How long until seen by Citizenship Judge?

[Rakiura74]

My husband and I had our citizenship test last Wednesday and we both passed.

Unfortunately, during the interview process where they checked our forms and id's, we were told that we need to see a CiC official for an interview and that our file has to be seen by a citizenship Judge.
We have less than required days due to a work related absence.

Does anyone know how long it might take to be seen by the judge?

What I don't understand:

Why do they tell us now that we need to be seen by a judge, after that we had the test? After our application was started, we received an RQ back in spring 2015, which we promptly filled out.
After we received our test date, I thought that our RQ file got accepted and we passed to the next level. Maybe not? But why do they let the applicants write the test first, and then decide later if the application can be moved on? They could have told us in spring if ther eis no chance, and we could have applied under the new rule this summer.
I just don't want to wait another year to hear that they reject our application and then file a new application, when I could have done it this summer or withdraw the application.

We are PR since 2008 and my husband has a skilled worker permanent job. They know that under the new rule we would qualify, so would this not be taken into consideration?

I read that withdrawing applications also puts you into the non-routine category, si this is not somthing we would like to do if it causes problems after. Or especially if there is still hope we will get through with the old application.

Thanks for any constructive advice.

 

[scylla]

Having to see a judge can add anywhere from several months to more than a year to your overall processing time. So you may be waiting quite some time before you see a judge.

It's unfortunate you applied with insufficient days. You may end up waiting a long time only to be refused.

No - the fact you qualify under the new rule will not be taken into consideration. All that matters is how many days you had at the time you applied and whether you qualified to apply under those rules.

Since you didn't meet the residency requirements for citizenship at the time you applied, I would withdraw your application and apply again under the new rules rather than waiting for the hearing with the judge. A number of us advised you to withdraw back in April of this year: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/rq-what-to-expect-now-t279783.0.html;msg4218520#msg4218520

 

[neo_baron]

I've seen that take anywhere from a few months to 3+ years, so there's no way to tell for sure.

My partner miscalculated the number of days and ended with a number slightly lower than 1095 a few years ago. It's now been 45 months since she applied and she's still not a citizen. On a positive note, last month she had to go talk to an officer and her status changed to decision made, so we're eagerly waiting for a letter which we believe will be the oath letter.

Having said all that, any case under 1095 days may be refused, so you have two options - (1) wait as long as possible and hope to have the case approved, even though it might very much be denied, or (2) withdraw the application and start it all over again.

In our case, since it had been way too long and we knew that reapplying would almost certainly result in another RQ with a long processing time (a previously withdrawn application usually triggers a RQ), we decided to let it go, be patient and hope for the best. I recommend you do that too, but keep in mind it could still take some time and at the end there's always the chance you might have to reapply. Best of luck.

 

[janoo]

Judge appointment may take from 6 -36 months, better think for other options if you are
qualified with the new rules and you have complete documents evidence that is
working stab T4- travelling record etc... in and out complete record prepare and
send a new application and send the all documents along with the applications
so chances to avoid any residential questionnaire etc..

 

[Rakiura74]

Thanks everyone.

We will not withdraw at this point, as it is clear that withdrawing will put us in the RQ trouble zone as well for any new application.

I guess all we can do now is to wait and hope it won't take too long to be seen by a judge.
I am getting a bit frustrated at the situation that they make it so hard for people like us to become canadians, even though living here since almost 10 years and working and paying taxes, when there are many that are able to "buy" their fast track entry with property and wealth.

One of the questionnaire regarding Citizenship assessment talks about the "net worth" of a person, depending on income and properties and such. This grosses me out, as if someone with lots of money is worth more than someone else without.

They seriously asked my husband during the interview if we have property, and why not even a condo? Hello? We live in Vancouver... there is no such thing as a 4 bedroom condo that is anywhere near the affordability zone.. (we have 3 kids).
how can this be a criteria of proof of your ties to Canada?

 

[hkalltheway]

Thanks everyone.

We will not withdraw at this point, as it is clear that withdrawing will put us in the RQ trouble zone as well for any new application.

That is not always true; I submitted an application in 2012 with less than 1095 days, for which I received RQ and after three years, I withdrew the application. I subsequently re-applied in May 2015, had my test in November, and already have Decision Made and waiting for oath...

 

[scylla]

I guess all we can do now is to wait and hope it won't take too long to be seen by a judge.
I am getting a bit frustrated at the situation that they make it so hard for people like us to become canadians, even though living here since almost 10 years and working and paying taxes, when there are many that are able to "buy" their fast track entry with property and wealth.

I think continuing your current application is the wrong decision - but it's obviously your choice. Chances are you're going to be refused since you don't meet RO. So you'll have to apply again anyway. Makes more sense to me to withdraw and reapply now. And yes - there's some chance you might be approved as well once you appear in front of the judge - however I think the odds are against you.

If you want to be frustrated with anyone - you should be frustrated with yourselves. This situation is of your own making. You applied too early before you met the criteria for citizenship. It's one thing to blame the process if you followed the rules and applied after you qualified. You didn't follow the rules. No one to blame but yourselves. There are lots of people on this forum who have found it very hard to wait until they met RO to apply for citizenship. They've sacrificed jobs, trips, important family visits. But they waited all the same. You didn't. Time to take responsibility for your actions and the resulting consequences.

 

[janoo]

Am surprised to hear about wealth and property in citizenship cases, they are

looking for only two things that you are maintaining your permanent status and

you complete the number of days i.e. 1095 days in four years time as per old

rule, if you have completed honestly and you have evidence that you live in

Canada for required number of days the citizenship will be granted... money

property nothing involve in this situation..... how many days you are short

if you are short more than 65-100 days than defiantly you have to re apply.

Any how decision is yours you may be lucky... from my side I wish you all the best

of luck..

 

[canadahopeful]

I for one made the mistake of applying with two few a days thinking I will be able to convince the citizenship judge. I realized later that it would such a waste of effort and time due to very slim chances of being approved by the CJ and even in case of an approval the chance of being challenged by the Government in federal court. I withdrew the application and submitted a new application when I had full 1095 days. However, I had already put myself in the RQ vulnerable applicants queue having applied earlier and then withdrawing the application. I was served an RQ even when I had full days. The application is now approved after 2 years of processing, although I lost 7 months due to misplacement of the RQ correspondence sent out by the CIC. Still, 24 months was not so bad at all for an RQ applicant after all.

 

[Rakiura74]

If you want to be frustrated with anyone - you should be frustrated with yourselves. This situation is of your own making. You applied too early before you met the criteria for citizenship. It's one thing to blame the process if you followed the rules and applied after you qualified. You didn't follow the rules. No one to blame but yourselves. There are lots of people on this forum who have found it very hard to wait until they met RO to apply for citizenship. They've sacrificed jobs, trips, important family visits. But they waited all the same. You didn't. Time to take responsibility for your actions and the resulting consequences.

scylla, who are you to judge someone you don't know in such a self righteous way.. you don't know anything about our life, why we applied earlier and why we have been away for longer than a year nor do I feel the need to explain.
I asked a simple question and got back judgments and condescend from you. Luckily not everyone is like that.
If your goal is to make people feel bad about themselves in order for you to feel better, then you missed what really matters in life.

I find it very special that after asking a question, I receive contradictory replies. Who should I know to trust then? Some say withdraw will result in future RQ's other say no, some say there is no way you get approved with less days, others say there might be exceptions.

 

[susann]

I find it very special that after asking a question, I receive contradictory replies. Who should I know to trust then? Some say withdraw will result in future RQ's other say no, some say there is no way you get approved with less days, others say there might be exceptions.

What do you expect?

You asked a question and everyone who took the time to answered your question did this on his own experience or knowledge. You should be thankful to get these answers and not complaining that they are different. No case is the same.

The only person who will know what would be best for you in this moment is maybe the judge!

At the end YOU have to make your own decision. IF you do not know what to do - maybe go and see an immigration lawyer, but I think you will get two different answers when you ask two lawyers as well.

 

[Exports]

I agree with Susann... even though you get the most expensive and proven lawyer; you will get the same two replies- do this (withdraw) or do that (pursue the application and wait for CJ. The key is patience. I spent more than 1000 dollars only to be told something which I already know with no fixed answer that do 'only this' and no other way.
Its really appreciating that people like scylla and others are taking time out to post and give their experiences...so you got both the possible outcome and you are better judge of yourself to decide. Every case is different and possibilities of different outcomes can drawn from experience of different people...
Various factors such as "time is the essence", "new government policies", "your individual case and convincing capability", "outcomes positive or negative in the past in similar situations", " "receptiveness of the judge while hearing" etc...

All the best!!

 

[Canadiandesi2006]

Thanks everyone.

We will not withdraw at this point, as it is clear that withdrawing will put us in the RQ trouble zone as well for any new application.

I guess all we can do now is to wait and hope it won't take too long to be seen by a judge.
I am getting a bit frustrated at the situation that they make it so hard for people like us to become canadians, even though living here since almost 10 years and working and paying taxes, when there are many that are able to "buy" their fast track entry with property and wealth.

One of the questionnaire regarding Citizenship assessment talks about the "net worth" of a person, depending on income and properties and such. This grosses me out, as if someone with lots of money is worth more than someone else without.

They seriously asked my husband during the interview if we have property, and why not even a condo? Hello? We live in Vancouver... there is no such thing as a 4 bedroom condo that is anywhere near the affordability zone.. (we have 3 kids).
how can this be a criteria of proof of your ties to Canada?

I can understand your dilemma. I had been same situation due to my attorney's miscalculation of my physical days in Canada.

After nearly 4 years of wait, my case was assigned to Citizenship Judge as I was about 2 months short of number of days, though I had strong ties to country with family and kids became citizens few months back.

Citizenship judge took a minute to decide my case. Judge told I dont have time to review your papers just withdraw and re-apply. I pointed out about the provision of strong ties to country. He told even if he approve, the CIC officers would overturn the decision.

Bottom line, I wasted almost a year for Citizenship Judge hearing. You know your situation better. I wish you all the best. Cheers !!!

 

[Rakiura74]

What do you expect?

You asked a question and everyone who took the time to answered your question did this on his own experience or knowledge. You should be thankful to get these answers and not complaining that they are different. No case is the same.

The only person who will know what would be best for you in this moment is maybe the judge!

At the end YOU have to make your own decision. IF you do not know what to do - maybe go and see an immigration lawyer, but I think you will get two different answers when you ask two lawyers as well.

susanne, I would have wished there would be a clearer answer, and someone knew from own experience how long it takes to see a judge.

I am very much aware that ever situation is different, so that's why I was stumbled I guess to read that people said "no way, don't do this, do that". I guess I just wanted to hear what others experienced, and yes, I am grateful that people take the time to answer! I just didn't like the condescending tone I got from scylla, that's all. It's one thing to give your opinion, and very much appreciated and hope for, but it's another thing to belittle someone about something they have done.

 

[screech339]

My husband and I had our citizenship test last Wednesday and we both passed.

Unfortunately, during the interview process where they checked our forms and id's, we were told that we need to see a CiC official for an interview and that our file has to be seen by a citizenship Judge.
We have less than required days due to a work related absence.

Does anyone know how long it might take to be seen by the judge?

What I don't understand:

Why do they tell us now that we need to be seen by a judge, after that we had the test? After our application was started, we received an RQ back in spring 2015, which we promptly filled out.
After we received our test date, I thought that our RQ file got accepted and we passed to the next level. Maybe not? But why do they let the applicants write the test first, and then decide later if the application can be moved on? They could have told us in spring if ther eis no chance, and we could have applied under the new rule this summer.
I just don't want to wait another year to hear that they reject our application and then file a new application, when I could have done it this summer or withdraw the application.

We are PR since 2008 and my husband has a skilled worker permanent job. They know that under the new rule we would qualify, so would this not be taken into consideration?

I read that withdrawing applications also puts you into the non-routine category, si this is not somthing we would like to do if it causes problems after. Or especially if there is still hope we will get through with the old application.

Thanks for any constructive advice.

In almost every case, when someone is short on number of days to qualify, this is determined after the test is completed. During test, CIC agents examines your presence days. If they determined that it is short of 1095 days, it's automatically sent to citizenship judge for further review since it is now under "basis residency" qualification.

This is one of the reasons why a lot of applicants apply for citizenship with a huge buffer days after 1095 days, just in case, if there were any missed days or miscalculations, they can still meet the 1095 day requirement.

It seems in your case, you may have applied right at the 1095 mark with little or no buffer. You didn't leave much room of buffer to account for any miscalculations.

It appears that you are venting about the process of the application and thus due to waiting a long time for CJ. What did you expect? There is only a handful of CJ available for whole of Canada.

The thing you have to remember is that the odds are stacked against you. CJ have been instructed by government to strictly apply the physical presence test.

Good luck with your decision on which way you want to go. Stay with CJ or withdraw and reapply.