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I got refusal letter due to my criminal record. (INLAND) - HELP!

lsj2767

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Jul 13, 2013
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bartjones said:
LOL, true enough. I wonder what the refusal letter said about his situation. I know when my wife was in a similar situation and was refused a TRP, CIC's refusal letter didn't ask her to leave but did say that the refusal letter was being copied to CBSA for "possible removal order proceedings".
What did your wife do?
Did she leave Canada??

I called cic and they told me my work permit application is still pending
and the refusal letter for work permit application will include instruction or ways for next step.
So I will not be out of status at this point.
 

lsj2767

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Jul 13, 2013
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AOR Received.
No AOR
Tilikun said:
Use all the avenues that you can , send the rehab app ASAP , start putting together the new sponsorship application , and also I heard that you can file an appeal to the IAD ( immigration appeal division ) but I'm not sure about that one , so you should get opinions from real lawyers , not cheap consultants . Again , good luck my friend , don't let them put you apart from your loved one .
Thank you so much.

According to cic webiste, I can't apply for PR before approval of rehabilitation, though.
 

bartjones

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lsj2767 said:
I have not received rehabilitation forms.
They will not send them to you. You have to download and complete them yourself. You can download the forms here http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/rehabil.asp

You are going to need these documents.

1. Original Korean Criminal History Information Record (including lapsed records) translated and notarized. You will need two originals of this; one for your criminal rehabilitation application and one for your new PR application.
2. One original copy of the "Summary Order" translated and notarized. You will submit this with your criminal rehabilitation application
3. One original copy of the "Criminal Fact" translated and notarized. You will submit this with your criminal rehabilitation application.
4. One original "Certificate of Payment of Penalty" translated and notarized showing what the fine was and when it was paid.
5. One Canadian Criminal Background Search. Since it appears you have lived in Canada for more than 6 months, you will need to submit this with your criminal rehabilitation application
6. A copy of the Korean statute that you were convicted under, in English. The statute and section number should be shown on both the Korean Criminal History Information Record and the "Summary Order". You can find the English version of the Korean statute here http://elaw.klri.re.kr/eng_service/main.do. You will need to create an account at that site if you want to save or print the statute. Don't worry, it's free.

You probably have older copies of most of that documentation already. You're going to need fresh ones that are current to within 90 days of submitting your new application.

Can you tell me if the "Criminal Fact" described the type of material you were in possession of? (If you want to do that by private message, that's fine). This would seem to be the important factor in your situation. You need to provide CIC with something that proves that the material was just straight forward, typical adult videos. If there is not enough information in the "Criminal Fact" to clearly show that, you might consider contacting the prosecutor's office in Korea and asking them to write a letter explaining that it was simply adult videos, not something involving children or anything that would be illegal here.

Get that all together, complete all the forms and submit it with your new PR application. I don't know where you read that you have to get criminal rehabilitation before applying for PR. This is not my understanding. You should have no problem submitting them together.

You guys would understand better about my record if I say there's no legal way to even watch adult videos in my country.
Now compare to Canada.
Sometimes you guys smell somebody's smoking pot in Canada.
But it's jail time in my country
I understand this very well. I lived in South Korea for 12 years. You are correct. The type of explicit material that has been legal in Canada for years is still illegal in Korea. It's a very conservative society in that respect.

The letter says "Indictable offence" for adult videos, not child one.
I can't understand why it's indictable offence..
They are saying it's indictable because in Canada possession of 'obscene' material is a "hybrid" offence (see s. 163 and 169 Criminal Code of Canada). That means a prosecutor in Canada can decide to treat it as a summary conviction matter or an indictable matter, depending on the circumstances. When the equivalent Canadian offence for your foreign conviction is a "hybrid offence" under Canadian law, CIC treats it as indictable.

In your case, it really doesn't matter whether it's summary conviction or indictable. The important thing is that in Canada the offence is punishable by a prison term of less than 10 years, which means you can apply for criminal rehabilitation after 5 years.

What did your wife do?
Did she leave Canada??
We were lucky. She had a US visitor's visa and family in Michigan not far from where we live in Canada. Rather than worry about the CBSA guys knocking on our door someday, I took her to Michigan. A few weeks later we submitted her criminal rehabilitation application at the border. They approved it three days later and she came back to Canada.

There are a couple other things you should consider. First, as I said before, your case involves a question of criminal equivalency. That is a difficult and confusing aspect of Canadian immigration law. You would be well advised to at least consult an experienced Canadian immigration lawyer before taking any further steps. Secondly, assuming you can resolve the issue of your status in Canada, you might consider submitting your new PR application as an outland application this time. If you do it as an outland application and you get refused again, you will have a right to appeal. Since your case is a complicated one both factually and legally, having that appeal right could be very, very important.

Good luck. If you need any further help just let me know.
 

Soso29

Member
Sep 6, 2013
15
0
hello , my husband got the refusal letter also... because he was only talking to a prostitute in florida.
that happen 12 years ago.. they just said they will refound the pr fees... that is so weird they dont tell us if we can apply for rehabilITAtion... my lawyer send them a letter to tell them that they are putting my husband case in the wrong criminal case because this is a misdearminor not a felony
 

lsj2767

Star Member
Jul 13, 2013
144
1
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
26-10-2014
AOR Received.
No AOR
bartjones said:
They will not send them to you. You have to download and complete them yourself. You can download the forms here http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/rehabil.asp

You are going to need these documents.

1. Original Korean Criminal History Information Record (including lapsed records) translated and notarized. You will need two originals of this; one for your criminal rehabilitation application and one for your new PR application.
2. One original copy of the "Summary Order" translated and notarized. You will submit this with your criminal rehabilitation application
3. One original copy of the "Criminal Fact" translated and notarized. You will submit this with your criminal rehabilitation application.
4. One original "Certificate of Payment of Penalty" translated and notarized showing what the fine was and when it was paid.
5. One Canadian Criminal Background Search. Since it appears you have lived in Canada for more than 6 months, you will need to submit this with your criminal rehabilitation application
6. A copy of the Korean statute that you were convicted under, in English. The statute and section number should be shown on both the Korean Criminal History Information Record and the "Summary Order". You can find the English version of the Korean statute here http://elaw.klri.re.kr/eng_service/main.do. You will need to create an account at that site if you want to save or print the statute. Don't worry, it's free.

You probably have older copies of most of that documentation already. You're going to need fresh ones that are current to within 90 days of submitting your new application.

Can you tell me if the "Criminal Fact" described the type of material you were in possession of? (If you want to do that by private message, that's fine). This would seem to be the important factor in your situation. You need to provide CIC with something that proves that the material was just straight forward, typical adult videos. If there is not enough information in the "Criminal Fact" to clearly show that, you might consider contacting the prosecutor's office in Korea and asking them to write a letter explaining that it was simply adult videos, not something involving children or anything that would be illegal here.

Get that all together, complete all the forms and submit it with your new PR application. I don't know where you read that you have to get criminal rehabilitation before applying for PR. This is not my understanding. You should have no problem submitting them together.

I understand this very well. I lived in South Korea for 12 years. You are correct. The type of explicit material that has been legal in Canada for years is still illegal in Korea. It's a very conservative society in that respect.

They are saying it's indictable because in Canada possession of 'obscene' material is a "hybrid" offence (see s. 163 and 169 Criminal Code of Canada). That means a prosecutor in Canada can decide to treat it as a summary conviction matter or an indictable matter, depending on the circumstances. When the equivalent Canadian offence for your foreign conviction is a "hybrid offence" under Canadian law, CIC treats it as indictable.

In your case, it really doesn't matter whether it's summary conviction or indictable. The important thing is that in Canada the offence is punishable by a prison term of less than 10 years, which means you can apply for criminal rehabilitation after 5 years.

We were lucky. She had a US visitor's visa and family in Michigan not far from where we live in Canada. Rather than worry about the CBSA guys knocking on our door someday, I took her to Michigan. A few weeks later we submitted her criminal rehabilitation application at the border. They approved it three days later and she came back to Canada.

There are a couple other things you should consider. First, as I said before, your case involves a question of criminal equivalency. That is a difficult and confusing aspect of Canadian immigration law. You would be well advised to at least consult an experienced Canadian immigration lawyer before taking any further steps. Secondly, assuming you can resolve the issue of your status in Canada, you might consider submitting your new PR application as an outland application this time. If you do it as an outland application and you get refused again, you will have a right to appeal. Since your case is a complicated one both factually and legally, having that appeal right could be very, very important.

Good luck. If you need any further help just let me know.
Thank you so much.

I exactly did what you wrote.
I sent the application to Manila office which the cic officer recommended 2 days ago.

Criminal fact says "Sexual intercourse" and if it's child one, that will be applied to different law clearly in Korea.
I think the interviewer was a woman from conservative asian country like me. so I think she thought even typical videos were obscene and applied to "hybrid" offence.

At this point, I want to focus on how to solve the problem.
Here's my situation.
My work permit has been pending from Oct, 2013.
So if it is pending until the approval of rehabilitation, I will be ok.
But odds are pretty slim, I think.

I have questions for temporary resident permit and rehabilitation at the border.
1. What was the reason of refusal of TRP?
2. And how could you apply for rehabilitation at the border? You guys submitted to CBSA officer?
3. I will move to Niagara falls area which is right near US border.
Can I apply without staying US?
4. where did you find information about applying for rehabilitation at the border?
5. Your wife didn't have problem of overstaying after denying of TRP?

I'm sorry for a lot of questions.
You don't have to answer each question.
I just want to know my options.
 

bartjones

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lsj2767 said:
I exactly did what you wrote.
I sent the application to Manila office which the cic officer recommended 2 days ago.
I'm confused. Are you saying that you submitted a criminal rehabilitation application to Manila two days ago?

1. What was the reason of refusal of TRP?
They just said that they found no compelling reason to grant the TRP, which is the test for granting a TRP under the Immigration Act. There were no other reasons given.

4. where did you find information about applying for rehabilitation at the border?
We also submitted our original application for criminal rehabilitation to Manila back in late Dec. 2013. I did that because CIC's website says you must submit it to the visa office responsible for your country of origin. That information is only partially correct. I learned later that you can also submit them in Canada or at a port of entry.

In late January 2014 my wife was refused a TRP and in mid-February 2014, I dropped her off at her family's place in Michigan. On the way back to Canada I stopped in at the CBSA office at the Detroit/Windsor tunnel to ask a few questions about the possibility of obtaining a TRP there. The CBSA agent I spoke to that night told me that it would probably be a year before anyone in Manila even looked at my wife's criminal rehabilitation application. He suggested submitting another criminal rehabilitation application at the border crossing because they processed them there in about 4 weeks.

3. I will move to Niagara falls area which is right near US border.
Can I apply without staying US?
No. You must leave Canada and then personally submit your criminal rehabilitation application to the CBSA agents at the border. You must remain in the US while the application is being processed. You may want to contact the CBSA office at Niagara Falls to see how long they take to process a criminal rehabilitation application. Different ports of entry have different processing times, but they are usually much faster than Manila.

2. And how could you apply for rehabilitation at the border? You guys submitted to CBSA officer?
Yes. I picked my wife up in Michigan. We drove to the Canadian border. I told the CBSA agent in the kiosk that my wife was not attempting to enter Canada but just wanted to visit the CBSA office to submit an application for criminal rehabilitation. He allowed us to proceed to the CBSA office there, we submitted the application, paid the fee and then turned around and returned to the US. They have a big back door gate at the CBSA office parking lot which puts you onto a road that only goes back to the US.

5. Your wife didn't have problem of overstaying after denying of TRP?
No, because once you submit the application for a TRP you have implied status to remain in Canada while the TRP application is in process. The TRP refusal letter did not ask her to leave Canada and she voluntarily left within 3 weeks of receiving the refusal letter. Once criminal rehabilitation was granted she just re-entered Canada and showed them the letter from CBSA granting rehabilitation.

My wife's case involved a simple DUI conviction and was pretty straightforward. Again, I'm going to point out that your case is complicated both legally and factually. You really should consult a lawyer before taking any further steps. Doing an application for criminal rehabilitation from the US may not be an option for you. In particular, I'm not sure you would be able to enter the US with that particular Korean criminal conviction. The conviction that makes you inadmissible here may also make you inadmissible there as well. That wasn't the case in my wife's situation because a single DUI conviction does not render you inadmissible to the US. In addition, my wife already had a US visitor's visa which made entering the US much easier. I'm not sure you would be able to do so quite as easily.

I'm telling you what our experience was with the process, but your situation is a little different and really requires the attention of a good immigration lawyer. Again, I would strongly suggest you consult a lawyer rather than trying to navigate your way through this mess on your own.

Good luck. If you need anything further, I'll keep an eye on this thread.
 

lsj2767

Star Member
Jul 13, 2013
144
1
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
26-10-2014
AOR Received.
No AOR
bartjones said:
I'm confused. Are you saying that you submitted a criminal rehabilitation application to Manila two days ago?

They just said that they found no compelling reason to grant the TRP, which is the test for granting a TRP under the Immigration Act. There were no other reasons given.

We also submitted our original application for criminal rehabilitation to Manila back in late Dec. 2013. I did that because CIC's website says you must submit it to the visa office responsible for your country of origin. That information is only partially correct. I learned later that you can also submit them in Canada or at a port of entry.

In late January 2014 my wife was refused a TRP and in mid-February 2014, I dropped her off at her family's place in Michigan. On the way back to Canada I stopped in at the CBSA office at the Detroit/Windsor tunnel to ask a few questions about the possibility of obtaining a TRP there. The CBSA agent I spoke to that night told me that it would probably be a year before anyone in Manila even looked at my wife's criminal rehabilitation application. He suggested submitting another criminal rehabilitation application at the border crossing because they processed them there in about 4 weeks.

No. You must leave Canada and then personally submit your criminal rehabilitation application to the CBSA agents at the border. You must remain in the US while the application is being processed. You may want to contact the CBSA office at Niagara Falls to see how long they take to process a criminal rehabilitation application. Different ports of entry have different processing times, but they are usually much faster than Manila.

Yes. I picked my wife up in Michigan. We drove to the Canadian border. I told the CBSA agent in the kiosk that my wife was not attempting to enter Canada but just wanted to visit the CBSA office to submit an application for criminal rehabilitation. He allowed us to proceed to the CBSA office there, we submitted the application, paid the fee and then turned around and returned to the US. They have a big back door gate at the CBSA office parking lot which puts you onto a road that only goes back to the US.

No, because once you submit the application for a TRP you have implied status to remain in Canada while the TRP application is in process. The TRP refusal letter did not ask her to leave Canada and she voluntarily left within 3 weeks of receiving the refusal letter. Once criminal rehabilitation was granted she just re-entered Canada and showed them the letter from CBSA granting rehabilitation.

My wife's case involved a simple DUI conviction and was pretty straightforward. Again, I'm going to point out that your case is complicated both legally and factually. You really should consult a lawyer before taking any further steps. Doing an application for criminal rehabilitation from the US may not be an option for you. In particular, I'm not sure you would be able to enter the US with that particular Korean criminal conviction. The conviction that makes you inadmissible here may also make you inadmissible there as well. That wasn't the case in my wife's situation because a single DUI conviction does not render you inadmissible to the US. In addition, my wife already had a US visitor's visa which made entering the US much easier. I'm not sure you would be able to do so quite as easily.

I'm telling you what our experience was with the process, but your situation is a little different and really requires the attention of a good immigration lawyer. Again, I would strongly suggest you consult a lawyer rather than trying to navigate your way through this mess on your own.

Good luck. If you need anything further, I'll keep an eye on this thread.
Thank you so much for your reply.

I applied for rehabilitation to Manila
because I thought this was what cic wanted.

I always have complained about the slow processing for my PR.
At this point, I just want even TRP..
I will be waiting for open work permit refusal letter which will make me out of status.
Hopefully it will be pending for months as I waited.
I will contact immigration lawyers, too.
 

taffy7

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Soso29 said:
hello , my husband got the refusal letter also... because he was only talking to a prostitute in florida.
that happen 12 years ago.. they just said they will refound the pr fees... that is so weird they dont tell us if we can apply for rehabilITAtion... my lawyer send them a letter to tell them that they are putting my husband case in the wrong criminal case because this is a misdearminor not a felony

This is a question i don't understand myself why is it after 10 years they say you are rehabilitated yet you got a refusal letter . Lets hope someone can answer this for us.
 

bartjones

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taffy7 said:
This is a question i don't understand myself why is it after 10 years they say you are rehabilitated yet you got a refusal letter . Lets hope someone can answer this for us.
It is virtually impossible to determine whether the deemed rehabilitation rules would apply unless you know the precise statute he was convicted under and exactly when the sentence was completed. Without those specifics it's anyone's guess.
 

taffy7

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Med's Request
28 July 2015
Med's Done....
30th Dec 2013
Passport Req..
in process 18th July 2015/ DM 5/12/2015
LANDED..........
28/12/2015
bartjones said:
It is virtually impossible to determine whether the deemed rehabilitation rules would apply unless you know the precise statute he was convicted under and exactly when the sentence was completed. Without those specifics it's anyone's guess.

I am so stressed out , i think i should just down load the forms and apply for rehabilitation .It was 20 years ago and my husband had a very small amount of pot on him. He was remanded for 19 days and then payed a fine and got sent home to the U.k. He was not deported. He was their on a days visit and got pulled over by border security. We sent an explanation letter when we did the Background /Declaration form. I haven't even passed the sponsorship time line yet and i'm in panic mode.
 

SenoritaBella

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Soso29's situation is a bit complicated. Eventhough the situation happened 12 years ago, her husband did not do the community service that was required, therefore he has not completed his sentence yet. For that reason, he is still criminally inadmissible to Canada.

Her husband has to complete the community service first, and wait five years after, before he can apply for rehabilitation and be sponsored.

It does not matter to CIC how long ago it happened. If you have not completely served the sentenced(or paid the fine), you are still considered "criminally inadmissible" to Canada.

taffy7 said:
This is a question i don't understand myself why is it after 10 years they say you are rehabilitated yet you got a refusal letter . Lets hope someone can answer this for us.
 

lsj2767

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Jul 13, 2013
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taffy7 said:
I am so stressed out , i think i should just down load the forms and apply for rehabilitation .It was 20 years ago and my husband had a very small amount of pot on him. He was remanded for 19 days and then payed a fine and got sent home to the U.k. He was not deported. He was their on a days visit and got pulled over by border security. We sent an explanation letter when we did the Background /Declaration form. I haven't even passed the sponsorship time line yet and i'm in panic mode.
It's not late.
Just apply for rehabilitation.
Processing time is only 6 month for UK.

My wife laugh at the word "indictable" every time we talk
because people sell various kinds of adult videos in Canada LEGALLY.
But cic has a power to apply multiple laws and make it inadmissible.
And they don't like something illegal.
 

taffy7

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AOR Received.
sponsorship approval 05 Aug 2014
File Transfer...
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Med's Request
28 July 2015
Med's Done....
30th Dec 2013
Passport Req..
in process 18th July 2015/ DM 5/12/2015
LANDED..........
28/12/2015
lsj2767 said:
It's not late.
Just apply for rehabilitation.
Processing time is only 6 month for UK.

My wife laugh at the word "indictable" every time we talk
because people sell various kinds of adult videos in Canada LEGALLY.
But cic has a power to apply multiple laws and make it inadmissible.
And they don't like something illegal.
We did his criminal check and it came back with no live trace , but they called him and asked him about the conviction , but they wont give us any details and my husband don't have the documents since is was 20 years ago.
 

bartjones

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taffy7 said:
We did his criminal check and it came back with no live trace , but they called him and asked him about the conviction , but they wont give us any details and my husband don't have the documents since is was 20 years ago.
Who is "they"? I'm assuming you don't mean CIC, since you filed your application less than a month ago.
 

taffy7

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09 June 2014 same doc's requested again 6th Oct 2014. docs not needed again mistake by cic
AOR Received.
sponsorship approval 05 Aug 2014
File Transfer...
05 Aug 2014
Med's Request
28 July 2015
Med's Done....
30th Dec 2013
Passport Req..
in process 18th July 2015/ DM 5/12/2015
LANDED..........
28/12/2015
bartjones said:
Who is "they"? I'm assuming you don't mean CIC, since you filed your application less than a month ago.

ACRO association of chief police officers , criminal records office in the U.K.