because you applied to extend your stay but you have to stop work on that day."

That's as good as a primary reference I've seen on any forum anywhere and who knows if its slightly out of context but it seems pretty legit to me. Unless he applied to extend as a visitor perhaps and then kept working anyways. I dunno. Then at the same time my immigration specialist sends this:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Below are the sections of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations that govern implied status:

* Extension of period authorized for stay

(5) Subject to subsection (5.1), if a temporary resident has applied for an extension of the period authorized for their stay and a decision is not made on the application by the end of the period authorized for their stay, the period is extended until

(a) the day on which a decision is made, if the application is refused; or
(b) the end of the new period authorized for their stay, if the application is allowed.

* Marginal note:Non-application

(5.1) Subsection (5) does not apply in respect of a foreign national who is the subject of a declaration made under subsection 22.1(1) of the Act.

* Marginal note:Continuation of status and conditions

(6) If the period authorized for the stay of a temporary resident is extended by operation of paragraph (5)(a) or extended under paragraph (5)(b), the temporary resident retains their status, subject to any other conditions imposed, during the extended period.

AND

No permit required

186. A foreign national may work in Canada without a work permit

(u) until a decision is made on an application made by them under subsection 201(1), if they have remained in Canada after the expiry of their work permit and they have continued to comply with the conditions set out on the expired work permit, other than the expiry date;


Per the Roadmap sent to you, you may make an application to extend your IEC WHP and continue working until the application is refused (implied status). This will not negatively affect your eligibility to apply for PR. You must declare the refusal on future applications.

There is a lot of misinformation circulating on internet forums and social media. It is important to only gather information from reliable sources.


Please let me know if you have additional questions.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

from a company on the list of approved Canadian immigration consultants found here: s e c u r e .i ccrc-cr cic.c a/search -new/ EN sourced directly from the CIC website here: ww w.cic .gc.c a /eng lish/informat ion/re presentat ive/verify- rep.asp

again you're gonna have to fix the links

so in summary, who the f knows? Not me. And lets remember anecdotal evidence isn't really evidence at all.

 

[volkov]

bumping a 5 month old thread, but wondering if any true closure came of this and whether CIC made any statements clearing up the confusion?

it seems that PR applicants would fall in the "change conditions" or "change class" and "if you are applying for another work permit, you ... meet the conditions of your original work permit" when speaking of implied status, regardless of the fact that the original work permit category or class may be non-renewable, when you apply for PR you are able to apply for a new OWP, and if you are still in legal status when that new application is submitted you should be covered by implied status IMHO

the CIC call centre officers that he spoke to a number of times backed up this opinion, and it was only forum talk that is still disputing that the CIC call centre officers were correct

 

[renoreaper]

Hi Volkov,

I haven't really received a definitive answer regarding this from CIC other than having their call centre agents confirming the implied status several times over.
To date I am in the process of my inland spousal sponsorship application and should be hearing back in the next few months, however in the meanwhile I did receive
an open work permit as part of a pilot program.

It's very hard to definitely say whether or not someone would benefit from implied status or not as CIC seems to refuse specific information (especially on a case basis) about this.
There are some very strongly opinionated people about this topic on this forum so I do not wish to get back into the whole yes/no argument but what I can tell you is that I feel like I made
the right decision in my specific case (for several reasons, including not wanting to start over my jobhunt which took me over 6 months to find a job I really like).

To date I have not received any correspondence from CIC indicating that I had worked without a permit or that anything is wrong with my application.

Not sure if this helps but I hope it does!

 

[volkov]

Hi Volkov,

I haven't really received a definitive answer regarding this from CIC other than having their call centre agents confirming the implied status several times over.
To date I am in the process of my inland spousal sponsorship application and should be hearing back in the next few months, however in the meanwhile I did receive
an open work permit as part of a pilot program.

It's very hard to definitely say whether or not someone would benefit from implied status or not as CIC seems to refuse specific information (especially on a case basis) about this.
There are some very strongly opinionated people about this topic on this forum so I do not wish to get back into the whole yes/no argument but what I can tell you is that I feel like I made
the right decision in my specific case (for several reasons, including not wanting to start over my jobhunt which took me over 6 months to find a job I really like).

To date I have not received any correspondence from CIC indicating that I had worked without a permit or that anything is wrong with my application.

Not sure if this helps but I hope it does!

thanks so much for posting, I guess I will call CIC call center so at least we can say that we were following their advice if they do get mad later, but as you said, quitting a good job now seems so pointless and should be unnecessary