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Help needed to complete IMM 5444E

Rustamjan

Star Member
Dec 9, 2013
63
0
Dear friends,

Thank you for valuable recommendations. I have started collecting documents to prove physican presence in Canada as well as completing application forms.

Can you please assist in completing some below items of the IMM5444E:


21. What do I need to write under "Periods to be assessed" ?

22. Situation 1 "Absences while accompanying a family member who is Canadian citizen"

Situation 2 "Absences while employed by Canadian business or Government outside of Canada"

Situation 3 "Absences while accompanying a Canadian PR family member who is employed by Canadian company outside of Canada"



I have been outside of Canada because of my mother's health started worsening. Non of the above would apply to me.

Please advise.
 

ramkris

Hero Member
Apr 17, 2010
662
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21. last 5 yrs from date of application like if you are applying on 1-jan-2016 then its 1-jan-2011 to 1-jan-2016

22. did you stayed 795 days in canada if so dont fill 22

if you are not stayed 795 days wait for your physical presence to complete more than 795 days keep sum buffer
 

Rustamjan

Star Member
Dec 9, 2013
63
0
Dear friends,

Do I have to complete separate IMM 5444 and 5455 for each family member (wife and children under 18) ?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,284
3,046
Rustamjan said:
Dear friends,

Do I have to complete separate IMM 5444 and 5455 for each family member (wife and children under 18) ?
My understanding is that a separate application needs to be made for each individual . . . note, for example, that the signature block for the application itself has a box for a parent or legal guardian to sign "if applicable."




By the way, not sure what the reference to 795 is in the response by ramkris; I suspect a typo and 730 was intended.


Nonetheless, my response to first post in this topic:

Rustamjan said:
Can you please assist in completing some below items of the IMM5444E:


21. What do I need to write under "Periods to be assessed" ?
The "To" date (YYYY-MM-DD) should be the date on the day before you make the application. Thus, if you sign the application as of January 10, 2016, the "To" date should be "2016-01-09."

The from date is precisely five years previous, "2011-01-10."

In practice many are not so precise, and for example some will state the "To" date to be the same as the date of application, and "From" date the same date but five years previous. As in From 2011-01-10 / To 2016-01-10, for an application signed January 10, 2016. (Minor variations like this are of no import.)


Rustamjan said:
22. Situation 1 "Absences while accompanying a family member who is Canadian citizen"

Situation 2 "Absences while employed by Canadian business or Government outside of Canada"

Situation 3 "Absences while accompanying a Canadian PR family member who is employed by Canadian company outside of Canada"

I have been outside of Canada because of my mother's health started worsening. Non of the above would apply to me.

Please advise.
Foremost, you have indicated that you will not be absent for 1095 days or more (within the preceding five years) at the time of applying. This is based on your presence for 770 days within the preceding five years:

Rustamjan said:
By January 10-15, 2015, we will have more than 770 days of physical presence in Canada, for which I can provide various proof (from work, volunteering, school, appartment rent, etc.).
1825 minus the 770 days present, equals less than 1095 days absent.

Even if you applied today, your report indicates more than 730 days presence, which means less than 1095 days absent.

Thus, you should not need to complete part D item 22 ("Residency Obligation -- Time Spent Outside Canada")

Typically you would enter "N/A" somewhere in each of the three boxes under the respectively numbered situations.


If for some reason you are applying with more than 1095 days absence within the preceding five years:

As observed, since (apparently, as you have reported), you were the subject of a 44(1) Report but not a departure order, constituting an adjudication of your status, with the result that you were allowed to retain PR status based on H&C reasons (and this appears to be confirmed by the successful sponsorship of the child born abroad), you should be eligible for a new PR card notwithstanding falling short of the 730 days presence obligation, you may have elected to apply for a new PR card without waiting to pass the 730 days presence threshold.

If for some reason that is the case for one or more of your family applying for a new PR card, and they intend to go ahead and make the application without waiting (note that I have been among those above who suggested the prudence of waiting even if technically it is not necessary), then the instructions say to complete item D.22. Assuming none of the three situations are applicable, then enter "none" or "N/A" as appropriate in the boxes except the boxes in for total number of days, and there enter "0" (or hand write "zero").

You might add an additional page with "RESIDENCY OBLIGATION / HUMANITARIAN AND COMPASSIONATE GROUNDS" typed across the top, large font, in bold. And on that page briefly outline the H&C grounds and reference the POE assessment regarding your situation.

This additional page is probably NOT necessary.

The instructions state:

"If you are unable to meet the residency obligation, CIC will consider any compelling humanitarian and compassionate factors in your individual circumstances that may justify the retention of permanent resident status.

CIC will notify you if this additional assessment is required."


And since the sponsorship of your child born abroad was successful, so long as there has not been more than a brief absence in the meantime, the odds are very good that IRCC will readily note the previous H&C determination without the additional page.

The instructions for the PR card application do not explicitly allow for adding pages or documents not specified or part of the application. Rather, if more room is needed for an item, the instructions say to print another copy of the page of the application containing that item, complete it, and submit that. But for someone applying based being eligible, as in compliance with the PR RO pursuant to H&C grounds, it might help to affirmatively include some statement as to this.


OVERALL OBSERVATION:

Unless there have been some significant absences since arriving back in Canada January 2014, my sense (for what my sense is worth . . . I am NO expert) is that you really should not encounter much difficulty. It appears you were just a little short of being in compliance with the PR RO at the time you came to Canada to live. This should go fairly smoothly.

Obviously, if there have been significant absences in the meantime, that changes the dynamics.

But your situation appears to be within range for little or no difficulty, since your other posts indicate you are in compliance, and the overall circumstances of this are actually well within fairly common situations -- even without compelling H&C grounds, many new immigrants take well over two years, often close to three, more than a few slipping past the three year mark, to actually get settled in Canada.
 

ramkris

Hero Member
Apr 17, 2010
662
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NEW DELHI
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App. Filed.......
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26-Sep-2013
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its a typo error 730 days not 795 days.
 

cnccnc

Full Member
Dec 21, 2015
24
0
Dpenabill do you recommend applying for PR renewals if you have met the RO slightly over having clocked 750 days of physical presence in 5 yr period with some travel history (attending to aged parents) even in last two years of having fully settled down?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,284
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Rustamjan said:
Dear friends,

Do I have complete forms 5444 and 5455 for my children under 18 years old ?
While a telephone call to the call centre should readily confirm, as I responded above, my understanding is yes.

The signature box provides a space for the parent to sign on behalf of a dependent minor.

If the applicant (for PR card) is 14 to 18, the child and one parent (or legal guardian) must sign the application.

If the child is less than 14 years old, a parent (or legal guardian) signs the application on behalf of the child.

Again, if you are not sure, telephone the call centre.
 

Rustamjan

Star Member
Dec 9, 2013
63
0
Thank you dpenabill very much.

According to the form 5444, a birth certificate for the person under 18 should be provided. Please help me understand. My children have PR cards. Do I have to include copies of their birth certificates as well in my submission package ? They are not born in Canada
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,284
3,046
cnccnc said:
Dpenabill do you recommend applying for PR renewals if you have met the RO slightly over having clocked 750 days of physical presence in 5 yr period with some travel history (attending to aged parents) even in last two years of having fully settled down?
I often make suggestions but rarely make recommendations . . . I am no expert and I am not qualified to offer personal advice. To the extent I have made recommendations, either that was for something obvious (like do not apply for citizenship before meeting the requirements), or I was being sloppy in the way I made what should have been merely a suggestion (like suggesting waiting to apply for a PR card until being in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation).

When to make an application for a PR card is a personal decision dependent on individual circumstances, all the attendant circumstances among which days present in Canada within the preceding five years is but one . . . a key one, yes, but there are many other factors.

The only definitive guideline is that the PR needs to be in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation to be eligible for a new or replacement card. Beyond that, a PR who has his or her SIN card, a provincial driver's license, provincial health care coverage, and has no plans to travel abroad, does not really need a PR card . . . with some more or less obvious exceptions, such as a student needing to document status.

As a general observation, involving some speculation, for PRs who have barely met the PR RO I suspect there is a significant risk of elevated scrutiny and thus the more pressing concern is having documentation as to presence in Canada for the time period declared to be present. Waiting to build a margin after the PR card expires may not really help much. But, again, this observation involves a bit of speculation on my part. CIC has historically not been very transparent as to what triggers Residency Determinations in PR card application cases.

As for potential H&C considerations for a PR who is in compliance with the PR RO, but not by a lot, unfortunately I suspect (do not really know), that the risk of non-routine processing is the same . . . the H&C considerations do not come into play unless the PR has less than 730 days presence.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,284
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Rustamjan said:
Thank you dpenabill very much.

According to the form 5444, a birth certificate for the person under 18 should be provided. Please help me understand. My children have PR cards. Do I have to include copies of their birth certificates as well in my submission package ? They are not born in Canada
I noticed this in the instructions and wondered about it. All I can suggest is to follow the instructions as best you understand them. Here again, you can telephone the call centre and inquire about this. My guess is that this is to confirm the parent's relationship to the child but I do not really know.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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Additional Note: if you submit any document that is not in English or in French, be sure to include a translation as prescribed in the instructions. (Such as a foreign birth certificate.)
 

ramkris

Hero Member
Apr 17, 2010
662
17
Category........
Visa Office......
NEW DELHI
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
16-Aug-2013
File Transfer...
13-Sep-2013
Med's Done....
1-Aug-2013
Passport Req..
26-Sep-2013
VISA ISSUED...
19-Apr-2014
LANDED..........
soon
To replace a PR card, follow the same steps to apply for a permanent resident card. You will need to provide the same documents, including photographs, and pay the $50 fee.

In the documents check list it says If this applies to you,

Birth certificate doesnt apply to you as it was not issued by canadian government

you may include school records if they r going to school







Rustamjan said:
Thank you dpenabill very much.

According to the form 5444, a birth certificate for the person under 18 should be provided. Please help me understand. My children have PR cards. Do I have to include copies of their birth certificates as well in my submission package ? They are not born in Canada
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,284
3,046
ramkris said:
To replace a PR card, follow the same steps to apply for a permanent resident card. You will need to provide the same documents, including photographs, and pay the $50 fee.

In the documents check list it says If this applies to you,

Birth certificate doesnt apply to you as it was not issued by canadian government

you may include school records if they r going to school


I am no expert, as I have said, but to be clear, my reading of document checklist items for individuals under the age of 18:

Foremost, the "if this applies to you" section of the document checklist contains two items referring to to those who are under the age of 18 (the other two refer to those who were outside Canada more than 1095 days, requiring proof of residency to be included, and those who have made a legal change of name).

In addition to a photocopy of school records (which I read to be mandatory not optional), the document checklist says to include, again for an applicant who is under the age of 18, "a photocopy of your birth certificate, adoption order or legal guardianship document issued by a Canadian court."

Canadian courts do not issue birth certificates, so the clause "issued by a Canadian court" probably refers to a guardianship document. Again, my guess is that one of these three documents is required in order to show the relationship between the parent or guardian signing for a child under 14, or co-signing for a child between 14 and 18. Thus, unless the child is adopted, or a legal guardian is signing the application, the birth certificate is required, and my sense is this is to show the relationship between the parent signing for the applicant, and the applicant. For an adopted child this would require including the adoption order. If the application is being signed by a legal guardian, then this requires a copy of the order of guardianship issued by a Canadian court (since a foreign order would not be valid in Canada unless and until a Canadian court also granted a guardianship order).

Moreover, a child with a birth certificate issued by the Canadian government would be a Canadian citizen and not eligible for a PR card.

In particular, my reading is that for an applicant under the age of 18 both items must be included, that is that both a birth certificate and school records are required. My sense is that the school records are required to show residency in Canada.
 

ramkris

Hero Member
Apr 17, 2010
662
17
Category........
Visa Office......
NEW DELHI
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
16-Aug-2013
File Transfer...
13-Sep-2013
Med's Done....
1-Aug-2013
Passport Req..
26-Sep-2013
VISA ISSUED...
19-Apr-2014
LANDED..........
soon
he may include the birthcertificate while applied for original PR card.or a copy of passport whch may include all details. In somecases embassies can issue birthcertificate based on passport details