2. My wife stayed with me in india for 3 years with me and my son they both are Canadian citizen is that time counts as physical presence in canada
Hi I applied for pr renewal application it received the case processing center on 27 th aprail haven't heard anything yet can any body tell how long
- Thread starter Sharmabipul37
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First - if should be your turn to get your AOR soon. It appears they are opening application for that period now.
Second - it depends who accompanied who (in their perspective of course), @dpenabill had a very detailed explanation on this matter, check the other threads and look into it.
Second - it depends who accompanied who (in their perspective of course), @dpenabill had a very detailed explanation on this matter, check the other threads and look into it.
Hi we mostly stayed in india when we about to move last one and half year before the expiry date of pr lock down happen because of corono and we stuck there
Hmm. The process would be interesting. The accompany rule is about you as a PR, accompanying the Canadian citizen, which in this case would be your spouse. But you spent most of the time outside of Canada, they will most likely extensively focus on whether who accompanied who to determine your physical presence. I would suggest you to contact a professional (like an immigration lawyer or consultant) before submitting your application.
It's not about COVID restrictions. You said you stayed mostly in India after you became a PR - that does not justify the delay for you coming to live here permanently. RO requires 2 years of physical presence in Canada in a rolling 5-year period. In my opinion that is quite generous. You had - from the words you provided - a 3-year buffer before COVID to come here and settle. Even though some personal circumstances might have limited your ability to come here, but COVID would not justify that buffer, especially for that long. This will be considered by IRCC once they open your file.
Again, you mentioned about living overseas with a Canadian spouse, they will most likely, extensively look into that to determine who accompanied whom. Since you submitted your application already (apologies for forgetting that in the previous post), and around April 27, you should receive your AOR soon from them, but do keep in mind of your circumstances here and expect some non-routine processing to happen.
Please look into @dpenabill 's post on this matter in the other thread, and seek professional advice if needed.
Above is my opinion based on what you said and shall not be treated as professional advice.
If you never established yourself with your family in Canada once you received PR it may be quite difficult to count the time together towards PR. As Canadian PRs and citizens there are very few places that wouldn’t let you return to Canada.
And . . . "I applied for pr renewal application it received the case processing center on 27 th aprail haven't heard anything yet"
It appears you were abroad when you made the PR card application, and are still abroad. This complicates things.
Generally the who-accompanied-whom question is NOT asked. Whether a PR is entitled to a credit toward meeting the PR Residency Obligation, for time abroad with a Canadian citizen spouse, USUALLY depends on proof the spouse is a Canadian citizen and that the couple were living together. BUT there are exceptions.
In particular, in some situations the who-accompanied-whom question itself can be a problem. I do not agree that it probably will be a problem but there is at least a significant risk it will be.
If, for example, you still had a valid PR card and traveled to Canada together with your family, arriving together at the Port-of-Entry, my sense is the odds would be good the border officials would not strictly apply the who-accompanied-whom element. There is a real risk otherwise, but trying to forecast probabilities is largely a speculative GUESSING game; nonetheless, if you arrive together that is likely to reduce the risks.
Similarly if your PR card is expired and you are able to travel together, as a family, and travel to Canada via the U.S. and able to then arrive at a land border crossing PoE into Canada, again together as a family. The odds of a favourable outcome are not as good as they would be if your PR card was still valid, but my GUESS is they would still be fairly good.
Otherwise, whether who-accompanied-whom is a problem for you DEPENDS on a lot of factors. @canuck78 and @BadGamer6 refer to some of the important factors. The most important factors are (1) the extent to which YOU were personally settled in Canada before moving abroad, and (2) how much time overall you have been IN Canada during the last five years.
As @BadGamer6 noted, there is extensive discussion of this issue in other topics. See this topic in particular: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/who-accompanied-whom-can-matter-for-prs-living-with-citizen-spouse-abroad-update.579860/ where there is an in-depth discussion together with citation and links for many sources regarding this.
BUT As I Have Noted, If In Fact You Have Already Applied For a New PR Card, That Complicates Things:
It appears you are still abroad. It appears that contrary to the instructions you applied for a new PR card while abroad. I cannot forecast how this will go for sure but the obvious RISK is that by doing this you were, in effect, waving a big red flag, more or less telling IRCC: "hey, screen me."
The good news is that even if you lose PR status, your spouse can sponsor you for PR again. Even though a citizen abroad can make that application, that probably would NOT be a good idea in your situation.
If your plans were to settle in Canada sooner rather than later, and if you are able to travel to Canada (such as via the U.S.), and you can do this before losing PR status, you could probably come and stay . . . stay pending an appeal if necessary . . . stay pending a new application for PR sponsored by your spouse if necessary.
There are additional angles potentially at play. The H&C element, for example. It can get complicated.
For now OBTAINING the ASSISTANCE of a LAWYER is probably a good idea. That can be difficult from abroad.
It is possible IRCC will issue a new PR card, but that seems doubtful. And even if they did, it seems even more unlikely that you could get the card without personally appearing to pick it up in person.
The more likely scenario, in processing the PR card application, is IRCC either proceeds with a formal RO compliance determination, which could result in a decision terminating your PR status, or IRCC refers the application to Secondary Review and it is in limbo unless and until you either apply for a PR Travel Document (to be avoided IF you can) or you arrive at a PoE seeking entry into Canada.
Thank you @dpenabill for the detailed analysis. I definitely agree with the applying abroad part, because the instruction specifically said apply within Canada, and that will complicate things to an unknown extent. And it's good to learn your perspective on the who-accompany-who credit.
What appears to be the biggest problem for the OP is 1)the application appeared to be made abroad and that's a huge red flag, and 2) the OP mentioned they spent most of the time abroad - I don't know if IRCC will look extensively into that. "Mostly" is a vague term, it can mean like 50% of the time, or even up to 100% of the time. The actual physical presence for the OP might be tremendously limited. These 2 factors combined, alone from the above-mentioned credit, I don't how much IRCC will weigh into their application. It's like a huge red flag plus another one on top of it.
And I definitely agree, seek legal advice as soon as you can, this is indeed a very complicated situation here.
Yeah, the situation looks problematic. There are many factors which can influence how this goes. The details matter. But there are indeed some glaring RED flags.
"Mostly" is indeed very imprecise. But that's the situation. There is a broad range in the probabilities. Again, the details matter. And how things go can vary a lot.
I am ordinarily reluctant to speculate much beyond what an individual actually reports. But my guess, just a GUESS, is this is a fairly common scenario:
Primary applicant for PR and accompanying family get PR visa, come to Canada to complete landing formalities, becoming PRs, but the primary applicant needs to continue employment or such back home. Spouse stays in Canada. Spouse qualifies for and obtains Canadian citizenship. Spouse then returns home to be with PR. PR expects the accompanying-citizen-spouse credit to apply so the PR keeps PR status.
I am not at all sure this is the scenario here. This just happens to be a common one.
And I am not at all sure how things go for PRs in this scenario. My sense is that it can and does vary. (I believe that traveling to Canada together, and returning to Canada sooner rather than later, improves the PR's odds of keeping PR status, but it is impossible to quantify those odds.)
In the meantime, even though there is NO exemption from enforcement of PR Residency Obligation because of Covid, that can be a big H&C factor, if and when the outcome depends on getting H&C relief for a breach of the RO. Which is to say, even if we knew many more details, how things can go, let alone how they will actually go, is complicated and very, very difficult to predict.
Undoubtedly a situation in which the OP could use help from a lawyer.
EDIT to ADD a note that the OP may learn more once the PR card application is opened and in process.