Getting social insurance number for my spouse

[clim2009]

My girlfriend is an American citizen and we are going to get married this July of 2013.

I understand that her application for permanent residency will take time... so I would just like to know if she can get a SIN card so that she can work while her application is still being processed. And what documents would she need?

 

[amikety]

No, she cannot get a SIN until she has her PR.

She will need a work permit. That's a lot harder to get than you may think.

 

[clim2009]

so... she is eligible for work permit even if she will be applying for permanent residency?

Me: Canadian citizen
Her: US citizen

Cuz im looking at the CIC website here...

w w w.cic.gc.ca/english/work/arriving.asp#a4

Your spouse working in Canada

Spouses or common-law partners who want to work while in Canada must apply for their own work permit. Normally, they must meet the same requirements as you, including obtaining (if required) a labour market opinion from Human Resources and Skills Development Canada.

However, your spouse or common-law partner may be eligible to apply for an “open” work permit that will allow her or him to accept any job with any employer if:

You are authorized to work in Canada for six months or longer and the work you are doing while you live in Canada meets a minimum skill level (usually work that would require at least a college diploma). Specifically, your job must be listed in Skill Level 0, A or B in the National Occupational Classification.

Note: If you are the holder of a Post-Graduation Work Permit, which is a type of open work permit, your spouse will need to attach a copy of your work permit to his or her application for an open work permit. Your spouse will also need to provide information about your employment by attaching supporting documents, including:
A letter from your current employer confirming employment or a copy of your employment offer or contract; AND
A copy of one of your pay slips.

Or

You are authorized to work in Canada and your spouse or common-law partner is eligible for a work permit through an active pilot project. Find out more.

In each case, your spouse's permit will be valid no longer than yours.

so... since I'm a canadian citizen I am authorized to work in this country... means she can get a work permit in the meantime while her permanent resident application (I am sponsoring her after we get married) is being processed?

 

[amikety]

The link you posted if only for Skilled Temporary Workers and/or recently graduated International Students with certain NOC codes. In order to get the OWP, the spouse must hold a valid Closed Work Permit or Post Graduate Work Permit and submit proof of their work permit and NOC code to CIC with the OWP application.

The only ways she can work while waiting PR are:
- Inland application with open work permit application included, fees for OWP paid at same time as PR fees (well you can technically send the OWP later, but it slows things down). After Stage 1 - about six months - she will be eligible for a work permit. Inland has some cons to the process, however, so do your research thoroughly before picking it.

- Obtaining a LMO from an employer and getting a closed work permit for only that employer. LMOs are rather difficult to get. There aren't many and most employers won't even consider a LMO. (Labout Market Opinion). You're welcome to pursue this option, but don't be surprised if it flops. There's a few certain jobs that give LMOs regularly, such as live-in nanny, fast food cashiers, and some semi-skilled trades like welder, cook, depending on the province. There are always many more applicants than positions available for a LMO. Kijiji is filled with people seeking a LMO and few jobs offering. However, if you're well connected or she gets lucky, it could work out. Just don't rely on this for income because it's not reliable. (And just because an employer says yes to the LMO - that doesn't mean the LMO will be approved by the government.)

- The LMO can be bypassed if she qualifies as NAFTA exempt. For the life of me, I can't find the link I need, but here is CIC's page about it. Only certain professions are applicable - almost all require a university education or higher, but just having a bachelor's degree isn't enough: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/work/special-business.asp

It looks like there is a link on this page to the NAFTA list. It's also a little tricky, as in order to be allowed to work, you must first have arranged employment. This usually requires the foreigner to do some serious educating to their prospective employers about the NAFTA process (although some are very familiar with it). However, if she does qualify for NAFTA - that's great. There are some great benefits to the program.

Just trust me on this one as an American in Canada for 18 months. We aren't allowed an OWP. I went over and over this with Immigration and begged and pleaded until the cows came home. I tried to dig up anything I could find to make my case. We aren't eligible for open work permits just because we're married to a Canadian. I'll leave out how I feel about this personally (it's stupid) (most Canadians I've met think I should be able to work freely) (it's really stupid) (most people think I AM Canadian!) (it's really really stupid) but I understand why CIC does it...

Please forgive me if there's any glaring spelling mistakes or typos. We have a chinook coming in and I feel like my head is in a very tight vice grip....

 

[clim2009]

Thank you so much for your help. Follow up question...

She is coming here in April of 2013 and then we are getting married in July of 2013.

From what I understand, visitors from USA are allowed in Canada without a visa and must leave the country within 180 days. So technically if she comes here in April... she needs to get out of canada end of october if we arent marrying.

But since we are getting married in July... and the application to petition her to stay in Canada would take some time... can her stay here be extended? And it looks like she doesn't need to go back to USA until her permanent residency status is approved...

Just making sure I understood the immigration website correctly:
w w w.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/extend-stay.asp

Becoming a permanent resident of Canada

If you wish to stay in Canada as a permanent resident, you must leave the country and apply from outside Canada, except in the special circumstances listed below. To become a permanent resident, you must meet the requirements for immigration to Canada.

You can apply to become a permanent resident from inside Canada if:

you are a refugee or a protected person
you are a spouse or common-law partner of a Canadian citizen or permanent resident
you are a live-in caregiver
you hold a valid Temporary Residence Permit or
you are applying under the Canadian Experience Class.

So if she has application for permanent residence pending means she dont need to go back to USA?

 

[amikety]

Yes, that is one way.

First, it doesn't matter if she's married to a Canadian or not. If she doesn't maintain status, she'll have to leave.

Second, she can extend her stay online or by going to the border. I do mine online. I get issued a fancy piece of paper called a Visitor's Record. I needed it to open my bank account and get my healthcare (in Alberta, most other provinces aren't as nice). My current VR is valid for one year! It costs $75 and she can do it online if you don't want to go the border or it's too far to drive.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/extend-stay.asp

Third, your wife can apply either Inland or Outland for her landed immigrant status - PR. She can stay with you inside Canada and apply Outland. It's usually faster. I'd read Leon's thread about sponsoring your spouse (pinned to top of Family Class) for a great detailed list of pros and cons. You will have to sign a sponsorship agreement. If she applies Inland, she can stay if she also applies for the Open Work permit.

Here is what I would - First, get the FBI check in process before the wedding by about a month. It can take 5-6 weeks. Have it mailed to your home in care of you.

Wait to do the medical until a) she's in Canada (it's cheaper, holy cow it's cheaper); b) and until almost everything else is done. Medicals are valid for one year.

Fill out forms while waiting on marriage certificate to come in. Mail application as soon as it does.

Now Inland Versus Outland - our main Visa office closed this year and a new office opened. They just began to issue COPR (Confirmation of Permanent Resident) in November. We don't know yet how fast they actually are. I would wait until the last minute/your medical (although with the new e system, maybe it won't matter anymore) and check the forum.

It used to be our old visa office processed most PRs in 7 months. So it was beneficial to apply Outland. Hopefully by July, we'll have a better idea of how fast our new office seems to be (on average).

However, in the end, it's your choice and you should do what is best for you

 

[clim2009]

I just phoned canada border services and citizenship / immigration...

What I was told is that canada border officer would have to be satisfied that you are gonna leave canada at the end of your stay / visit.

w w w .cic.gc.ca/english/visit/apply-who.asp
...satisfy an immigration officer that you will leave Canada at the end of your visit...

And since she is US citizen her max stay is 180 days.

Running this scenario in my head...

"so you plan to visit your boyfriend for 6 months? Isnt that too long? Dont you have a school or work back home?"

So... can she tell that to border officer? 6 months stay from april to sep? To make the most of it cuz its a long drive from north carolina...

Think that is a good reason?

Sorry if this question might sound stupid. Im just anxious with all this border crossing stuff.

 

[amikety]

You can do one of two things -

1) Say yes, she's planning to stay six months, then 'change your mind' afterwards. This isn't exactly ethnical... but you're completely allowed.

2) Bring proof of the PR application in progress - receipt for the PR fees is usually the best option. Tell the IO you're sponsoring her and want her to stay with you while the application is in process. Historically, IOs haven't cared if it's Inland or Outland and given Visitor's Records to candidates. You can pay the PR fees before returning to Canada online and print out the receipt. It doesn't matter that you won't be married for a few more months. CIC will hang on to them.

Just make sure she's "visiting" and not "moving." If you're there doing the talking, it's better because there's living proof of that Canadian spouse that will sponsor

My opinion is #2. Completely honest and there's a chance of getting a VR with a year or more validity.

Now, does this always work. No, of course not. There are times when the IO had a bad day or the visitor said the 'wrong thing.' (Or showed up with a U-Haul full of stuff and expected to be admitted!) If you read through the US Outland thread, you'll see lots of people sharing their experiences crossing the USA/Canada border with spouses or alone and most are positive. (http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/us-outland-applicants-thread-t106068.0.html)

Just a word about the Call Centre - You call them, you'll get 100 different answers to 1 question. They are call center agents, just like at your local bank. They aren't legal experts. They have things they're supposed to say. When you ask a question here, you're going to get real life experiences from people who have been through the process. So take what the Call Centre says with a grain of salt. They're a great resource, but don't often have experience in the practical application of immigration.

Soooooo a PR cannot overstay. They are legally allowed to live permanently in Canada. If you're sponsoring her for PR, while you're sponsoring her to stay forever. In that line of thinking, you don't technically (used loosely!) need to prove she's leaving. Americans and other visa exempt citizens are usually given the benefit of the doubt - if we're admissible to Canada, they think we're usually okay and can stay. Also, there's a thing called dual intent - visit yet remain permanently. It applies to students, temporary workers, and visitors being sponsored. You're allowed to have it. I wouldn't go quoting that off to the IO unless they asked - but anyway, dual intent is okay too. (For the record, I'm not that smart, all of that I learned from other posters, mostly Leon.)

 

[AnaMaria]

What I was told is that canada border officer would have to be satisfied that you are gonna leave canada at the end of your stay / visit.
And since she is US citizen her max stay is 180 days.

She will need strong ties to her home country, i.e. employment, house/condo lease, family, etc. And don't bring too much of her stuff, try to make it minimum.

 

[clim2009]

New thought fueling my anxiety on this whole thing just entered my mind...

So the plan is... in April I cross the border to USA to pick her up. And then a day or two later come up the border into Canada with her in the front seat and her stuff in the back seat. Because we plan to stay together before getting married IN CANADA on July of 2013. So... technically there is no marriage certificate and as a result, no PR application in progress.

So I'm wondering how the border official will take the answer of... "We are getting married in July and filing PR application later..."

From what I got when I phoned CIC... I was told that the border official is looking out for people who might overstay. So if she and I are getting married she HAS REASON to overstay. Even if she got parents and an address in the USA and a bank account.

I dunno if we should just make it look like "hey Im just with my american girlfriend here visiting canada and she'll be back in the USA after 6 months..." which is LYING... (when her wedding dress can be found with her cuz she already bought it)... And sorry I am uncomfortable being a liar.

Or... get married in canada and then she go back to the USA to file PR application from USA? That doesn't seem to make sense. Why have her go back to USA just to file PR application?

/sigh I dunno.

Sorry for all the anxiety.

 

[amikety]

New thought fueling my anxiety on this whole thing just entered my mind...

So the plan is... in April I cross the border to USA to pick her up. And then a day or two later come up the border into Canada with her in the front seat and her stuff in the back seat. Because we plan to stay together before getting married IN CANADA on July of 2013. So... technically there is no marriage certificate and as a result, no PR application in progress.

So I'm wondering how the border official will take the answer of... "We are getting married in July and filing PR application later..."

From what I got when I phoned CIC... I was told that the border official is looking out for people who might overstay. So if she and I are getting married she HAS REASON to overstay. Even if she got parents and an address in the USA and a bank account.

I dunno if we should just make it look like "hey Im just with my american girlfriend here visiting canada and she'll be back in the USA after 6 months..." which is LYING... (when her wedding dress can be found with her cuz she already bought it)... And sorry I am uncomfortable being a liar.

Or... get married in canada and then she go back to the USA to file PR application from USA? That doesn't seem to make sense. Why have her go back to USA just to file PR application?

/sigh I dunno.

Sorry for all the anxiety.

What kind of stuff are you refering to? Depending on what you bring, it might be worse.

 

[clim2009]

What kind of stuff are you refering to? Depending on what you bring, it might be worse.

2 boxes and 25 hangers with clothes on them.

 

[amikety]

2 boxes and 25 hangers with clothes on them.

That probably won't be so bad. So here's the deal - every time she crosses the border, it is a risk - but a small one.

You being there with her will lessen that risk.

You can tell them the complete truth. People have posted their experiences doing just that and entered Canada. Or it could backfire... So just tell them she's coming to visit you to see if she likes Canada.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

New thought fueling my anxiety on this whole thing just entered my mind...

So the plan is... in April I cross the border to USA to pick her up. And then a day or two later come up the border into Canada with her in the front seat and her stuff in the back seat. Because we plan to stay together before getting married IN CANADA on July of 2013. So... technically there is no marriage certificate and as a result, no PR application in progress.

So I'm wondering how the border official will take the answer of... "We are getting married in July and filing PR application later..."

From what I got when I phoned CIC... I was told that the border official is looking out for people who might overstay. So if she and I are getting married she HAS REASON to overstay. Even if she got parents and an address in the USA and a bank account.

I dunno if we should just make it look like "hey Im just with my american girlfriend here visiting canada and she'll be back in the USA after 6 months..." which is LYING... (when her wedding dress can be found with her cuz she already bought it)... And sorry I am uncomfortable being a liar.

Or... get married in canada and then she go back to the USA to file PR application from USA? That doesn't seem to make sense. Why have her go back to USA just to file PR application?

/sigh I dunno.

Sorry for all the anxiety.

You don't need to be married to sponsor her for PR. If you qualify as common-law, your best bet is simply to apply for her PR now. There is virtually no difference in how immigration looks at a common-law partner application vs. a spousal application. If you have an application already in process when she enters Canada, you will have an easier time crossing the border. You will be able to tell them you're getting married and will live in Canada if the PR is approved, and that you will extend her tourist visa beyond the 6 months while the PR application is processing. As long as you know she isn't allowed to work at all and has to leave Canada if the PR application is refused. It means not having to lie . They might ask for proof that you can support her the entire time, as she won't be able to work. It's best to be honest because if they find out later that you lied, they can refuse the application completely. So my advice: APPLY NOW

 

[clim2009]

Re: Applying now...

1) I just changed jobs as of January of this year. I wonder how CIC will look at that... I'm just starting a job and it pays about $25k a year. I'm NOT on welfare or receiving govt assistance. And I have about $15k in savings. And I understand theres no income requirement for spousal sponsorship and all they look at is that she wont be on welfare.

2) Applying for a common law relationship from what I understand is more difficult to prove. I met this girl online. We have talked alot on skype and instant messaging. Since October of 2011. I haven't met this girl in person yet. And I looked at the forms it needs an attached marriage certificate. To prove common law relationship... I have all the skype logs and instant messaging logs saved... would that be enough?

I swear... 80-90% of the time Im not at work I am talking to her. And even when I'm at work I would try my best to communicate with her via txt messages. And it has been like that since 2011. Its already 2013 and the love we have for each other has only grown.

________________

And another question about getting through canadian border... I just phoned canada border and I asked em if seeing a wedding dress in her possession would raise a red flag. They said "YES". And she might be denied at the border because of the following 2 reasons:
1) lack of proof of ties to USA (she lives with her parents and no school no job.)
2) lack of financial capability to support herself for 6 months (6 months is the planned stay and she has $500 in the bank).

So I dunno... I am scared she will be denied at the border. And I'm really getting anxious and stressed out over this. Because I love her and I wanna spend the rest of my life with her. The love we have for each other is genuine and everyone can see it. Her parents, my parents, and the pastor whom we have had marriage counselling (via skype... pastor licensed to sign marriage certificate in ONTARIO, CANADA) with.

This is frustrating.