"I respect myself too much to stay in Canada": Why so many new immigrants are leaving

[lr108]

They dont allow Canadians to be back https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-doctors-trained-abroad-practice-1.6749553

Think how tough it will be for someone who is practicing in an Asian country to do something here. The licensing process is tough to crack - https://theconversation.com/why-is-canada-snubbing-internationally-trained-doctors-during-a-health-care-crisis-198490

I think it makes sense to get the doctors from elsewhere acquainted to Canadian standards but there has to be a path for them to be integrated seamlessly into Canadian Healthcare. If they are actually trying to solve health care crisis. Seems like they have to go through a lotta hoops on their own.

It'll be nice to see actual numbers. How many came in and how many were successful and how long it took. Is there a way to find out this information on immigration statistics?

 

[lr108]

It's a complex issue, to state the obvious . Based on the work that I have done in my career here, some of my findings are the following:

1. Canada needs new immigrants (aka new tax payers) who will fund the CPP over the next few decades.
2. Canada is being used as a stepping stone for entry into the US, especially by a younger age group in the IT sector.
3. Immigration and post secondary education are BIG billion $$$ industries in Canada. The non-University intake via small time colleges is creating an army of minimum wage workers largely from one country.
4. There is no let up in immigration levels - quotas will keep increasing. It almost seems that the Fed & the Provinces have zero coordination on this front.
5. Infrastructure is not only not keeping pace, rather it is lagging significantly.

Some of these are pretty obvious and visible around you. The larger issue is the socio-economic problems that go unseen. Mental health amongst International students, especially in the colleges, is headed south. Suicides are on the rise. It's unlikely that the federal govt is not aware of these; I feel they are turning a blind eye. The light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.

#2 I'm not sure I follow this. What do you mean by stepping stone? Isn't getting H1B a nightmare?
#3 Doesn't make sense. Is there any "leaders" who talk about this? or like you said they are just turning blind eye?

 

[Dalboy1980]

Some of the comments here make sense and yet some are totally laughable! The fact that someone has Masters, Doctorates, a huge amount of work experience counts for nothing for some individuals here. If you refuse to re-train or go back down the rungs of the ladder you're seen as not playing ball....and my question is why should someone do this?!
The fact that you don't want to re-train or go back down the ladder and you're classed as NOT trying is an absolute joke!

So I was British born, British educated, degrees and vast amount of work experience....are you telling me that when I landed in Canada I would have to go back down the ladder to make it? That's an absolute joke.....I didn't come from a developing country and so I'm sorry if I feel that I deserve more or at least the same as my fellow Canadian who was born within the shores of Canada.

Also why should I spend 8 years struggling? Haven't I already struggled in the UK as a student and then as a worker? Don't make me laugh....have some empathy and don't call those who have tried hard...shirkers or people not prepared to make it MATE!

 

[yyzstudent]

Some of the comments here make sense and yet some are totally laughable! The fact that someone has Masters, Doctorates, a huge amount of work experience counts for nothing for some individuals here. If you refuse to re-train or go back down the rungs of the ladder you're seen as not playing ball....and my question is why should someone do this?!
The fact that you don't want to re-train or go back down the ladder and you're classed as NOT trying is an absolute joke!

So I was British born, British educated, degrees and vast amount of work experience....are you telling me that when I landed in Canada I would have to go back down the ladder to make it? That's an absolute joke.....I didn't come from a developing country and so I'm sorry if I feel that I deserve more or at least the same as my fellow Canadian who was born within the shores of Canada.

Also why should I spend 8 years struggling? Haven't I already struggled in the UK as a student and then as a worker? Don't make me laugh....have some empathy and don't call those who have tried hard...shirkers or people not prepared to make it MATE!

A: I’m not your “mate”.
B: I’m also not from a developing country.

You would have started at a lower place even if you moved to another European country. Oh wait, that’s right. Brexit. My bad. You can’t anymore.

My promotions would have happened a lot sooner had I become a PR a lot sooner as my industry and local union dictates the hiring process in my industry.

The medical field is different. Even in my European birth country a cardiology surgeon from another country or trained in another country can not work in their specialty without first passing medical board certification followed by specialty training. So many specialists settle as GP/family doctors, abandoning their specialty.

Same for nurses.

It’s been widely documented and reported in the news all through the pandemic, and before, and after. It’s also widely reported that the provinces are working on making it easier for foreign trained medical professionals to be certified in Canada. The provinces have different systems for it.

Same for foreign trained veterinarians. An Eastern European country (EU member) has a veterinarian college which accept anyone who can afford it, and it became very popular with those who didn’t have good enough grades to get into their local domestic schools. They had a wake up call when they came back and didn’t pass certification in their own country.

So no, a masters/phd from one country isn’t the same in another. See it often here when someone is applying to come here and find out a masters in one country is the equivalent of a bachelors here, and a bachelors there is the same as a diploma here.

 

[amarchcan]

Doctors and Dentists working on retail? Anyone who knows if this is true? There is shortage of people in healthcare and it doesn't make sense to bring them in to work on retail! That doesn't make sense! I hope it's a rare corner case!

I think this specific example is not a good one to make the case of immigrants leaving Canada. Or atleast the details here aren't clear enough.

There are some folks I know who left Canada because they have health issues and the wait times for some scans/ treatments are many months out on an ongoing basis which might be a better example.

I personally know one qualified dentist and an award-winning doctor one working as an immigration consultant (bringing more such people in) and the other working as a server in a restaurant. Most of the immigrants I know are working in jobs totally unrelated to their careers / professions in their home country.

 

[yyzstudent]

I personally know one qualified dentist and an award-winning doctor one working as an immigration consultant (bringing more such people in) and the other working as a server in a restaurant. Most of the immigrants I know are working in jobs totally unrelated to their careers / professions in their home country.

Exactly. I’ve met medical professionals in retail, political science researchers as cab drivers, journalists as construction workers. All foreign trained.

 

[lr108]

I personally know one qualified dentist and an award-winning doctor one working as an immigration consultant (bringing more such people in) and the other working as a server in a restaurant. Most of the immigrants I know are working in jobs totally unrelated to their careers / professions in their home country.

Like a stop gap for a year or two before until they get licenses etc. or they settled with these jobs now? Given you know folks in this filed, are these cases rare like 1/ 1000 or more like 1/100?

Doctors spend quite a bit of time to get to where they are compared to most other fields. Perhaps 12-15 years. Pretty much their life from late teens till early 30s. It's unfathomable they'd be giving up that for work in retail, uber etc. Hope that's not the case!!

 

[amarchcan]

Like a stop gap for a year or two before until they get licenses etc. or they settled with these jobs now? Given you know folks in this filed, are these cases rare like 1/ 1000 or more like 1/100?

Doctors spend quite a bit of time to get to where they are compared to most other fields. Perhaps 12-15 years. Pretty much their life from late teens till early 30s. It's unfathomable they'd be giving up that for work in retail, uber etc. Hope that's not the case!!

The dentist has been here for 6 years now and had given up the re-qualification route after an year of landing. I also know an Architect with 25 years of high-end projects experience behind him who started working at "The Brick" about 7-8 years back as it would have taken him anywhere from 3-5 years to get a license in BC - Now he's a semi-successful realtor. It's much more common than 1/100 in my experience.

 

[Dr. Walden]

I love the discussion in this thread. Go on Reddit on any day of the week. There will always be posts trending about "Canada is losing professionals due to inability to provide appropriate housing—problems and issues with immigration. Supply and Demand"

The problem with housing and immigration is obvious. However, when we talk about "why so many immigrants are leaving," we must factor in many-many other variables: language, social skills, slight and not-so-slight racism, connections, ability to adapt, in-demand professions and occupations, savings, understanding "Canadian" way of living, expectations, living standards and many-many more...

I can share my own unique yet anecdotal experience. However, it doesn't matter when it comes to your personal, tailored, individual experience. No matter how challenging or easy it is "to make it" here in Canada. Canada does provide valuable opportunities. Has a democratic process of things. A stable economy and relative safety and security are things that every human being longs to have in their lives.

Your personal experience with moving to Canada and settling here is probably, irrelevant. However, there are issues that most of you/us face. These issues could be common. Every one of us is responsible for ourselves. We can think, analyze, plan, be accountable for our actions, accept the consequences, and take risks, make our choices, education, professional paths and careers.

I think the best line in this article was from that Nepali guy who's like after moving to the us and selling his Ottawa townhome he made more money on the townhome sale than what he earned during his entire stay in Canada - that's seriously messed up for our economy.

Excerpt from the article:

When he recently sold the three-bedroom condo they bought in Ottawa in 2018, the value of the property actually doubled.
“I actually made more money selling my house than all I’d earned in my time in Canada,” says Sagar, who is now a citizen.

 

[lr108]

The problem with housing and immigration is obvious. However, when we talk about "why so many immigrants are leaving," we must factor in many-many other variables: language, social skills, slight and not-so-slight racism, connections, ability to adapt, in-demand professions and occupations, savings, understanding "Canadian" way of living, expectations, living standards and many-many more...

Yeah exactly. After reading this article, I had a bunch of questions on this specific case itself before I can take anything away from this story.

If the situation needs to get better, it should be like an ongoing weekly thing. Perhaps going over each industry with more numbers and data to shed light on the bigger picture.

 

[Dr. Walden]

This article is nothing new and is just a reflection of the sentiment that many immigrants feel. Come to Flemington park or Thorncliffe park, and you'll see hopelessness everywhere. Obviously, if you're in the beach's bubble or the annex, you may think everything is fine and dandy. And some immigrants, however, are completely okay with working blue-collar, warehouse, or driving jobs. It's all relative. But working paycheck to paycheck is not anyone's dream, immigrant or not.

Most immigrants I speak to, who are in IT, have their only goal to move to and work in the US. For someone escaping war, Canada is paradise. For someone looking for a return on their education or career, Canada is a joke.

 

[lr108]

This article is nothing new and is just a reflection of the sentiment that many immigrants feel. Come to Flemington park or Thorncliffe park, and you'll see hopelessness everywhere. Obviously, if you're in the beach's bubble or the annex, you may think everything is fine and dandy. And some immigrants, however, are completely okay with working blue-collar, warehouse, or driving jobs. It's all relative. But working paycheck to paycheck is not anyone's dream, immigrant or not.

Most immigrants I speak to, who are in IT, have their only goal to move to and work in the US. For someone escaping war, Canada is paradise. For someone looking for a return on their education or career, Canada is a joke.

I don't understand this part. Using Canada as "stepping stone" to get into US. I'm not sure what that means.
Isn't H1B a bigger headache and folks from some countries can't even get Green card for over a decade, let alone citizenship.

 

[ishangodbole]

I don't understand this part. Using Canada as "stepping stone" to get into US. I'm not sure what that means.
Isn't H1B a bigger headache and folks from some countries can't even get Green card for over a decade, let alone citizenship.

TN-1 visa.

 

[Dalboy1980]

A: I’m not your “mate”.
B: I’m also not from a developing country.

You would have started at a lower place even if you moved to another European country. Oh wait, that’s right. Brexit. My bad. You can’t anymore.

My promotions would have happened a lot sooner had I become a PR a lot sooner as my industry and local union dictates the hiring process in my industry.

The medical field is different. Even in my European birth country a cardiology surgeon from another country or trained in another country can not work in their specialty without first passing medical board certification followed by specialty training. So many specialists settle as GP/family doctors, abandoning their specialty.

Same for nurses.

It’s been widely documented and reported in the news all through the pandemic, and before, and after. It’s also widely reported that the provinces are working on making it easier for foreign trained medical professionals to be certified in Canada. The provinces have different systems for it.

Same for foreign trained veterinarians. An Eastern European country (EU member) has a veterinarian college which accept anyone who can afford it, and it became very popular with those who didn’t have good enough grades to get into their local domestic schools. They had a wake up call when they came back and didn’t pass certification in their own country.

So no, a masters/phd from one country isn’t the same in another. See it often here when someone is applying to come here and find out a masters in one country is the equivalent of a bachelors here, and a bachelors there is the same as a diploma here.

A: You're not my MATE? No clearly you're not
B: Did I say you were from a developing country or am I living rent free in your head?

As for starting at a lower place, you don't know anything about me so stop second guessing where I would've started and as for Brexit what's that got to do with my argument? Have I once mentioned it at all? NO so have a day off

If you want to move to another country and struggle for 8 years then that's your call, a stupid one but your call and yeah sit and admire your six figure salary you prat

 

[CoorsHeavy]

For all the cry babies !! In Google chrome on a PC - turn off JavaScript - now read all the online newspapers for free